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clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) #276461
09/26/09 6:46 pm
09/26/09 6:46 pm
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
coletrain Offline OP
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coletrain  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
hey guys,
i have a clutch issue...it started slipping pretty badly a few months back...i thought it might be just worn out so i took the clutch apart and found there was plenty of material on the friction plates so i cleaned all the fluid off with brake clean and put it all back together and filled it with type f trans fluid this time...i just took it out and while it is alot better it still slips too much....the springs looked good and everything looked fine....any suggestions?

Last edited by coletrain; 09/26/09 6:47 pm.
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Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: coletrain] #276472
09/26/09 8:23 pm
09/26/09 8:23 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
See "Clutch Issues ,jfligg, 09/13/09".You can fix it for about $10,so it never slips again,and still have light spring-pressure.

Last edited by Pete R; 05/01/11 4:54 pm. Reason: 9/13/09
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #276484
09/26/09 11:26 pm
09/26/09 11:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,267
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,267
North Georgia, USA
Mr. Train -
Most 1970's mix the engine oil internally with the primary oil. Therefore you should not run ATF in the primary. ATF will only get into your engine and that's no good.

The most popular reasons clutches start slipping on 1970 and later is that owners put "automotive" oil into the engine, and not "motorcycle" oil. Newer car oils are super slick; good for the engine MPG, bad for the clutch.

If you find some oil like Mobil-1 that says "for wet clutches" or "clutch safe" they are most likely talking about the Jap style of clutch, NOT these antique Brit clutches. Best bet is the standard 20/50 mineral oil based "motorcycle oils" by Castrol, Vavoline, and others.

If this is the case, then you may need to disassemble and wash all the plates to get back to normal.


Last edited by RF Whatley; 09/26/09 11:31 pm.

Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: RF Whatley] #276492
09/27/09 12:44 am
09/27/09 12:44 am
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
coletrain Offline OP
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coletrain  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
haha i'm really confused now
i originally had castrol 20/50 motorcycle oil(said ok for wet clutch)

is there a way to know whether or not they mix?...i assumed it was seperate because it has it's own fill level plug and when i got the bike the primary side leaked and the level would get low...was that an unsafe assumption?

i'm about to take it apart again so i'll have a chance then to look for whatever i need to find so i know if they mix...i did clean all the oil off of the plates when i had it apart last night. I actually just got back from getting cork sheets to try the fix on the other thread...i was also going to deglaze the metal plates when i take it apart here in a little bit...should i hold off?

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: coletrain] #276497
09/27/09 1:12 am
09/27/09 1:12 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
One cork-lined plate is equal to three of the standard-type ones.No oil known can stop this from working.Its still a good idea to degrease the plates with solvent or detergent.
You have no choice of oil,other than your engine oil,because engine oil is shared with the chaincase.

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: coletrain] #276498
09/27/09 1:28 am
09/27/09 1:28 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,847
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Online content
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desco  Online Content
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D

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,847
Bishop, Calif.
unsafe assumption
Don't assume anything on these old turds, it can cost a lot of money. Do you have a Triumph shop manual for this year and model?
Not Haynes, not Clymer.
Most clutch problems are do to improper adjustment. It is a fine line between too much or too little.
Change your motor oil while your at it, the ATF has probably contaminated it.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: desco] #276504
09/27/09 2:03 am
09/27/09 2:03 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
A strong running engine will severely test a standard Triumph 6-plate clutch,even when its not worn or out of adjustment.
Sometimes they don't appear to be slipping,because they grab again between firing impulses (until they eventually cook).

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #276659
09/28/09 4:17 am
09/28/09 4:17 am
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
coletrain Offline OP
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coletrain  Offline OP
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Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
holy crap!!!
ok...so i took it apart again tonight to do the cork thing and when i took the damper off i saw my problem...all three of the screws that hold the back plate on(and the inside splines) had backed all the way out and for all intents fallin out(they did not have room to fall out to the bottom of the primary case)...so the studs that the spring go over were all that kept it from just spinning.
so after looked this cause a few problems..
1. the damper was not functioning as a damper at all as the studs were taking all the impact of the power stroke

2.the studs were recessed back into the damper because the back plate was sitting too far back in relation to the front of the damper so the springs were no applying enough pressure

3. the innermost steel plate was not engaging the damper at all...the screws being out brought the outside shell of the damper too far forward and the innermost friction and steel plate were not even being utilized

after seeing all of this it looks like a had the same basic problem discussed on the other thread it just didn't make too much sense to me untill i had already found it...haha

so i put them back in, tightened the piss out of them, used scotch pads on my angle grinder and deglazed the steel plates because they had a very thin layer of friction material on them from all the slippage(like disc brake that have been too hot) and changed the oil

NO slippage...in fact...it's like a new bike...in fact i MUST have had slippage i didn't quite feel since i owned the thing...thanks a bunch for the help gentleman(and or ladies)...:)

Last edited by coletrain; 09/28/09 4:19 am.
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: coletrain] #276669
09/28/09 6:06 am
09/28/09 6:06 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
Still a good idea to find yourself an extra steel plate.You've just seen how much difference one effective plate makes.Its unlikely that your spring pre-load was effected by what you found.
See how it goes in a few weeks,when it picks up a little more oil.Anyway,a good cheap fix.

