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whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? #327931
08/13/10 1:17 am
08/13/10 1:17 am
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 462
West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Matt smith Offline OP
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Matt smith  Offline OP
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West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
As some of you may recall, I reported that the previous owner of my 72 Bonneville had the frame sand blasted and powder coated - only he didnt tape odd the openings, so there was blasting media sticking to the old oil.

I had the front wheel off the bike, so I lowered it down to level out the top portion of the oil bearing frame so that I could fill it with degreaser. I let it soak for weeks, occasionally brushing the inside with a long flexible brush attached to a drill. Anyway, I drained it today and flushed it several times. I think it's pretty clean now, but I want the best filtration possible for the oil. I saw a ribbed filter that comes on a finned base plated from Steadfast for 80 bucks. Any other thoughts or ideas?

Check out the pictures of the muck on my blog:
http://meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com/2010/08/project-72-bonnie-update.html


meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com
smokeandthrottle.blogspot.com
Triumphs and BSA's, a few... I'm a hoarder.


“I don’t mind the Ten Commandments, I believe in the Ten Commandments. The first one, ‘I am the Lord thy God,’ is a great commandment—if it’s not said by the wrong people.”

—Bob Dylan, introducing the song “Masters of War” at New York City Town Hall, 12 April 1963.
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Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Matt smith] #327932
08/13/10 1:38 am
08/13/10 1:38 am
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Posts: 3,732
gastonia nc
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raf940 Offline
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raf940  Offline
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gastonia nc
IMHO....MAP type that uses Triumph Triple-type filters..i like mine.


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando project
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Matt smith] #327933
08/13/10 1:39 am
08/13/10 1:39 am
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Posts: 3,732
gastonia nc
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raf940 Offline
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gastonia nc
THAT TOOL LOOKS KINKY


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando project
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: raf940] #327973
08/13/10 10:05 am
08/13/10 10:05 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,945
Asheville, NC
Mike Baker Offline
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Mike Baker  Offline
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Asheville, NC
If that 72 were mine.....
When I thought the oil tank was clean, I'd clean it 2 more times.

Mike

Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Mike Baker] #327975
08/13/10 10:39 am
08/13/10 10:39 am
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 462
West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Matt smith Offline OP
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Matt smith  Offline OP
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West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Mike- I'm going to clean it several more times. In fact I plan on cleaning it continuously until I get the rest of the bike sorted out which could be a while. Oh and yes, that tool is straight out of a Borat film!

Raf
I saw the MAP filter, the one the straps to the outside of the frame right? I also saw a decent looking inner filter that is ribbed/fanned (paper?/cloth?) versus the screen which is currently in use. I think I'm going to do both.

Matt


meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com
smokeandthrottle.blogspot.com
Triumphs and BSA's, a few... I'm a hoarder.


“I don’t mind the Ten Commandments, I believe in the Ten Commandments. The first one, ‘I am the Lord thy God,’ is a great commandment—if it’s not said by the wrong people.”

—Bob Dylan, introducing the song “Masters of War” at New York City Town Hall, 12 April 1963.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Matt smith] #327978
08/13/10 11:03 am
08/13/10 11:03 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,455
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Perfectionists will tell you that the filter on the frame baseplate is bad engineering, but I think you have to use it, because you will never get the inside of the frame completely free of grit.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: triton thrasher] #327985
08/13/10 12:03 pm
08/13/10 12:03 pm
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Posts: 804
Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Offline

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Originally Posted By: triton thrasher
Perfectionists will tell you that the filter on the frame baseplate is bad engineering, but I think you have to use it, because you will never get the inside of the frame completely free of grit.


I have used it and from the amount of oil gushing out when I removed the hose, I thought it safe to use.
Never had any problems with it, and neither had the subsequent owners.

"Amateur Loctite enthusiast." Ha ha, I like that, me too!

Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Stein Roger] #327990
08/13/10 1:17 pm
08/13/10 1:17 pm
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Posts: 7,409
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

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Hi Matt -

You could go the route Blapper did and fit an automotive filter on the FEED side. This would require some additional engineering. If you do a search here using his name and "oil filter" it should come up....

After you're finished with the degreaser, try using the wand on a power washer or the wand at one of those 'self-wash' car wash places....

Stev


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: JubeePrince] #328001
08/13/10 3:01 pm
08/13/10 3:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,455
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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Originally Posted By: JubeePrince
Hi Matt -

You could go the route Blapper did and fit an automotive filter on the FEED side. This would require some additional engineering. If you do a search here using his name and "oil filter" it should come up...


