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#285470 - 11/23/09 8:15 pm Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen!  
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Grandad Online content
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The Crypt - South East England



Spider is sick of having climate change shoved up his nose every time he picks up a newspaper or watches the telly. He is definitely in the sceptic camp, knowing full well that summers in the UK are just as ghastly as they were in the 1950’s. He’s been frozen stiff and soaked to the skin in mid-summer more times than Shaun has had to strip down his BSAs - and that‘s saying something! Spider is often heard muttering ,“Global warming - Bah! Humbug, just another excuse for the government to tax us,” as he crouches, wet and shivering in front of the fire at the ‘Half Moon and Seven Stars’ pub.”
As usual his fit of spleen has been worked into a cartoon:


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#285472 - 11/23/09 8:22 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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Kent
True, Grandad, I can remember being soaked day in day out riding to work in the summer as an apprentice. Shell even had to bring out new lighter waterproofs as our donkey jackets were too heavy and hot for summer use.

I get less wet and cold now as I don't wear waxed cotton, nope Gortex is a wonderfull thing...


KarlB
Big day has come and gone and still no idea what Project 50 will be!
#285475 - 11/23/09 8:43 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: KarlB]  
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#285476 - 11/23/09 8:49 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: JBMorris]  
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Central Virginia
Telly? You were looky! We 'ad nowt but a battery radio, rained 4 feet a day it did, and we all livin' in Gran's cowshed wi' no roof ...

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#285496 - 11/23/09 10:27 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Lannis]  
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Let's have a survey lads - Looking at things from your motorcycling/camping experiences, have weather patterns altered over the past twenty-thirty years?


--------------------------------

Don't nail that lid down - I'm still bloomin' breathing !!
Click here to see SPIDER cartoons!
#285531 - 11/24/09 1:32 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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Originally Posted By: Grandad
Let's have a survey lads - Looking at things from your motorcycling/camping experiences, have weather patterns altered over the past twenty-thirty years?


It's much wetter than it used to be; I have to pee way more often than I did thirty years ago. THAT'S how I know!

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#285532 - 11/24/09 1:50 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Lannis]  
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Gordon Gray Online sad
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I grew up in Tallahassee Florida and remember it snowing there (one light dusting) in the 50s.

I've lived in North Carolina for 27 years....I'd say we haven't had a good snow where I live for a few years but I haven't seen any other changes.

BUT.....the locals (my age) say that in the 50s they used to go to the river (The Yadkin) and cut ice out of it for the ice boxes....I've lived here 27 years and I've never seen any ice at all in the river, not even along the shallows. The locals say you could drive across the ice back then. I have no clue what that means...just trying to add to the survey.

Gordon in NC

#285591 - 11/24/09 1:04 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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Houston Texas
I would say in Houston here that, with slight variations, the trend is for the Summers to have gotten hotter over the 20 years I've been here. However, natural weather influences such as El Nino or La Nina temporarily tend to override this trend. As far as in England is concerned I remember brutally cold Winters in the North in the 40's and 50's and then gradually warming-up thru' the 70's when I immigrated.

As far as Global warming/climate change is concerned I tend to believe that it is happening based upon the predominance of scientists saying so coupled with facts on the ground. One scenario has it that England will tend to get wetter as a result of the climate change.

My 2c

And oh - a photo of the river Tees (County Durham/Yorkshire border) frozen over about 15 years ago think it was; however that was a freak Winter.


Last edited by Britbodger; 11/24/09 1:10 pm.
#285648 - 11/24/09 5:40 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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Kent
As a kid winters seemed colder but then I did have to wear shorts as a nipper to primary school, yep they were that strict. Plus, lets be honest clothing nowadays is much more efficient at keeping us warm and add to that comfy central heating. We had to fire up a real coal or wood fire when I was a lad, you tend to notice the cold a bit more because of that. Even my Dad's cars didn't have heaters that worked as well as our climate controlled modern vehicles. I've walked on frozen lakes in Brussels in the last decade, been off school as it's been snowed in for at least one day in the last five years. But I can also remember it being warm enough on Christmas day back in the 70 or 71 when I was about nine as we all got bicycles and went out on them en masse followed by a year later having to get the doctor in as someone had chucked a snowball with a stone in it smack in my eye. Weather is variable as hell I'm afraid and lets not forget we are at the end of an ice age. Instead of worrying about it getting too warm, shouldn't we worry about when the next one might start. I'd rather ride around in my shorts than get chased by Polar Bears... grin

Last edited by KarlB; 11/24/09 5:40 pm.