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #276782
09/28/09 11:21 pm
09/28/09 11:21 pm
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
coletrain Offline OP
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coletrain  Offline OP
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Posts: 31
wichita, ks in the USA
the cork sheet that i got was from a pack of gasket material for making your own gaskets....is that going to work ok?

what have you used for your cork for this fix, pete?

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: coletrain] #276839
09/29/09 10:33 am
09/29/09 10:33 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
Gasket material is perfect if it is no more than 1/16" thick.Do it once and you'll never look back;and probably never, ever, have to do it again.

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #276991
09/30/09 5:05 am
09/30/09 5:05 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
USA, WA state
R
russrudolph Offline
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russrudolph  Offline
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R

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
USA, WA state
Pete R what is the procedure for adding a extra steel plate in the triumph clutch? Reading your posts it sounds like a great idea. I have 4 triumph 650's I would like to try it on. I have the extra plates. So I all I need is the knowledge, ( presently lacking)

1969 tr6c 3X
1970 tr6r

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: russrudolph] #276995
09/30/09 7:44 am
09/30/09 7:44 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
O.K. ;you have probably already notice that the innermost friction disc only has the lining used on one side.The other side just sits against the clutch basket and does nothing.So we glue a circle of cork ,no more than 1/16" thick,directly onto the clutch basket to replace this disc (using contact adhesive).
Fit a steel plate against that,and put all your plates back in.
When you have put in all that you took out,just put another steel plate onto the stack.You will need to bend 4 tangs on that final steel plate at 45 degrees,so it can't fall off when the clutch is disengaged.
Job done.You can set your springs up lightly because you have one extra plate and a cork lining which grips more than twice as much.
When I was a kid,Triumphs had cork linings on all clutch plates.

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #277017
09/30/09 1:16 pm
09/30/09 1:16 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
P
phantom309 Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
Guys, with a good clutch you shouldn't have to go through all this.


Tim Joyce
sponsors
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Works shocks
Glass from the past
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: phantom309] #277042
09/30/09 5:09 pm
09/30/09 5:09 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,219
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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John Healy  Offline

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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,219
Boston, Massachusetts
Heck Tim, with a pretty good clutch you shouldn't have to go through all this...

Geez, a well know West Coast "old time dirt" Triumph guy with a highly modified Triumph putting out a lot of HP, which he is known to use, has 5 after market Taiwan plates in his basket.

While there is a lot of discussion about plates, there never seems to be any discussion about springs: pressure, coil bind, length, pre-load. Different plates like different springs!
John


Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: John Healy] #277044
09/30/09 5:37 pm
09/30/09 5:37 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
P
phantom309 Offline
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phantom309  Offline
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P

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
guess that would be my point john, most problems are at the habds of the installer.Its always the clutches fault.Them west coast guys don't know sh-t either.:)Hey ,come look us up at barber , should be on the bottom pit row to the right.I got a beer for ya.

Last edited by phantom309; 09/30/09 5:38 pm.

Tim Joyce
sponsors
D@D cycles
Works shocks
Glass from the past
Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: phantom309] #277075
09/30/09 9:30 pm
09/30/09 9:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Blapper  Offline
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Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Overheard - a mechanic talking to a well known engineer over the telephone:

"Wait a minute - let me get this right - you want to make a system that transmits power from an engine to a gearbox, so you make a system of plates, friction material and springs that you operate with a lever? OK, that sounds alright - then you WHAT? YOU WHAT? You put it in an oil bath and it gets covered in oil? ARE YOU NUTS?"

laughing laughing laughing

Blapper redwine

Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: Blapper] #277094
09/30/09 11:27 pm
09/30/09 11:27 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,219
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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John Healy  Offline

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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,219
Boston, Massachusetts
Am I missing something or should I remove all of the ATF from my car's automatic transmission?
J


Re: clutch slipping issue (1970 tr6) [Re: John Healy] #277119
10/01/09 2:40 am
10/01/09 2:40 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
USA, WA state
R
russrudolph Offline
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russrudolph  Offline
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R

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 251
USA, WA state
My clutches work fine I just thought that was a great idea for a better triumph clutch. When I was much younger I had to redo (new cork disc's) on my 58 matchless G-12 very often due to slipping, and it was only 3 years old,finally ran without oil in clutch primary.


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