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1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. #294166
01/15/10 11:58 pm
01/15/10 11:58 pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
C
CAB Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
CAB  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
Hello
My Spitfire is kept at my dad's and I asked him to measure the bearings in the rear hub. I'm changing the bearings (the brake drum bearing is smooth but the hub bearings are rough). I want to make sure that the bearings I buy match the originals before I have a wasted trip and find out that I have been sent the wrong ones.... Dad has taken the drive side bearing out (the retainer has a left hand thread).
The parts book shows from the drive side the threaded retainer cap, the bearing, a thrust washer (looks more like a spacer that can only fit against the outside race due to it's size), then a tubular spacer, a large rubber cylinder and the hub. The thrust washer/spacer and rubber cylinder were both missing from the hub. The hub doesn't have a grease nipple hole which makes me believe it is a 1967 type (the 1966 parts book shows a grease nipple the 1967 parts book doesn't). I can't see the point of the rubber cylinder unless it is there to direct grease in to the bearing from the grease nipple (which isn't fitted).
Should the thrust washer/spacer be fitted?

What holds the right hand side bearing in to the hub and what direction is the thread? The parts book shows the hub, the bearing, a retainer (looks like a washer/spacer), a felt washer and then another retainer (this also looks like a washer/spacer). I can't see another threaded retaining cap to keep the bearing in. Does the right hand bearing come out the right hand side of the hub?
Thanks for any advice.
CAB

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Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: CAB] #294187
01/16/10 2:29 am
01/16/10 2:29 am
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,435
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline
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Jim Hultman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,435
Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: CAB
What holds the right hand side bearing in to the hub and what direction is the thread? The parts book shows the hub, the bearing, a retainer (looks like a washer/spacer), a felt washer and then another retainer (this also looks like a washer/spacer). I can't see another threaded retaining cap to keep the bearing in. Does the right hand bearing come out the right hand side of the hub?

Yes, the right bearing comes out the right side, the speedo drive is the retaining cover, and it is a left hand thread. Be careful not to damage the speedo drive notches. I built a tool to remove these, as they can be difficult. Just find a socket that fits nicely inside the hub, slide the socket in to the hub, mark the notches with a scribe and drill holes in it (exactly at 180 degrees). Then drive in a piece of 3/16 inch key stock.

You'll probably burn up a couple drill bits, and the key stock will round off a bit when you drive it in, but if you get the holes exactly right, it will fit nicely into the speedo drive slots in the cover. I can take a picture of this if you like.

Or you can just have at it with a water pump pliers, but I prefer the tool. Plus I like making tools! laughing

Jim

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: Jim Hultman] #294203
01/16/10 7:38 am
01/16/10 7:38 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,798
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,798
Comox BC Canada
Cab

The large rubber ring 67 6051 just fills the space and keeps out the dirt and water from getting in behind the drive spline. It does not put any pressure on the bearing. I suppose it really protects the splines.

The speedo drive does thread on but any pressure it puts on the bearing is through a felt washer and two retainers (washers). In use the right side bearing is held inplace by the tightening of the long axle which in turn exerts pressure through the series of spacers/distance pieces #28, #26 and #25 and the speedo gearbox onto the centre of the right side bearing. A key bit is the tubular spacer as it has two shoulders on it to position the hub via the bearing centres.

The retainer on the left side is needed to prevent the above force from pushing out the left side bearing when the axle is tightened. The retainer only holds the bearing in place and does not touch anything else on the left side. The hub stops moving left when the splines bottom out.

Gordo

This shows how the rubber fits into the hub



When you take the speedo drive off you will see a large washer



Behind the first washer is a felt washer and a second steel washer. The 66 book only shows one steel washer (retainer). They are not the same. Maybe in 66 there was only one washer but it would have been hard to thread on the speedo drive without wrecking the felt washer.



Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: Gordo in Comox] #294214
01/16/10 11:08 am
01/16/10 11:08 am
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
C
CAB Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
CAB  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
Thanks gents.
I really appreciate your help.
Jim a photo of the tool would be very useful.
There are lots of small bits missing from my bike (practically all the fasteners for a start). I'm building it with the parts manual as my reference.
Is the small left hand thrust washer/spacer 65-5584 often left out?
CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: CAB] #294216
01/16/10 11:38 am
01/16/10 11:38 am
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,029
Cadillac, MI
JT441 Offline

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JT441  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,029
Cadillac, MI
I found the bearings to be quite expensive from the British bike suppliers. I measured the bearings for my MK II and ordered them from AST http://www.astbearings.com/p-brng-ci.php . They were about 1/4 the price, fit perfectly and were sealed. AST was great to work with too. I just tried to find the invoice, but seem to have lost track of it.


JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: CAB] #294221
01/16/10 12:13 pm
01/16/10 12:13 pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 197
Lincolnshire, England
trickytree Offline
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trickytree  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 197
Lincolnshire, England
Originally Posted By: CAB
Thanks gents.

Is the small left hand thrust washer/spacer 65-5584 often left out?
CAB


Dont see how it can be realy...on my hub there is only a very small step machined into it...10 thou or so...the spacer is a snug fit in the hub and acts more like a shoulder for the bearing to butt up against.


65 A65 bobber
A10 bitza...not (re)born yet
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: CAB] #294235
01/16/10 2:44 pm
01/16/10 2:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,435
Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jim Hultman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,435
Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: CAB
Jim a photo of the tool would be very useful.

Here you go. Simple to make and sure makes it easy to get the speedo drive off these wheel hubs!





Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: Jim Hultman] #294259
01/16/10 6:08 pm
01/16/10 6:08 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,258
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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leon bee  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,258
arkansas
I love that tool of Jim's, but haven't needed it yet. I put a piece of flat steel in the big vise, some strap that fits the slots real nice. Then just put hub down on there and turn the wheel. Has worked every time..........not my idea, I learned it from somebody here on the board.

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: leon bee] #294368
01/17/10 1:27 pm
01/17/10 1:27 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

Life member
BrizzoBrit  Offline

Life member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
My parts book says LS9. They're imperial not metric and not everyone keeps them in stock. Can be a bit hard to find. Use to be a good reference here for BSA bearings:

http://www.bsansw.org.au/pages/bearings.html

but the link didnt work for me just now, but it might for you.

Sounds like you are halfway there. I have found fitting the drive side bearing first, setting it in place with the screw-in retainer and then fitting the speedo side works best. As per the manual. Dont ask how I know this is best (2 hours in the shed saves 2 minutes reading the book).

Cheers
Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: BrizzoBrit] #294496
01/18/10 8:42 am
01/18/10 8:42 am
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

Life member
BrizzoBrit  Offline

Life member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
Further to my last post.
Size is: 2.000 x .8750 x .5625

I had to get a couple at the bearing shop today. Timed it so I would pick it up on the way home from work and fit tonight. Rang this morning and the young bloke said yeah I got 'em (at about a third the price the local bike shop sells them for) roll up and he's tried to sell me RLS-9!!! Way too big. So make sure they get the equivalents correct.

Modern SKF # is RLS-7 and I use the rubber shielded both side which makes it RLS-7-2RS. For further equivalents try this:

http://www.consbrgs.com/page.taf?detail=71_2_4&print=yes

Cheers
Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: BrizzoBrit] #294772
01/19/10 10:24 pm
01/19/10 10:24 pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
C
CAB Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
CAB  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
Hello Ray
Is that the equivalent of 65-5883?
The two bearings (65-5883) in the hub are ever so slightly rough and I am going to change them. I'm not replacing the bearing in the brake drum as this seems fine. I think I have a 1967 hub as it does not have a greas nipple. The bearing in the brake drum is listed as 65-2045. Do you have an equivalent part number for this bearing. I'll try and get a price from Bearing Services Limited.
Thanks
CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: CAB] #294849
01/20/10 1:00 pm
01/20/10 1:00 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

Life member
BrizzoBrit  Offline

Life member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
CAB

Yes, that's the equivalent for the 65-5883.

I dont have an equivalent for the brake drum bearing (65-2045) which my parts book lists as a Hoffman 125 ?? which I can't make out too clearly. I'm working from a 1970 parts manual. I dont have one apart at the moment to check.

But there was a thread here mentioning bearings and in that there are 2 indendent listings that give 6205-2RS as the bearing for the brake hub (65-2045). Odd because this is a metric size - but then I believe the front (on the '70) use a metric.
There is a 6205-2RS box sitting in the bits and pieces from when I rebuilt my hub, but I wouldnt be betting my left nut on it at this stage.

go here for the thread: http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=30343

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire rear hub and removing the bearings. [Re: BrizzoBrit] #300203
02/23/10 11:35 pm
02/23/10 11:35 pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
C
CAB Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
CAB  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
Hello gents
I fitted the new bearings to the hub at the weekend. There is a spacer (65-5884) in the drive side. I ordered a new one and it was then obvious that there was one already in the hub. I also ordered the end cover (68-6142) that fits on the speedo drive. It is the cover under the socket in the above photo. The only problem is that the new one is stamped 'LH' and the hub has a right hand thread.... I didn't know it until I looked but I had the old end cover in the box. The old cover is much smaller in diameter (it doesn't cover the outside of the hub) and has a matching right hand thread. Any ideas?
Thanks
CAB


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