KarlB
Big day has come and gone and still no idea what Project 50 will be!
#285666 - 11/24/09 6:49 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: KarlB]  
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Here’s another thing I’ve noticed, the seasons appear to be shifting. 150 years ago, in the UK, snow always came when it should do - in MID-winter, that is, around Xmas. Didn’t Charles Dickens go on about it in his tales? Well now, I can’t remember when we last had any snow at Xmas in East Kent, but we often get quite brief, but heavy, falls right at the end of March . Just to show what I’m on about, here’s a picture of my back garden in March 2008. In other words our Autumns are warmer and severe winter conditions are now more often found in what should be spring.


--------------------------------

Don't nail that lid down - I'm still bloomin' breathing !!
Click here to see SPIDER cartoons!
#285677 - 11/24/09 7:51 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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Interesting timing for this post. "Climategate" has just been exposed:

http://www.climatedepot.com/


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
#285684 - 11/24/09 8:14 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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Britbodger sez:

"As far as in England is concerned I remember brutally cold Winters in the North in the 40's and 50's and then gradually warming-up thru' the 70's when I immigrated."

Immigrated or deported????? laughing


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#285688 - 11/24/09 8:27 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Rich B]  
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I agree that the seasons seem to be shifting. Snow generally a little later and spring slower in coming around. Whatever the reason or result we gotta put up with it.
But putting that aside
Grandad
I like the look of your garden in winter. Could you give me( us) a pic of it in full bloom. Despite my disreputable look I really like gardens and in my infrequent time without other chores like to do a little planting myself.
George


57 Woodsman
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#285702 - 11/24/09 9:49 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: George Elston]  
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Hi George,
Here's the same garden in mid-June earlier this year. I prefer messing about with bikes rather than gardening, but I like to see a colourful display. It's 'Her Indoors' who keeps my nose to the plough so to speak!


--------------------------------

Don't nail that lid down - I'm still bloomin' breathing !!
Click here to see SPIDER cartoons!
#285718 - 11/25/09 12:37 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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I'm with Grandad on the season skew theory. I remember 1 (count it!) White Christmas, be about 1955, when I lived in Dartford, Kent. Remeber plenty more "white Easters", usually about 6 or 7 hours worth, mostly from about 1966 on, incuding 1977, the year I emigrated. Out here about 50% white Christmas, fortunately mostly melted by Easter!


Mike, home is where we moor it.
#285733 - 11/25/09 1:57 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Mike Muir]  
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Grandad
Thanks for the picture. I could sit with an ale and admire that of an evening.

George


57 Woodsman
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58 Trailblazer
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64 500 Sport twin
61 Hornet

2001 W650
1966 W1
#285780 - 11/25/09 11:39 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: George Elston]  
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my wife and I have taken to calling it "global weirding" instead, as it just seems to be making the seasons more drastic in their swings and less predictable...


=================
/1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (in a friend's shed)
/1960 BSA Super Rocket Basket Case (in the attic!)
/1987 BMW K100LT nekkid
#285787 - 11/25/09 1:27 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: George Elston]  
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Me too! I'm into beautiful gardens and that is a beautiful one! Could just sit there drinking in the ambiance - beer as well grin

Not that I have one mind you - I'm ashamed of mine. blush

p.s. Don't see the Grandad's crypt in there grin

Last edited by Britbodger; 11/25/09 1:28 pm.
#285807 - 11/25/09 3:26 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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ricochetrider Online content
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Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted By: Grandad
Let's have a survey lads - Looking at things from your motorcycling/camping experiences, have weather patterns altered over the past twenty-thirty years?


i can recall that, as a kid, it snowed WAY more than it ever does now. my dad's brother and sister both lived "up north"- one lived in delaware and t'other in Kennett Square, just 75 miles +/- east of me here in good ol Pennsyltuckey. SOUTHERN Pennsyltuckey. we'd visit fairly often, and the thing i remember is that it ALWAYS snowed was snowy, bitter cold etc. the Pennsyltuckey Turnpike Commission USED to go as far as to put DRIFT FENCE up along stretches of turnpike to keep the roads clear of drifting snow. these days, they NEVER use drift fencing AT ALL. kids today wouldn't even know what that IS. snowmobile races and sled-dog races used to happen in PA as well- not any more

as late as the 1970's we used to snow ski in Virginia- that don't happen any more either, at least without a grand effort to MAKE snow. back in those days, there was no such thing as snow making technology. there would hardly be any skiing at all on the American East Coast without it today, as ALL ski areas rely heavily upon it. last i heard, the only ski resort relying strictly on natural snow here in the east was up in Maine.

