I just connected the starter on my 1982 T140ES. Seems to work fine, but I have been receiving dire warnings against using it. Anyone know if there is a 'fix' to the problem before it breaks? It kickstarts really easily, but just in case I htperextend my knee clearing the clutch again, it might be useful.
The early 1980 t140ES are the ones to be suspicious of. Some (all ?) of their timing gears were not sufficently hardened and so the teetth were stripped under the strain. There should be a brass bush in the timing chest (to combat wear ?) of 1981-on T140ES.
Meriden issued an updating kit (part no. 99-7515)to cure the teething problems- consisted of part no.s 71-7619 (hub gear no.8), 71-7621 (gear 6/7) & 71-7561 (internediate spindle with no cross holes). The update service bulletin stated , 'All engine produced subsequent to NDA 31369 have these later type components fitted'.
I have two electric start (1983) machines, a TSX and a TSSAV, and have full confidence in both. eventually he latter did have some of it's timing gears replaced and the former had it's sprag clutch replaced but both after several thousand miles.
I have an 82 T140 and it destroyed all the timing gears so I removed the starter and timing cover, replaced all the gears an reverted back to an earlier model. It starts so easily its hardly worth the problems.
A fix I use for your stuck clutch plates. When you park it pull the clutch in and drop a thick bolt between the lever and the perch, keeps the plates open and never stuck again.
Danny Defazio's booklet on the T140 relates how he purchased a T140ES from new, covering many thousands of trouble-free miles before suspicion got the better of him and he removed the electric starting system. He writes he may re-fit it as his knees go ...
Here's a thing ...from 1982-5, British couple, Richard & Mopsa English went around the world on one of the very few TR65S, an electric starting TR65 Thunderbird. I asked them if they had any problems with it and indeed, as their book, Full Circle, conforms, they had NONE !Proof of the pudding ...?
BTW they and their TR65S will be at the London Motorcycle Museum on 4th July this year for Thunderbird Day.
It is a shame that Triumph didn't use a bendix type starter or incorporate a starter clutch like the Norton. This system will not tolerate the engine running backwards!
So without being Steve Boyd's "prince of doomsday" here's some suggestions: Battery: Use the best battery money can buy. Make sure it is at least a YB14L or equivelant. Make sure it is always fully charged. Make sure you keep it charged when you are not using the bike. At the first sign the battery is having problems replace it. At the first sign the battery is struggling to run the starter use the kick starter until you fix the problem. Starting: Do not use the electric starter when the motor is cold, use the kick starter. Only use the starter when the motor is warm. Use the choke so you won't have a lean mixture that might cause a back fire. Tune: Keep the bike in tip-top state of tune!!!! Make sure the electric starter is kept in tip-top shape. When they get old they tend to draw more current increasing the chances of a voltage drop causing the electronic ignition back fire.
It is a voltage drop that causes the problem. When the voltage drops when you engage the electric starter, it turns off the electronic ignition firing the spark plug. If this happens when the piston under compression is half way up the bore it will break something. There are no provision to allow the motor to turn backwards when the electric starter is engaged.
I am sure that Steve Boyd thinks I am a pessimist, but I consider myself a realist.
When you see several electric start cases that are broken, or crankshafts with the end broken off, it gets your attention. Meriden forever was lucky when those gears broke!I have seen too many devastated electric start owners to not call for caution. It sort of when, not if.
This is a wonderful motorcycle. The Co-op got most of the bugs out of the rest of the bike and these make great carefree riders. Just leave the electric start on the motorcycle and use the kick starter.
Last edited by John Healy; 05/17/109:19 pm.
Re: Anyone about the 'fix' is for the T140 Starter
[Re: John Healy]
#313886 05/17/1010:10 pm05/17/1010:10 pm
I agree with what John says- my Triumphs are kept in tip-top shape my Reg Allen's so may mean my electric starts run OK.
The 750s are so easy to kick over , even first thing in the morning that I use the kicker mostly. I really appreciate the electric start when with a passenger and stalled in traffic- the kick lever won't clear the lowered passenger peg !
Do appreciate that those broken gears were after 13K miles including a year or so as a police demonstrator model where the electric start would've no doubt been used by rozzers in total ignorance of John H's wise words
my timing gears got stripped twice and it happened once to the previous owner. this was on a 1981 royal wedding T140es. after replacing the gears twice in as many months i gave up on the leccy start, i kept the starter motor and timing case but hanged out the internals and disconnected the power supply to the starter motor. it still looked like it should but it was safe
Re: Anyone about the 'fix' is for the T140 Starter
#315404 05/26/1011:16 pm05/26/1011:16 pm
so far , so good...am starting when i can the TSSAV on the kick and only using the leccy start when I stall. Kicking is easy but it doesn't always start first or second go which is when the button becomes a boon. I have confidence in the system although I acknowledge, meriden chased the initial design defect until they strengthened everything- the later the leccy start, the better, John Rosamond says.