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Oil Change 68 A65???? #32415
12/29/07 1:21 am
12/29/07 1:21 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 37
Pacific Grove California
U
Uncle Pancakes Offline OP
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Uncle Pancakes  Offline OP
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U

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 37
Pacific Grove California
Hey folks hope everyone had a great holiday. I have not been on the forum for awhile as work has kept me away from the bike frown I would like to do an oil change on my 66 Lightning with a 68 motor in it, I have never done this on a BSA before. Any tips or advice you can give to help guide me through doing it right would be much appreciated. I do not have a sump with a drain plug so will need to drop the whole plate right? Just wondering how much oil should come out of the sump as most of the oil should be up in the oil tank right? Do you just pull the drain plug on the tank and let the "black gold" run out? The oil tank plug has a filter in it that needs cleaning I beieve, any suggestions on how to clean it and what oil are you folks using? Thanks and sorry if these are basic dumb questions but I'd like to make sure I do it right and do not miss a step.

Ted Parrott

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Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32416
12/29/07 1:40 am
12/29/07 1:40 am
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
Flint,Mich
norbsa48503 Offline
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norbsa48503  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
Flint,Mich
Most of us who have A-65's have made a funnel for the oil tank draining. The corner of a milk jug and a good set of scissors will get you there. Just add safety wire. The oil in the engine will be an inverse relationship to how much is not in the tank.
The screen in the tank is for big hunks splash with gas.Just go real light on sealants and easy on the little studs and nuts not too tight. It's a good time to lash the valves and this allows you to refill the sump with about 200cc of oil down the push rod tunnel.


norbsa
1960 TR6
1963 Super Rocket
1965 650 Star
1966 441
1968 Thunderbolt
1969 Twinkle 250
1972 Fastback
1974 Roadster
1970 S.S
Way too many BSA's not named
http://decentcycles.com
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32417
12/29/07 1:42 am
12/29/07 1:42 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
I would run the engine to warm the oil and to suspend the bits that could be settled into the bottom of the tank below the side drain hole. It can be quite messy with the early tanks as you try to catch the oil coming out, the later tanks (maybe 68 and on) have a little spout under the drain to direct the oil. Be well set up with whatever you are going to catch it in before you start as there is no turning back once the plug and filter are out. Usually a large funnel placed tightly under the tank will do with a hose into a container.

The sump should not have very much oil if you have just had it running. Give it a little time to all drain out as you clean the sump screen. I use fuel (gas, petrol) to clean that screen and the one on the tank drain but you need to wait until it evaporates before putting it back together.

I sometimes just use a small plastic manual pump sold for moving fuel. With that method I ensure that the pickup hose is down to the bottom of the tank to pick up the sludge. Care must be taken so as not to damage the filter screen.

If you have the tank drain out use a light to see if there is any junk left behind at the bottom of the tank.

With the sump screen you should be looking for anything unusual like metal bits/specks that something is about to happen to spoil your ride.

Have a new sump gasket ready unless you are using the modern reusable type.

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32418
12/29/07 3:00 am
12/29/07 3:00 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,595
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,595
Owego, NY, USA
When you remove the sump cover nuts, you may find that the studs will come out with them. If this happens, remove the nuts from the studs on the bench, clean up the studs and the holes in the case (I like acetone for removing all traces of oil), and put some blue Loctite on the studs before threading them back into the case. Go easy on the nuts when reinstalling; the spec is about six ft-lbs. If the cover leaks, it's not because the nuts are not tight enough.

On reassembly, don't put gasket cement on both sides of the (new) gasket, just put it on the cover side, or, make a gasket out of "rubber-fiber compound" (available in auto supply stores), and don't use gasket cement at all. Either of these techniques will allow you to remove the cover (next time) without tearing a gasket or scraping off gasket cement.

The service manual recommends pumping 1/2 pint of oil into the crankcase through the timing locator hole in the front of the case after draining the sump, in order to "prime the oil pump".

If you are adverse to petrol fumes, kerosene also works well as a cleaning agent for the screen filters.

If you want one of those sump covers with the drain plug and you don't want to order from England, Alloy-Tech in Illinois also supplies them. Great idea if your A65 is prone to wet-sumping; you can quickly drain the sump and pour the oil right back into the oil tank.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32419
12/29/07 3:49 am
12/29/07 3:49 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,049
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,049
Central Virginia
Quote
Originally posted by Mark Z:

The service manual recommends pumping 1/2 pint of oil into the crankcase through the timing locator hole in the front of the case after draining the sump, in order to "prime the oil pump".

I
I haven't checked my service manual, but does it really say that the purpose of oil into the sump is to prime the oil pump?

