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Pre-unit numbering question #332433
09/08/10 4:40 pm
09/08/10 4:40 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US


Just got home from a long road trip to pick up a badly neglected Triumph. Now it's home, and I need to figure out what I have. The numbers on the frame and engine are D9824, which should place the bike as a '61 model year, but the motor is also stamped as a T120R, which I don't see in the model chart until '63.



I do have a lot of questions and I'm hoping for some help on this one. I've done a few Triumph unit (dry frame) builds, but haven't done a pre-unit build before. The bike has a lot of nice parts, but it's missing a few as well. I have a good front end, rear wheel and seat for it, so it should be a decent project to get back to stock.

I did notice that the bike has had a nine bolt top end put on it, and of course it isn't a bonneville head, but I think I have both eight bolt and nine bolt dual carb top ends stashed away somewhere, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Any thoughts on the numbering? Comments? Tips?
Thanks!

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Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332449
09/08/10 5:39 pm
09/08/10 5:39 pm
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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T120R is correct for a U.S. model Bonneville of that year.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jon W. Whitley] #332477
09/08/10 8:33 pm
09/08/10 8:33 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
T120R is correct for a U.S. model Bonneville of that year.

Thanks Jon. Appreciate it. Another quick question; Does this model have ribbed fenders? The rear is there, but cut off, and the front is missing. The rear is ribbed.

Also, you wouldn't happen to have any extra parts for these bikes? Like perhaps the tool box/battery box cover?

Appreciate the help!

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332505
09/08/10 10:22 pm
09/08/10 10:22 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 918
hampshire, england
T
t120mike Offline
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Congratulations Jim; you are now officially poor!
My Bonneville is D4661, and was in a dreadful state when I got it so I know EXACTLY where you are!
Obviously you will want to source as much as you can from the States to minimise shipping costs, but if you are ever stuck the you need Ace Classics in London tel 0044 20 8698 4273. Google them. Cliff and Kevin!
They specialise in pre-unit Triumph twins and have a comprehensive stock to the point where they can build a complete machine out of parts. I lost my toolbox cover on a ride out and it was run over. Ace Classics supplied a newly manufactured item which fitted perfectly and was reasonably priced.
The only things I think are difficult to source are the light switch assembly under the seat and the rear brake light switch.
Good luck!


mike
Member #: 147
1960 T120 Bonneville
1999 H*%^a VFR 800 FI
V4 Triton Project (still keeping me sane (Ha-Ha!))
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332518
09/08/10 11:11 pm
09/08/10 11:11 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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I also recommend Ace.

Looks like you have the original Chronometric instruments. They can be quite pricey if they are missing.

The front fender is ALLOY and not ribbed. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Dynamically balance the engine. You'll be happy you did.

The original colors, Sky Blue and silver are very nice.

Here's my '61 back in about 1975. Yes, the front brake was useless


Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332520
09/08/10 11:23 pm
09/08/10 11:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Minnesota, US
Thanks for the comments, Mike. I was wondering about that light switch. Still don't know where it goes. There is a hole on the top of the battery box that the PO has a toggle switch mounted in, so I suppose that must be where the real switch goes. Seems like a strange switch location. Sure would be nice if someone would post a picture. grin

I was also wondering about the center stand. Got the bike up on the lift and was looking at the center stand mount:



What's the center fixture for, the one sitting on the jack? Also, there's a little swinging hook shaped device on the left mount. Looks more complicated than a regular center stand mount.

Appreciate the help!

Jim

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: HawaiianTiger] #332526
09/08/10 11:51 pm
09/08/10 11:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: HawaiianTiger
I also recommend Ace.

Looks like you have the original Chronometric instruments. They can be quite pricey if they are missing.

The front fender is ALLOY and not ribbed. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Bill


Nice bike Bill. Ceriani front end? Don't suppose you still have it? Your modifications back then were seriously more tasteful than the ones done on mine! Oh well, at least the goofball PO didn't butcher the frame! grin

Yeah, the chrono's were a big reason I bought the bike. They actually look to be in very nice shape, but haven't tested them yet.

