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#287036 - 12/03/09 3:44 pm rigid frame bb34  
Joined: Dec 2006
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goldstarfreddie Online content
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goldstarfreddie  Online Content
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new jersey USA
info needed on frame&motor numbers used on this model
any pics on this model would be appreciated it looks like a trials bike to me thanks goldstarfreddie@mac.com


BSA Gold Star eBay items

BSA Gold Star forum This board is dedicated to BSA Gold Star motorcycles.

#287059 - 12/03/09 5:27 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: goldstarfreddie]  
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Fred: The BMS book shows BB32/34 GS rigid frames in 1953 starting with BB31 101. I would expect they were trials machines.

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#287091 - 12/03/09 8:35 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Gordo in Comox]  
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goldstarfreddie Online content
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new jersey USA
thanks gordo i saw that but this is double down tube frame very much like the daytona rigid frame or the flat track rigid frame was this the forerunner to those?stamped CB32 or BB32 on the frame thanks fred

#287111 - 12/03/09 9:50 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: goldstarfreddie]  
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Morgan aka Admin Offline
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Morgan aka Admin  Offline

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Gothenburg, Sweden
Fred

Bill Niholson designed the duplex down tube frame and it was first used in 1952 and came in production 1953 for the factory works riders. one of those frames no bb32r.109 almost became mine once however i backedout as i wanted a later dirttrack frame which is a little lower.

here is a pic of the bike i was interested in a 350 cc.


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#287158 - 12/04/09 4:56 am Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Morgan aka Admin]  
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Bodger Offline
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Santa Barbara, Cal.
Hiya Morgan.

Thanks for the pic, do you have the picture of the other side handy?

Does this have a verticle post between or behind the gearbox, can't tell from this pic.

Beezabill I think it was has the frame drawings on his site. Is this that frame?

And the later dirt track frame you mentioned, is that the one on your Daytona GS? Lugless, or all welded?
The one in this pic looks all welded. Of course, I may be wrong and they were all welded, but I think in the transition to the swing arm frame they mostly did away with the cast lugs. Maybe. Also.

K and S were making replicas, do you know about them, and have you seen any of theirs up close? PM me if you have anything you'd rather not post, heh.

His prices and orientation to the vintage scene looked good...

I had an A7 frame that was used for early dirt track, perhaps even Daytona, but it's vanished to one republican prez or another..iirc it was lugs and looked stock like beezabills drawings...and maybe the factory or dealers used the 'stock' rigid frame for dirt track racing in 51/52/53/54. My A7 is from 1952 and is the semi-unit construction with racy special looking bits and Daytona gears....and a triplex primary (stock was duplex I think). As I didn't buy these pieces until 1967 it could have been A65 stuff installed by a PO...but somebody worked on it and raced it at some point. KC and I are tracking down early pictures of it, right KC?

And also to your knowledge, as you did a lot of leg work on your project, did you run across anyone with any pictures or info on Roland Pike's Earle's forked alloy framed A7? I've only seen the one picture...
Now that was a Special! Beezagent has the Roland Pike bio posted..just so we all know.

Back to the rigid BB34, there was also an early swing armed version that in several pictures has no passenger footpeg loop/mounts. The pics are in the front of Bruce Main Smith's GS Book...I never was able to scan them and post, as I promised I'd do in a related thread. I have a frame just like that, and didn't notice that they'd been sawn off, no marks I think.

Also other pictures of the rigid and early frames are in another BruceMS book, titled Early Years or similiar, it's a nice small picture booklet. Another book by Norman Van House, BSA Competition History maybe, might have some pics as well of this frame.

Thanks again for all the fish, sorry to ramble so... Ken

#287208 - 12/04/09 1:34 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Bodger]  
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goldstarfreddie Online content
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new jersey USA
This is the frame in question as you can see there is no bend for the oil pump/neck sits higher up/no numbers?
The twin motor will not fit without the bend either?no brks were ever there for the top mounted oil tank or was the bend ever there
I am in the process of bringing the frame back to life but with what motor thanks for any info or pics fred






#287303 - 12/04/09 8:33 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: goldstarfreddie]  
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Chris G Offline
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UK
Freddie ,

Looks very similar to this early twin frame on e-bay 320457757626 .

Chris

#287307 - 12/04/09 8:42 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: goldstarfreddie]  
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Bodger Offline
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Santa Barbara, Cal.
Well, it looks like a twin frame, and it has been modified: the angle bracket, the filler pieces on top.