maybe it's part of the 10,000 or 10,000,000 year cycle- i don't know, but south central PA is practically sub-tropical any more. there has been a HUGE change since I was a kid. hard to believe all the hype about global warming but i DO believe that climate change is real, i can SEE it.

as for the cause, well...whatEVER. it's a natch that we humans do more damage than good. if you don't believe me, take a drive to Sandbridge, VA or the Outer Banks, NC or to South Padre Island TX, or Steamboat Springs Colorado and have a look around. in my lifetime, all of these places have gone from ghost town to stupidly over grown and no longer fun to visit...look at Isla Muljares in Mexico- my old Texas hippy buddies used to go there to hang on the beach and fish and camp...that don't happen down there any more.

maybe you are one of the folks who JUST LOVE these places and their 20 story condos and insane traffic and the Spring Break madness...but that ain't MY idea of a good time. what i'd call "the country" keeps getting farther and farther away.

so i don't know about Global Warming...per se. but things have changed- and as far as I can tell, lots of this change has to do with the human quality of madly consuming or dominating everything in sight- and then some.

one thing i KNOW for sure- there are a few MILLION people who i'd love to see dug up in another billion years in their stupid S.U.V.s with a BIG MAC still in their MOUTH! or a few thousand Mall Rats found embedded in amber in Siberia or Guatelmala...

Last edited by ricochetrider; 11/25/09 3:35 pm.

"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

#285813 - 11/25/09 4:06 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: ricochetrider]  
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Excellent well balanced assessment richoche!

IMHO no one who isn't a specialist in the field can be certain one way or the other as to what is causing the current climate change whether it be by man, nature or a combination of both. Even a lot of specialists in the field can't even agree amongst themselves.

I tend to believe more the predominant view of most specialists/scientists who think that man-made greenhouse gases are contributing towards current climate change. An argument used by a lot of skeptics to disprove this theory is based upon the fact that previous climate changes took place that weren't caused by man. I personally don't swallow this argument, what I consider to be a spurious, for the reason that the often quoted major climate changes took place over billions/millions of years, with lesser ones over thousands of years and even lesser ones over hundreds of years. What is so different about the current change is that it is ocurring over such a short period of time compared with previous climate changes. This is what has gotten scientists so concerned...

Hopefully they are wrong but should we wait to find that out when its too late? Think the jury is still out and will be for a long time but still would rather listen to qualified specialists than some uniformed "speak from the gut" Glen Beck's, and the like, have to say on the subject.

BTW I'm not against coal-fired power plants as the technology is already in-place to remove almost all pollutions in the flue gas stream and Europe has the technology to even capture CO2.

My 2c

P.S. Agree with your other comments re-touristy places - a lot of the Texas Hill country has gotten like that Fredricksburg (?spelling?) being a very good example


Last edited by Britbodger; 11/25/09 5:18 pm.
#285827 - 11/25/09 5:35 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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George Elston Offline
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Well I promised myself I wouldn't get tangled up in this but I do have a couple observations one weather related and the other- who knows.
Firstly I have noticed in the last several years that there have been way more days with strong winds. Nowt to do with my ale consumption more likely due to more rapid change of high and low pressure systems. Reason? Don't know but I know it's happening. Then again it might stop just as abrubtly then what do you say?
The other more worrisome thing to me is the lack of night flying insects. Back in the day if you left your outside light on you'd be swarmed with bugs. Last couple years it seems the numbers are drasticly reduced. And I don't live in a green lawn development nor do I or my neighbors use any pesticides. Again Don't know why but it is a worry to me.
George


57 Woodsman
64 Interceptor
58 Trailblazer
59 Constellation
64 500 Sport twin
61 Hornet

2001 W650
1966 W1
#285829 - 11/25/09 5:43 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: George Elston]  
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hh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Britbodger
Excellent well balanced assessment richoche!
I tend to believe more the predominant view of most specialists/scientists who think that man-made greenhouse gases are contributing towards current climate change. ...snip... What is so different about the current change is that it is ocurring over such a short period of time compared with previous climate changes. This is what has gotten scientists so concerned...