An Alloy front fender? Not ribbed? Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed that. Was it just the Bonneville that had that fender? I assume the rear fender was ribbed?

Thanks for the info.

I did send an email to Ace asking for a quote on a number of parts.

Jim

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332563
09/09/10 4:27 am
09/09/10 4:27 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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The jack is on the sidecar lug. Don't lose that swinging hook thing. That attaches the centerstand spring and it must go in before you re-install the gearbox. Most folks only do that once.;) The stud and nut on the sidecar lug is for the muffler braces that most folks don't even know about.
The headlight switch goes in a bracket that clamps around the front of the seatpost downtube right under the rear of the gas tank. Awkward to say the least. Last time I asked, Ace had these.
Sparx now makes a repro tail light switch but the quality is not as good as the original, unfortunately. A NOS one will set you back 80-100$ if you can find one.
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 09/09/10 4:30 am.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332586
09/09/10 10:43 am
09/09/10 10:43 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,802
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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The rear fender is ribbed. They look similar to the earlier swing-arm fenders but have a recessed area (dimple) so to say for the swing-arm lug.


Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
[quote=HawaiianTiger] I assume the rear fender was ribbed? Jim


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: HawaiianTiger] #332608
09/09/10 3:10 pm
09/09/10 3:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: HawaiianTiger
The jack is on the sidecar lug. Don't lose that swinging hook thing. That attaches the centerstand spring and it must go in before you re-install the gearbox. Most folks only do that once.;) The stud and nut on the sidecar lug is for the muffler braces that most folks don't even know about.

Interesting stuff. Thanks Bill and Jon. So there is a bracket that goes under the frame to the stud from both mufflers? Don't suppose anyone has a picture of that arrangement? Sounds a bit strange.

Appreciate the help!

Jim

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332653
09/09/10 7:51 pm
09/09/10 7:51 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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It's two brackets for every pre unit swing arm bike with low exhaust. Different part nos. for SDT frame vs. Duplex. They are twisted 90 degrees and attach to the mufflers clamps. Essential for an exhaust system that doesn't break brackets and wallow out exhaust port stubs in the head.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: HawaiianTiger] #332659
09/09/10 8:41 pm
09/09/10 8:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: HawaiianTiger
It's two brackets for every pre unit swing arm bike with low exhaust. Different part nos. for SDT frame vs. Duplex. They are twisted 90 degrees and attach to the mufflers clamps. Essential for an exhaust system that doesn't break brackets and wallow out exhaust port stubs in the head.
Bill

Thanks Bill. Nice picture.

Do you know if the center stand for these late pre-units is unique? I have a number of spare stands, but none fit, and with the little hook shaped thing that the spring attaches to, I'm not familiar with them at all.

Jim

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332676
09/09/10 10:12 pm
09/09/10 10:12 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
Jim,

There are at least three different centerstands for pre-units that I know of. Two for SDT bikes and another for the duplex framed bikes. the easiest way to tell is the lifting lever. On the first couple of years of SDT bikes the lifting lever was no longer that three inches. Then, a longer lever was added for more leverage. It exits the stand proper just above the foot of the left leg. Duplex ones have the lifting lever exit about 3 1/2 inches from the lowest point of the leg. There might be others that I am not aware of but the majority of them are as descrbed. Later centerstands are much longer.
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 09/09/10 10:13 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: HawaiianTiger] #332790
09/10/10 1:39 pm
09/10/10 1:39 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: HawaiianTiger
Jim,

There are at least three different centerstands for pre-units that I know of. Two for SDT bikes and another for the duplex framed bikes.

Oh goodie. You wouldn't happen to have a picture of a duplex version, would you?

P.S. "SDT bikes"? Single Down Tube?

Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332824
09/10/10 6:46 pm
09/10/10 6:46 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,601
Maui Hawaii
"SDT bikes"? Single Down Tube? Correct.

Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pre-unit numbering question [Re: Jim Hultman] #332865
09/10/10 10:11 pm
09/10/10 10:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,429
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Jim Hultman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,429
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Bill

You're a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks!

Jim


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