You'd need the kink to fit a single, but you can do it, as you will be ankle deep in cutting, grinding and welding equipment soon.

Here's Beezabill's site:

http://bsa-a10.hailwood.com/

From there you can go to the Frame page:

http://bsa-a10.hailwood.com/bsaframes.html

and look at those to compare and see what's what.

The numbers I think are/were on the upper left down tube near where the gusset is welded.

The welds look just like later frames, same small engine mount lugs.. and no big cast lugs shown in the earlier frame drawings.

As to what twin, for street production there was only one choice, the semi-unit A10 and earlier A7 had the transmission bolted to the back of the engine. There was an even earlier A7 that used a different bore and stroke, changed to the later b/s in about 1951? Same frame I think.

The swing arm change used only detached engine and transmissions..the 'pre-unit' design.

However, there were rigid frames made for using the pre-unit twins design ...and then there was also a racing A7 A10 design most famous for Daytona and dirt track racing in the early 50's, and there must have been two of those frames because they used both the semi-unit and the pre-unit designs, mine is the 52 semi-unit/bolted to engine design.

Maybe Morgan can say, I haven't seen the racing frame bare and next to a street rigid frame to compare, and Beeza Bill doesn't distinguish...I think.

Looking at the frame designs, the closest this is is the B32 B34 Rigid Frame 1954. The oil pump kink isn't there, and other stuff has been cut and added, so maybe it's a 54 rigid twin or maybe it was for the B34 and modified. Remove the paint and you can see if there is the scars from kink removal.

The rear wheel mounts are at another angle, but the frame may have, heh, was rewelded, so I can't say from here.

Email Beeza Bill, he may have these designs or could have a go.

Find Myles Raymond's email address, he's blogging as Beezagent ,I think, he may know, and I'd sure like to know as well, thanks.

#287420 - 12/05/09 1:10 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Bodger]  
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goldstarfreddie Online content
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new jersey USA
thanks for the info and here is some pics of Myles Raymonds daytona bike and the frame in question they look the same to me notice the high neck on both as opposed to a low neck on the flat track frame (no pic)





#287436 - 12/05/09 2:49 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: goldstarfreddie]  
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Bodger Offline
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Santa Barbara, Cal.
Well...that's Myle's A7? And your frame has no oil pump kink and Myle's frame has the kink. You need Myle's frame and he needs yours, heh.
Those pictures sure show they way to restore the frame too.

Are these posted on Myle's website, link?

You posted a picture from Norman VanHouse's BSA Competition History at the top, the picture below that is the frame that I got in my pile o' parts I got with my Daytona A7 in the 60's., Now Van House says it's rare....as is the engine. The frame hasn't been standard since I put a Manx engine in it in 1968. Handles nice tho...

Since your post here I've been reading VanHouse and he suggests the semi-unit was the best design of the time, and suggests it would have been a logical development to fit it into the A50 frame. I think that's what I'll do if I can't find an authentic rigid racing twin frame I can afford...another good fit would be to put it into the B50/T25 frame.

Thanks for this...keep posting the progress and research.

#287499 - 12/05/09 6:40 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Bodger]  
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Morgan aka Admin Offline
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Morgan aka Admin  Offline

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Gothenburg, Sweden



The guy who owned it wrote to me and said

Hi i saw your ad in the classic bike guide. i may have the bike you are looking for. It is a rigid trials BSA (of course).
Frame is genuine BB32R, and is authenticated by the Gold Star Owners Club.
Engine is a BB32 fitted with a competion magneto.
The small oil tank is original and correct for this model.
It has the propler trials gear box and the petrol tank is a 'welsh' 3 day tank. Wheel rims are jones or dunlop.


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#288196 - 12/10/09 6:07 am Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Bodger]  
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Bodger

The link to Myles Raymond's site.

http://www.beezanet.com/daytona/contact.htm

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#288238 - 12/10/09 2:36 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Gordo in Comox]  
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Bodger Offline
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thanks Gordo, all I had were dead links for him, thanks very much.

#290097 - 12/20/09 7:39 pm Re: rigid frame bb34 [Re: Bodger]  
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goldstarfreddie Online content
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new jersey USA
this is an update on the Daytona rigid frame the oil tank mts need to be put on but the big problem is the ex i think it will have to be made the motor is a short rod A7 with a lightened flywheel one fin removed from the barrel and the duel carb head






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