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Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame #313561
05/16/10 3:55 am
05/16/10 3:55 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,716
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,716
Jordan, NY
Any ideas how big an engine I would be able to fit into a '72 Rickman rolling chassis? There is no engine - it originally had the Zundapp 125. Do you think a 500 twin would fit or is it too much engine for the frame? End purpose would be an all purpose on/off road (no racing or boonie-bashing). Thanks. Al.


Al Eckstadt
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Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Al Eckstadt] #313626
05/16/10 1:34 pm
05/16/10 1:34 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
Al,
Depends upon how far you are able to fabricate....
May I ask if you can tell me the numbers stamped into the data plate, on the goose neck of the frame? I may be able to tell you what you actually have... Single largish downtube, or double small tube down tubes?

You realise 4 strokers are inherently taller than their similar displacement 2 strokers, right? Well, in MOST modern engines....

I have seen a 125 honda single in the 125 Rickman frame. It was tight...
The best conversion I've seen, was when someone installed a Yamaha 175 engine into this type of frame. I believe they either used the stock Rickman pipe, or were able to adapt the 175 yam pipe, because the pipe went right where the original pipe was along the frame, and exiting out through the side panels correctly. I liked the finished effort!

Some time ago, I met a fellow down in Florida. He was buying 250 Rickman frames, and doing a darn fine job adapting Ducati 250, 350, and 450 singles into these frames. What I saw was a very clean finished product.
I think the reason he was wanting these frames particularly, was that the Montesa and Ducati engines had their final drives off the same side of the engine.... But, I might be wrong about that assumption...
He DID have to cut the bottom section of the frames out, because of the Ducati sumps. But, I think Ducati frames are that way?

Saying this, I don't think it wise to cut any small downtube frame rails away... Not anywheres near enough strength left to keep frame rigidity integrity intact... You might even end up with a flexy flyer, that might bend the upper backbone of the frame, at the very worst moment of a ride....

Another thought for you to concider; If it is a Zundapp engined frame, I have occationally seen N.O.S. Zundapp engines, that have never been fired, or been installed in a frame, come up for sale.
You would have pretty much, a bolt-in situation...
My most favorite dirt bike IS a Rickman 125, with the Zundapp engine.
I need a wiring harness for a Rickman 125. I'd like to put one of mine on the street. Still need to find the lighting for it also.... Wished I understood electrics MUCH better than I do...

One other thing to worry about; you MIGHT have a frame that used either a Hodaka or Sachs engine.... Can you post me a pic of the engine area? These are very small and tight, short engines! I'd think any 500cc twin engine might not ever easily fit in these...

Good Luck in your effort!
Brett
Rickman56@gmail.com

Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Rickman] #314489
05/21/10 5:55 am
05/21/10 5:55 am
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 765
Santa Barbara, Cal.
B
Bodger Offline
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Bodger  Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 765
Santa Barbara, Cal.
New Maico engines being made, and they're british made...
http://www.maicoonly.co.uk I think...250cc, 40+ hp...zoom!

Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Bodger] #314526
05/21/10 1:30 pm
05/21/10 1:30 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,088
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
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GrandPaul  Offline
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
No way will a 500 twin fit in the 125 frame.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: GrandPaul] #314968
05/24/10 11:16 am
05/24/10 11:16 am
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 604
England
Tom_dup1 Offline
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Tom_dup1  Offline
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Posts: 604
England
A Triumph 500 Twin lump will actually fit in the frame. Classic Bike magazine featured one about 15 years ago. But it wasn't a practical conversion in the sense that rockers couldn't be adjusted in the frame, the exhaust was a plumbers nightmare etc etc...

Now, a Tiger Cub engine:

http://www.framecrafters.net/show-project.php?id=9

Tom

Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Tom_dup1] #315015
05/24/10 5:32 pm
05/24/10 5:32 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,754
gastonia nc
R
raf940 Offline
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raf940  Offline
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gastonia nc
wow!!! that tigercub/rockman nearly made me bust out cryin' it' sssooo beautiful...back in the late 1970s i had one with 125cc Zundapp motor in ISDT Special configuration..lights, etc. it was road legal and a blast...i should never have sold it...


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando
Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: raf940] #315174
05/25/10 1:27 pm
05/25/10 1:27 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Alex  Offline

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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Yup, saw another 500 triumph stuffed into a 125 Rickman frame not too long ago. Front downtubes had to be spread out and the rear mount had to be re-invented. It's not that great of a frame in the first place (built to a price from much lower-grade tubing than other rickmans) and I think it would probably start to give after the first jump. A friend of mine had a project to fit a B44 motor in one, but again, major modifications are required. I just don't know if it's worth the effort.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Alex] #315677
05/28/10 1:35 pm
05/28/10 1:35 pm
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 604
England
Tom_dup1 Offline
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Tom_dup1  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 604
England
Alex, I didn't know that the tubing was lower grade. The only one I knew of personally was a scrambler with a B25 engine. It was retired with a broken frame!

Tom

Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Tom_dup1] #315744
05/28/10 9:14 pm
05/28/10 9:14 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Alex  Offline

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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
From what I understand, Tom, the Rickman Zundapps and Hodakas were built to a price and were not built using the Chrome/moly tubing used in their other frames. Now...I can't say this for sure since I only have this on second-hand info but I have gotten to pick up a bare frame and have to say I was surprised at how heavy it was...Still, they're neat machines...definitely built for fun.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Alex] #315916
05/29/10 5:49 pm
05/29/10 5:49 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,716
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,716
Jordan, NY
Thanks for all the input, guys. Sorry I am just now getting back with a picture of the frame/chassis. Frame tag reads 5/72 4779Z. Z probably indicates Zundapp. It's no peach, the frame and probably the wheels are rusty, but the gas tank is metal and clean inside. The alloy portions are not corroded. There is a possibility that I can get a Triumph 250 engine. I know these are not the best engines, but I do know a guy who is familiar with them and could help me rebuild it. I am not intending to build a dirt bike but something for the street, light and easy to ride. How do you think this would work? Thanks. Al.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Want a larger engine for a 72 Rickman 125 frame [Re: Al Eckstadt] #316033
05/30/10 12:13 pm
05/30/10 12:13 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
As I said before, and like was shown in the linked pic someone else posted, it can be done if you can fabricate the new lower frame structure needed. Or have it done.....

My point of 4-stroke engine height, is your enemy here, the B25 top end is configured straight up and down. It's a LOT taller than a 125 or 250 2-stroker....

Since you say this bike will be mostly street ridden, you shouldn't have too many worries about the ground clearance, but you should take that also into your calculations..... Your weight, the bike's new total weight, how much closer to the ground your alterations cause the engine area to be, spring rates, shock lengths, fork tube lengths, which "Forking by Frank" may be able to help you with.... Stuff like all that...

Once you finish the engine installation, and are happy with the fitment of everything, should you choose, I have almost all the Rickman 'glass your chassis is missing, in either Rickman Red, or US Racing Blue.... Which is lighter in color than the tank in your pic..... Battery boxes are my largest concern.... I even have the little plastic mud flap, that bolts onto the frame, just below and in front of the engine exhaust. But, in reconfiguring your frame, that mounting point may disappear...

You can still get 21" street tires, or dual sport tires, and 18" tires are all over the place....

Whilst I really like the brakes on my 125 & 250 Rickmans in off-road application, I have absolutely no idea how they will work on the streets and roads.... DO be careful with them, until you are happy with their ability!

You will certainly end up with a unique bike!

Last edited by Rickman; 05/30/10 12:22 pm.


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