BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
desertrat
desertrat
Arizona
Posts: 111
Joined: December 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
211 registered members (750Bonny), 1,833 guests, and 546 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Brian Ellery, Jon Andrews, Berni Ernst, johnguppy, michael morgan
9955 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 188
koan58 100
Stuart 88
NickL 65
Popular Topics(Views)
436,895 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,269
Posts632,124
Members9,955
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#306344 - 04/03/10 7:58 pm Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
JBMorris Online content
BritBike Forum member
JBMorris  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Hi folks,
There are two switches, one above, one below the red kill switch.
Owners handbook (for 1977)and the workshop manual for '78 don't identify these two animals.
It may have been brought up before, but i don't recall what they are intended for. . .any help?

Section H19 wiring diagram shows 17,18,19: indicator switch,kill button,left hand handlebar switch.
(?)
Ive seen 1978 bikes with much cleaner controls than mine and i believe my bike was built in November of '78?
. . . but i'm not absolutely sure.


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
#306350 - 04/03/10 8:31 pm Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,465
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,465
Norfolk, UK
Quote:
There are two switches, one above, one below the red kill switch.
Owners handbook (for 1977)and the workshop manual for '78 don't identify these two animals.
It may have been brought up before, but i don't recall what they are intended for. . .any help?




The upper button is for the headlamp flasher. The lower button is a spare.


Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
Ive seen 1978 bikes with much cleaner controls than mine and i believe my bike was built in November of '78?
. . . but i'm not absolutely sure.


By calendar date "November '78" (PA prefix) the Co-op would have been several months into building their '79 model year production (P = Nov. A = 1979 season model) starting at HA11001 in July 1978. The '79 year models (T140D & E*) had the parallel inlet port heads with Mk2 Amals, Lucas RITA ignition, T160, style instruments and black handlebar switch units.
*(Some T140E's were also built during the '78 season, but they didn't have the RITA ignition)

Quote:
T140VPX01562


A date code prefix of PX (X = '78 season) could easily be misread as being November '78 manufacture, when it is actually the date code for November '77.



Quote:
Section H19 wiring diagram shows 17,18,19: indicator switch,kill button,left hand handlebar switch.

Disregard that information, as the '78 season models would normally have had a different (T160 style) L/H switch unit.




#306362 - 04/03/10 11:05 pm Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: L.A.B.]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Stuart Online content
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Scotland
Hi Les,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
The upper button is for the headlamp flasher.

You sure? That'd make it entirely different to the externally-identical cluster fitted to the T160, and the pattern ones available today. On the T160 and pattern ones, the upper button is for the electric start (White and White/Red cables).

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
the '78 season models would normally have had a different (T160 style) L/H switch unit.

Moreover, except on early T160's, where the appropriate cable wasn't connected in the cluster, the headlamp flasher is on the same (lower left) button as the horn - push in for horn, push up for flash.

Hth.

Regards,

#306408 - 04/04/10 7:58 am Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: Stuart]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,465
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,465
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By: Stuart
You sure?



Well, that's how my '78 T140V is wired!


Quote:
That'd make it entirely different to the externally-identical cluster fitted to the T160, and the pattern ones available today. On the T160 and pattern ones, the upper button is for the electric start (White and White/Red cables).



Entirely different? No, the "starter" button (White & White/Red wire) becomes the"Headlamp flasher", that's all, as I see it.

[Edit] This could possibly have been a PO modification, as the '78 owners handbook doesn't mention a headlamp flasher (in fact it still shows the old up to '75? switch units) nor does it show one in the late wiring diagram, however it would seem odd to me if the factory didn't actually make use of the "starter" button as a headlamp flasher because the L/H switch wasn't wired for it, and a headlamp flash button was included in the earlier version T140 switchgear? (see the early T140 wiring diagram)



Quote:
Moreover, except on early T160's, where the appropriate cable wasn't connected in the cluster, the headlamp flasher is on the same (lower left) button as the horn - push in for horn, push up for flash.


There's no headamp flash facility on my (presumably original) T140V's L/H switch unit (which you'd expect to find on a T160 = push horn button upwards to flash the headlamp) or any sign that there ever was either a wire connection or internal switch contact for that purpose.
Also there's no second Blue/White wire from the switch to the 6-way multi-connector plug, or any corresponding Blue/White wire in the harness 6-way plug, so there's only eight wires (5 + 3) and not the nine (6 + 3) you'd expect to find coming out of the T160 L/H switch unit!


Last edited by L.A.B.; 04/04/10 2:36 pm.
#306454 - 04/04/10 1:41 pm Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: L.A.B.]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
JBMorris Online content
BritBike Forum member
JBMorris  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
L.A.B., Stuart,
Thanks for the info - i like the idea of a headlight flasher, mine doesn't work, as iv'e just tried it out.
As far as the horn button serving two functions, that's a new one on me!
Here's the wiring diagram from the '77 owners manual (downloaded from www, somewhere)

L.A.B., Thanks for the build date info- i still can't figure out the system!
"Spurious " sparks and spurious instrumentation is par for the course, i guess.
As far as PO modification, i guess that's possible, the redneck that i bought it from claims he assembled the bike straight from the crate, and he fitted earlier tank badges.
FWIW, i still wear the solid brass "Baron Buckle" with Triumph script that came in the crate, circa 1978, made in Taiwan!


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#306574 - 04/05/10 1:21 am Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: L.A.B.]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Stuart Online content
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Scotland
Hi Les,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
This could possibly have been a PO modification,

Hmmm, possibly I didn't explain my use of "entirely different" clearly enough ...

Ime, Lucas didn't supply stuff that required different-coloured cables to be connected together on assembly. So, if the function of the push-button had changed officially to a 'headlamp flasher', I would've expected to find a Blue/White cable in place of the White/Red cable supplied for an electric starter.

Looks like it didn't change officially, so Lucas were supplying the cluster still with a White/Red cable and, as you say, someone in the bike's past simply connected that cable to the Blue/White cables for a headlamp flasher. Fwiw, 'great minds think alike' - I've done exactly the same on the T100DBWIB (T100 Disc-Brake Wot I Built), which uses these switch clusters. wink

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
There's no headamp flash facility on my (presumably original) T140V's L/H switch unit
there's no second Blue/White wire from the switch to the 6-way multi-connector plug,

Yeah, that's the way it is on the early T160's; the additional Blue/White cable's missing from the cluster harness (although the multi-pin plug's the same) and there's a small hole in the top of the horn button unit that should take the end of the missing Blue/White cable.

Surprising that the fault reappears on Co-op twins built after the T160's. confused Wonder if Lucas made a mistake on the early T160 clusters, NVT moaned about it, Lucas made more correctly and put the remaining 'wrong' ones on the shelf, later palming 'em off on a cash-strapped Co-op?

Hth.

Regards,

#306642 - 04/05/10 1:44 pm Re: Lucas Controls - Engine stop "kill" switch: 1978 [Re: Stuart]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 215
Geoff Online content
BritBike Forum member
Geoff  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 215
Indianapolis
Off topic - but I think it is neat as I have a T140VPXxxxx as well. The electical part of the bike is a frankenstein though. Kewl.


'78 T140V
'74 Commando
'71 A65L - Cafe in progress now almost 20 years!
'69 TR6R
'58 Allstate (Puch) 175

Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.854s Queries: 15 (0.065s) Memory: 0.8437 MB (Peak: 1.0076 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-21 02:42:21 UTC