That won't save the feed side of the oil pump from grit.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: triton thrasher] #328003
08/13/10 3:17 pm
08/13/10 3:17 pm
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Posts: 4,359
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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This is a real justification for the filter in the bottom of the oil tank. Protects the engine by cleaning the oil BEFORE it gets to the pump and bearings.
No real problem in putting a filter in the return line as well.
In reality the Triumph pump is two pumps with a common drive so putting a filter in each pump circuit is good stuff.
HTH

Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: triton thrasher] #328076
08/13/10 11:22 pm
08/13/10 11:22 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,409
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

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Originally Posted By: triton thrasher

That won't save the feed side of the oil pump from grit.


Hi tt -

I'm sorry but I don't follow....can you elaborate?

TIA,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: JubeePrince] #328091
08/14/10 12:44 am
08/14/10 12:44 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,957
Scotland
S
Stuart Online content
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Hi Steve,

Originally Posted By: JubeePrince
Originally Posted By: triton thrasher

That won't save the feed side of the oil pump from grit.


can you elaborate?

Iirc, Blapper's oil filter is by Kirby Rowbotham in GB.

Even if that bit's wrong, essentially what's done is to intercept the oil between pump and crank feed in the timing cover, taking it to an external filter before returning it to the timing cover and into the crank. By definition then, any grit in the frame will pass through the feed side of the pump before being caught by the filter. frown

The same 'problem' exists on a Triumph or BSA triple, leading to particularly some triple racers fitting a MAP or Tricor England filter on the exit from the engine, so the results of any blow-up don't end up in the oil lines, cooler, tank and pump.

Hth.

Regards,

P.S. Btw, I haven't seen a post from Blapper for a while - anyone been in contact with him off the Board?

Last edited by Stuart; 08/14/10 12:46 am.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Tridentman] #328114
08/14/10 7:16 am
08/14/10 7:16 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Tridentman
This is a real justification for the filter in the bottom of the oil tank. Protects the engine by cleaning the oil BEFORE it gets to the pump and bearings.
No real problem in putting a filter in the return line as well.
In reality the Triumph pump is two pumps with a common drive so putting a filter in each pump circuit is good stuff.
HTH


You are going to have to do that, I would get the frame [oil tank] as clean as possible and change filters a couple of times in quick succession.

Grit is by definition fairly coarse and hard so any deposited on the filter element should be obvious and any sort of good element should capture it all on a single pass.

Possible clogging/pump suction restriction would seem to be the major concern hence comment re initial filter changes.

Five yrs from now a piece of grit will come loose and be captured by the filter and that will not matter a whit.

Diesel is a cheap soaking medium and very unlikely to burn your shed down.

Last edited by Tiger; 08/14/10 7:17 am.

1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: JubeePrince] #328116
08/14/10 7:41 am
08/14/10 7:41 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,455
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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Originally Posted By: JubeePrince
Originally Posted By: triton thrasher

That won't save the feed side of the oil pump from grit.


Hi tt -

I'm sorry but I don't follow....can you elaborate?

TIA,

Steve


The oil reservoir is full of grit from an ill-advised blasting escapade.

When the engine runs, oil travels from the bottom of the big frame tube to the feed side of the pump, which pumps it into the crankshaft. On Blapper's bike oil from the feed side of the pump is diverted to a filter on its way to the crank. If Blapper's Bike had a handful of blasting medium in the oil reservoir, the stuff would travel in the oil, to the feed plunger of the pump, scratching it and getting trapped in the ball valves.

This guy with the dirty frame tube interior is asking about the "Charlie's" type filter, which sits in the bottom of the oil-carrying frame tube on a special baseplate and strains dirt out of the oil before it leaves the reservoir.

No manufacturer fitted a filter in this suction/gravity powered part of the oil circuit because if the filter became a bit clogged, the engine would be destroyed. A filter on the return line is inherently safer, notwithstanding where the theoretical ideal place to clean the oil might be. Blapper's filter is pressure-fed and probably has a bypass feature, so a dirty filter won't bust his engine right away.

If you have grit in the OIF tube, using the filter in the frame bottom is the only way I can see that you can use the frame.

Stream clean and solvent wash it all you like- best of British luck, but you'll never know if you've got all the grit out.

But I'll know you won't have. And bits of it will travel into your engine.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: triton thrasher] #328121
08/14/10 8:23 am
08/14/10 8:23 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Offline
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As I've said before, the 'Charlies' filter must have been around now for 20-30 years, and literally hundreds sold and fitted during that time as just about every Triumph parts supplier in the UK sells them.

I know "experts" say it's wrong to fit such a filter on the 'suction' side of the pump, but in reality it appears to cause no problems, I've got one on my T140 and it's fine, and in a situation where the frame reservoir is contaminated with grit then a Charlies filter would appear to be the ideal solution.








Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: L.A.B.] #328126
08/14/10 10:10 am
08/14/10 10:10 am
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 523
Maine
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MikeinBiddeford Offline
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Maine
Thank you L.A.B I didn't know the "Charlies'" filter existed. The PO had an automotive filter mounted to a plate that was mounted to the front frame with stainless hose clamps. I didn't put it back on, but I'm not very comfortable with the stock screens and sludge trap. So that filter looks like just the ticket.