Hopefully they are wrong but should we wait to find that out when its too late? Think the jury is still out and will be for a long time but still would rather listen to qualified specialists than some uniformed "speak from the gut" Glen Beck's, and the like, have to say on the subject.


Britbodger, did you happen to visit the link I posted above? The athropogenic global warming scare has been exposed as a hoax based on fudged data, corruption, collusion and lies. The Earth has been cooling for the last 10 years. Did you know that in the '70s the chicken littles were screaming about the impending ice age? This was also bad "science." I hesitate to use the word because it's not even science. It's guesswork with a bias all derived from fatally flawed models, just like the 9/11 tower collapse analyses. The science is few and far between, with the prediction already determined, and the data and assumptions fudged to fit.

Visit the link I posted: http://www.climatedepot.com/ or just google "climategate". The source of the dire predictions of global warming, the Climate Research Unit at Hadley, had emails that they attempted to destroy, after FOI requests, leaked on the net and they tell a sordid tale. Global warming is a political/religious movement, designed to part taxpayers from their money and throw it at hopeless "solutions" to a non-existent problem, while d*****bags like Al Gore get rich flying around in their jets, spewing 20 times the average person's amount of pollution just from their homes.

I'm not saying pollution and over-consumption isn't a scourge, but anthropogenic global warming has been proven to be a lie.


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
#285839 - 11/25/09 6:24 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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Grandad Online content
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Bodger mate,
My problem is not with the notion of climate change, which is to be expected in an inter-glacial period , but with the idea that all this is a new phenomenon and is caused solely by Man’s activities (as some would have it).
Ice-core data and pollen analysis have provided reliable evidence of the ups and downs of our climate over many thousands of years. Being an ex-scientist I follow this quite closely and there are significant groups of scientists who say that the rise in carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere are not the cause of the temperature change but the result of the change, because the warmer oceans (as expected) release significant quantities of dissolved gas, and that the atmospheric changes we see are mainly natural.
Also, there is a very large caucus of scientists which has registered objections to the man-made climate change argument, for a variety of reasons:
Have a look at these references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sci..._global_warming

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece

http://www.wisn.com/weather/18935841/detail.html

I find the calls for banning cattle farming (because of the methane produced) particular ridiculous. What about the vast herds of Buffalo that used to cover the prairies and the enormous hordes of antelope and elephants that once populated Africa. They must have mega- pumped methane for centuries before man exterminated them and replaced them with cattle and intensive grain crops (the latter gobble up CO2).
Another thing: I wonder how many thousands or even millions of years has the OZONE HOLE existed before we had the satellite instruments to discover it, resulting in doom and gloom mode! (again blaming it on Man!)


--------------------------------

Don't nail that lid down - I'm still bloomin' breathing !!
Click here to see SPIDER cartoons!
#285845 - 11/25/09 6:59 pm Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: Grandad]  
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Lannis Online content
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Originally Posted By: Grandad
Bodger mate,
... What about the vast herds of Buffalo that used to cover the prairies and the enormous hordes of antelope and elephants that once populated Africa.


That's obvious. When it comes to Methane production, the equation is:

[Vast Herd of Buffalo] + [Huge Herds of Wildebeest] = [One Graham]

You could hurt yourself trying to keep up ... !

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#285883 - 11/26/09 12:34 am Re: Global warming - Bah, Humbug! Spider vents his spleen! [Re: hh]  
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HH Yes-I had visited that link before I posted (thanks for the link).

As far as I am concerned, it has not yet been proven that anthropogenic warming is a lie. My reasoning is that on something as serious as global warming with the attendant potential drastic consequences there is bound to be controversy with those having their own particular agenda on both sides arguing their own case. In this regard, I try to ascertain who's special interest that the advocate, of what ever position the person or organization promotes, represents before making my assessment of their position. However, this is usually made difficult as the person or organization promoting their own position deliberately cloaks his/their true agenda in terms that would would be most easily swallowed by most people (example Iraqi invasion)

In this particular case, I do not claim to be qualified such as yourself and some others seem to be to make a judgment one way or another; however, to reiterate, the predominance of scientific opinion seems to be that man-made pollutants are contributing to global warming.

Thats where I'm coming from. Could be wrong and I hope that I am.

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