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Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: btour] #286915
12/02/09 4:50 pm
12/02/09 4:50 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,895
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Offline
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btour  Offline
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B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,895
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
From the article:

"At British Cycle Supply Company, for post-war 4-stroke British motorcycle engines, we recommend motorcycle specific oil with no lower a viscosity rating than SAE 50 or 20/50 (unless freezing weather is expected to be encountered, in which case a reduction to 10/40 or 40 weight can be made if necessary,) with the understanding that these engines will never be driven under load until warmed up."

So lots of people got on my case about warming my engine until the head felt "warm" to the touch. But here we have an expert suggesting to do that very same thing.

Also note:

"for forks, we recommend the viscosity specified by the manufacturer be used, but in a motorcycle fork oil, not in a motor oil or Automatic Transmission Fluid."

I also notice that the Brad Penn brand is recommended. It is one I have looked into if I have to switch from Spectro HD. My lubrication guy here, says his valvoline distributer has switched to supplying Brad Penn instead of the Valvoline Motorcycle Oil (also recommended). I have called the support, and although the expert at first gave me the same propritary BS, he did relent and divulge their blend. It is an SJ not just SG, but according to him their is not much difference, just a further refining of the product. But note, the more refined the base oil, the more additives they can add to "the chain".

To the point:

"Barb Dour of Megacycle Cams specifically warns against usage of current Castrol GTX and of Mobil 1, which in her experience have resulted in a disproportionate number of badly worn cams and followers"

Mobil 1 is a PAO synthetic. I see that Redline Synthetic Motorcycle Oil is recommended though. I do not know about Redline. Something can be called synthetic which Base 4 and is refined from natural gas, not petroleum. A PAO is different from that. So the label synthetic can be misleading. My experience with Mobil 1 gear box oil was bad. The PAO will emulsify with water much more than a conventional oil. I would not want that happening in my motor oil. I live and drive off season in New England, and condensation is a concern.

Some have stated that one can drive off the water if one rides hard and far enough. Perhaps. Maybe the oil going to the rockers would get hot enough, and if one rode far enough it would all get cycled through. But at 30 degrees the oil tank does not even get warm to the touch. So it would be a long ride indeed at 30 degrees. Brrrrrr. Nanouck of the North. Shades of the Michelin Man look.

Now do not get me wrong. Certainly we can ride our bikes in all kinds of horrible weather. And I do. But I am just pointing out that a good conventional oil as recommended by the manufacturer may be important to use instead of the Whiz Bang PAO synthetic, Because the PAO will emulsify with the water from condensation, whereas with a conventional the water will tend to drop out of suspension.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
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Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: btour] #286916
12/02/09 4:55 pm
12/02/09 4:55 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 283
Diamond Springs, Kalifornia
Buckshot1 Offline

BritBike Forum member
Buckshot1  Offline

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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 283
Diamond Springs, Kalifornia
I love the smell of Blendzall in the morning....


Michael

currently owned by a 72 T120R
maker of plunger conversion jig
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Buckshot1] #286934
12/02/09 7:45 pm
12/02/09 7:45 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,637
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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D
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,637
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Mobil 1 Racing 4T is ok for old Triumphs. It is the car version which has the wrong rating.

Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: dave jones] #286956
12/02/09 11:09 pm
12/02/09 11:09 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
meriden4ever Offline
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meriden4ever  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20L-Castrol-Classi...=item2ea8de36da

what about this offering from Castrol ?


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: meriden4ever] #286974
12/03/09 1:00 am
12/03/09 1:00 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 274
Angus, Scotland
mick2 Offline
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mick2  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 274
Angus, Scotland
i thought the halfords classic was priced ok compared to others?
getting 20/50 here is bit of a struggle to say the least.

Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: meriden4ever] #287004
12/03/09 7:49 am
12/03/09 7:49 am
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20L-Castrol-Classi...=item2ea8de36da

what about this offering from Castrol ?


Best price I have seen till now bigt


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Stuart] #287010
12/03/09 10:28 am
12/03/09 10:28 am
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 35
UK
S
silverrider Offline
BritBike Forum member
silverrider  Offline
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S
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 35
UK
Well, whichever way around the buy-out/takeover call it what you will occurred, I have been told by a retailer that Duckhams Classic is being phased out (stocks are running down fast)in deference to Castrol Classic. Marketing strategy aside, all I know is that I've been paying about 15 for Duckhams compared to the typical asking price of 20 for the Castrol Classic. Draw your own conclusions. I also buy Silkolene Chatsworth at around 23. I thought it contained minimal detergents so may have to rethink. As an aside, before the Fuchs takeover Silkolene was based about 8 miles from here and employed local people.


1968 Daytona T100T
1965 Royal Enfield Crusader Sports
Remains of a once upon a time proud Velo and bits of MGs
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Towner] #287012
12/03/09 10:32 am
12/03/09 10:32 am
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 35
UK
S
silverrider Offline
BritBike Forum member
silverrider  Offline
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S
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 35
UK
That seems a good price. That's the Castrol Classic I referred to in my earlier thread. I've seen it at shows and autojumbles this year priced at 20 for 4.5 litres.


1968 Daytona T100T
1965 Royal Enfield Crusader Sports
Remains of a once upon a time proud Velo and bits of MGs
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: silverrider] #287068
12/03/09 6:55 pm
12/03/09 6:55 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 119
Norfolk, UK
L
Lorenzo Offline OP
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Lorenzo  Offline OP
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L
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 119
Norfolk, UK
Thanks, guys - a great response with quite a breadth of opinion and preferences.