To those that are paranoid about putting the filter on the suction side of the pump, I guess you could put a vacuum gauge on the line. Or better yet a normally open vacuum switch. When the hose to the pump collapses from too much vacuum, the switch could shut the engine off for you at the most inopportune time, or maybe just sound and alarm.


Please do not believe anything I write. I am a hack but I like to guess the right answers.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: MikeinBiddeford] #328132
08/14/10 12:07 pm
08/14/10 12:07 pm
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scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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Originally Posted By: MikeinBiddeford


To those that are paranoid about putting the filter on the suction side of the pump, I guess you could put a vacuum gauge on the line. Or better yet a normally open vacuum switch. When the hose to the pump collapses from too much vacuum, the switch could shut the engine off for you at the most inopportune time, or maybe just sound and alarm.


There are loads of positive and negative pulses in a Triumph oil feed. I think it would drive your gauge and switch crazy.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: triton thrasher] #328138
08/14/10 12:39 pm
08/14/10 12:39 pm
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Vic. Australia
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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I've used a piezo buzzer connected across the oil light terminals.Cheap,fits easily inside the headlight shell.
It would attract your attention more than one of those weak oil warning lights,which only become visible at night.
100 decibel or more,from something that fits in a matchbox.

Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #328146
08/14/10 1:48 pm
08/14/10 1:48 pm
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JubeePrince Offline

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Sheesh....didn't mean to start ANOTHER oil filter thread battle!!! crazy

Thanks for that Stuart and tt....Stuart answered the question for me....I had forgotten that KR setup put the filter AFTER the feed side of the pump....if I hadn't been so lazy, I would have re-read the thread I referenced for Matt!! grin

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #328147
08/14/10 1:50 pm
08/14/10 1:50 pm
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Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Charlies filter would appear to be the ideal solution.

The only solution.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #328153
08/14/10 3:12 pm
08/14/10 3:12 pm
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Originally Posted By: Pete R
I've used a piezo buzzer connected across the oil light terminals.Cheap,fits easily inside the headlight shell.
It would attract your attention more than one of those weak oil warning lights,which only become visible at night.
100 decibel or more,from something that fits in a matchbox.


Do you have a second switch for the buzzer?
A 100 decibel alarm during starting procedure would be pretty annoying to me.


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Ducknaldo] #328167
08/14/10 4:45 pm
08/14/10 4:45 pm
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 462
West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Matt smith Offline OP
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Matt smith  Offline OP
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West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to keep flushing the frame until i actually finish up the top end situation with the push rods and tappets. I think that Charlies filter looks good, and I'll clean it several times after it's installed. what a nightmare this project has turned into....


matt


meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com
smokeandthrottle.blogspot.com
Triumphs and BSA's, a few... I'm a hoarder.


“I don’t mind the Ten Commandments, I believe in the Ten Commandments. The first one, ‘I am the Lord thy God,’ is a great commandment—if it’s not said by the wrong people.”

—Bob Dylan, introducing the song “Masters of War” at New York City Town Hall, 12 April 1963.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: Matt smith] #328172
08/14/10 5:29 pm
08/14/10 5:29 pm
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
JBMorris Offline
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Hi Matt

Before you install it might consider matching filter element at local auto parts mart. (Cartridge type)

Next time you won't have to buy a "secret"" sourced filter from whoever sold you the kit.

datswotididanyway


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: JBMorris] #328199
08/14/10 8:22 pm
08/14/10 8:22 pm
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 462
West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Matt smith Offline OP
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Matt smith  Offline OP
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West Chester, pennsylvania. US...
Brien, Good thinking.


meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com
smokeandthrottle.blogspot.com
Triumphs and BSA's, a few... I'm a hoarder.


“I don’t mind the Ten Commandments, I believe in the Ten Commandments. The first one, ‘I am the Lord thy God,’ is a great commandment—if it’s not said by the wrong people.”

—Bob Dylan, introducing the song “Masters of War” at New York City Town Hall, 12 April 1963.
Re: whats the best oil filter for an OIF Bonnie? [Re: JBMorris] #328203
08/14/10 8:36 pm
08/14/10 8:36 pm
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Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
Before you install it might consider matching filter element at local auto parts mart. (Cartridge type)

Next time you won't have to buy a "secret"" sourced filter from whoever sold you the kit.



Most* Charlies kits use the super-secret B25/B50 filter element, which you proably won't find in stock at your local auto parts store?

However, Triumph/BSA parts suppliers will probably sell them to you "under-the-counter" just don't tell anyone I said so!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-T140-BSA-B...58691d6ff425e52

*(I think my version uses a Mercedes filter)

Last edited by L.A.B.; 08/14/10 8:45 pm.
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