Of course, the supply side of the pump doesn't pull from the sump, so it doesn't need "priming" from there; it sees the "head" from the oil tank.

And ALL of the oil that the supply side pumps, ends up in the sump in just a few seconds anyhow after the engine starts. So if the sump starts out "dry", it'll have oil in it very soon and the scavenge side of the pump picks it up from there.

So I wonder what the utility of putting some oil in there to begin with really is? Maybe to start oiling the rocker arms a few seconds before it normally would start? Changing the oil doesn't change the amount of oil already in the valve gear.

I've done it before, but now I'm not sure what good it might do!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32420
12/29/07 7:32 am
12/29/07 7:32 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 109
Ghana
H
Harry Spitfire Offline
BritBike Forum member
Harry Spitfire  Offline
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H

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 109
Ghana
My instruction manual say's 1/2 pint oil added to sump before start. Only reason I can think of is to splash feed bottom of pistons?

Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32421
12/29/07 8:54 am
12/29/07 8:54 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 68
FRANCE
S
SERGE A65 Offline
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SERGE A65  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 68
FRANCE
Lannis

When the engine restarts after draining, the camshaft and cam followers turn some time without oil. Those parts which are under severe pressure, can be damaged very quickly if the flow of oil is sufficient. We must not forget that this part of the engine is only lubricated by the oil projected from crankshaft, and it takes a period of time for restoring lubrication circuit after draining. The 1/2 pint of oil poured into the crankcase avoids this drawback, very harmful to the camshaft and cam followers.


1965 A65 STAR
1968 A65 LIGHTNING
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32422
12/29/07 9:01 am
12/29/07 9:01 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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BSA_WM20  Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
Firstly plan to do your oil change after you come back from a nice long ride, the longer the better.
This will mean that as much of the gunk that you are trying to remove is well & truly in suspension in the oil to start with.
Before you start buy a nest of cheap plastic funnels and cut one or then so that it fits under the oil tank and comes up at least to the top of the filter then work out how you are going to support it and where the 2 quarts of really hot oil is going to end up.
Next make yourself a thin oil pan to fit under the bike and leave you with enough room to to remove the 4 nuts ( the warning about studs coming off as well previous should be headed) and the sump from the left side of the bike as you will be draining the oil tank from the right side. I use some old flat 2 liter oil bottles cut almost in 1/2. Now find some appropriate spanners to remove the sump nut with & you will probably need a punch to "coax" the sump off.
I use Hylomar between the gasket & sump plate ( to stick them together) and wheel bearing grease between the gasket & crankcases to ensure that the hot sump falls away from the cases easily. Wipe the grease off with a little petrol and put some more on fresh every time.

You have heard all of the listees praising the virtues of the aftermarket sumps with drain bolts and it would be prudent to fit one now. the 4- 1/4" studs are easily damaged, just screwing them in & out of the cases will damage the threads on the cases & in time cause the sump to leak. When you have it off you will see that there is precious little support for these studs and welding back the broken corner of the cases is a real pain and to be avoided at all costs.
I use very thin spring washers under the sump nuts and only tighten them enough to flatten the washers ( same as for the carb flange nuts). The thread on the nuts is finer than the thread on the cases & it is very easy to strip the threads in the cases when over tightening the nuts.
This probably sound daunting but once you have the right bits & bobs then it is a doddle & can become a 5 minute job you do once a month when you come back from a day out on your bike,


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32423
12/29/07 12:35 pm
12/29/07 12:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,124
Stone Creek OH USA
Little trick I have learned to reduce the mess from the tank drain. Put your home made funnel under the tank with catch pan. Start removing the plug/filter only until the holes below the first set of threads are exposed. These are the holes used to allow oil to feed into the engine. Let the tank drain using the holes, as it put the draining oil a bit away from the edge of the tank. When oil stops flowing freely, remove the plug/filter to be cleaned and allow any remaining oil to drain.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32424
12/29/07 2:14 pm
12/29/07 2:14 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
BritBike Forum member
BSA_WM20  Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
Old Dog just learnt a new trick. Tar.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Oil Change 68 A65???? #32425
12/30/07 3:54 am
12/30/07 3:54 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,595
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
BritBike Forum member
Mark Z  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,595
Owego, NY, USA
Hi Lannis, I probably haven't re-read that section of my Chilton Repair Guide in thiry years - funny the things that stick in my mind (or used to when it was still fertile). Anyway, here it is:

"Before starting the engine, remove the plug at the front of the timing side crankcase and pour 1/2 pint of oil into the crankcase to prime the pump."

I never questioned whether this makes sense or not - I guess it would prime the return side of the pump, ?


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.

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