My personal preference is for the Castrol brand, for no better reason than that's what I've used in the past. Additionally, I'm firmly against buying mail order, and this alone would prevent me from considering some of the suggestions.
The contemporary literature I have for my two bikes lists Triumph's Castrol oil recommendation as GTX20W50, or XL20W50 as an alternative; neither of these at the time was bike-specific (or ever has been).
GTX changed to 15W50 many years ago; some empty bottles I found in the shed also revealed a change from API SG to API SJ. (A price of 9.99 for 5L. on one of them suggests these are very old bottles !)
As has already been pointed out, GTX oil currently available is a totally different animal - in the UK it's 10W40 or a 15W40 "high mileage" variant for petrol engines (both API SL) and a further 10W40 diesel-only version.

Castrol's present-day recommendations, from their UK website, are for Power 1 Racing 4T 10W50 (premium) or Act>Evo GP 4T 20W50 as a cheaper alternative. (Couldn't they have come up with simpler names, for goodness' sake ?)
I won't be using Racing oil of any sort, or synthetic, or part synthetic - partly for reasons of cost, but mainly because if I adhere to the original change intervals of 1500 mls. I think many of the trumpeted advantages (sorry) of these modern oils would be wasted.
Act>Evo 4T 20W50 (I think they've now dropped the GP bit) is a mineral oil (API SG) developed for BMW's and available in my locality for what seems an average price of 6.99 per L. but has the slight disadvantage of being available in pack sizes of 1L. or 60L. only.

A call to Castrol's Technical Dept. today confirmed that it would also be OK to use Classic XL20W50 (API SE); this comes in a more convenient 1 gall. size metal can and is also available locally, at 20 gall.

Other brands I've found in my area include:-
Halfords Classic 20W50 (API SE) at 16.99/5L.
Comma Classic 20W50 (API SE) at 13.99/5L.
Wilco Classic 20W50 (API SE) at 7.99/gall.

You pays yer money and.................


1978 T140E
1979 TR7V
1960 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
Waste not, want not.........Thrift is a virtue.
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Skeet] #287119
12/03/09 11:02 pm
12/03/09 11:02 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 119
Norfolk, UK
L
Lorenzo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Lorenzo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
L
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 119
Norfolk, UK
Skeet -
'R' has a well-known propensity to make gum - you could end up stripping your engine on a regular basis to scrape out the gorilla-snot........

Also, apparently, exhaust fumes containing castor oil can be almost as effective a laxative as actually imbibing the stuff.
Castor oil was used extensively in pioneer aviation and legend has it that British WWI fighter pilots sometimes suffered the unwanted side-effects of prolonged fume inhalation resulting from open exhausts - and equally open cockpits.
The more resourceful (or devious) of these kept a bucket in the cockpit for "emergency relief", and this would be emptied at an appropriate time (i.e. when flying over enemy lines).
I have no way of knowing if these stories are true, of course.

My warnings will probably fall on deaf ears; sick puppy or not, you are obviously an addicted 'R' connoisseur and I suspect beyond being weaned off it.........


1978 T140E
1979 TR7V
1960 Royal Enfield Bullet 350
Waste not, want not.........Thrift is a virtue.
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Lorenzo] #287127
12/04/09 12:50 am
12/04/09 12:50 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,280
Orleans Massachusetts
S
Skeet Offline
BritBike Forum member
Skeet  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,280
Orleans Massachusetts
Lorenzo, Great discourse on the positives & negatives of R. Best one I've heard in years.

Yes I've heard all of that in the past. Unlike our famous golfer and those idiot White House party crashers, I fully realize that one has to be accountable for ones shenanigans. You are absolutely correct that R gets gummy. Almost like STP. Not to worried about the old tractor though. For the amount of use it gets (Approx 5 hrs per yr) its influence should be almost nothing. Someday I'll lift the rocker cover for a looksee just for the heck of it. Just used to haul around the grand kids, occasional fallen tree, display, etc. Its days of working hard are over.

Did burn the stuff in my old MGA & XS 650 Y*M*H*. for years with no ill effects. Sold both about 5 years ago and the first thing I did was warn both new owners to get that stuff the hell out of there. Weaned off it, "no way" and yes, I am quite deaf. As far as the runs, Thankfully, I haven't had to "bail" out yet. grin
Skeet


Skeet Enjoy life....it has an expiration date..
1964 Hornet
1970 TR6R
1971 Norton
1972 XLH
Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: John Healy] #287280
12/04/09 7:12 pm
12/04/09 7:12 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,603
Shingle Springs, California
Roadwarrior Offline

BritBike Forum member
Roadwarrior  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,603
Shingle Springs, California
I posted an article on this board a couple of years ago on the changes in oil. The Castrol GTX or other modern oils today are not the same oil it was even 15 years ago. The formulation was changed to remove the additive ZDDP. ZDDP is the additive that is needed for motorcycles as the valve lifters in our bikes do not rotate as they do in modern cars. The ZDDP additive was removed because it destroys the catalitic converters on modern day cars. The only oils we should use are the ones specifically for use in motorcycles, or a good quality racing motor oil that has the correct additives. This is especially critical on a newly rebuilt motor. An expensive oil is much cheaper than replacing a damaged motor.

Here is a link to the article. It is about old british cars, but the same issues apply here.

http://www.foreignpartspositively.com/Article1.htm


Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



Re: UK engine oil choices [Re: Roadwarrior] #287290
12/04/09 8:00 pm
12/04/09 8:00 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Because of this ZDDP issue I called Castrol before I bought the Actevo oil. They affirmed that Actevo 20W-50 and Classic 20W-50 are not ZDDP reduced.
Castrol is promoting the usage of ZDDP in motorcycle oil:
http://www.castrolmoto.com/en/trizone/engine.php


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
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