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To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27206
07/10/07 7:26 pm
07/10/07 7:26 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
JON BRYANT Offline OP
BritBike Forum
JON BRYANT  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
I have seen alot of info on charging systems , and am still confused . I have heard with out the zener it will burn out a Boyer ignition . If you look up parts , in regards to going podtronics , typanium , they claim it replaces rectifire , and diode . I am going to replace my entire Boyer , and typanium , because i burned out the box . I need a wiring diagram that makes sense , can any one refer me to the best book for a 67 a65 lightning . The previous owner hooked up these components , and it wasnt done right . The diagrams i got off brittcycle.com do not show enough info to help me . what happens to the diode cicuit ? if it is not being used .

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Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27207
07/10/07 7:48 pm
07/10/07 7:48 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Life member
Lannis  Offline

Life member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Jon -

The "diode circuit" is just one wire from the rectifier to the Zener diode, which is itself bolted to the frame as a ground. When the Zener senses voltage above about 14.5 V, it begins conducting current through this wire through itself to ground, so as to lower the voltage in the system. (This sinking of current to ground generates heat, thus the presence of the "heat sink" on the Zener mount.)

If there is no Zener diode or other voltage regulator in the system, not only the Boyer but the battery, rectifier, and alternator will burn out. You can't let the voltage go to 16 or 18 or 20 volts or whatever it wants to in the absence of some kind of regulation.

The Boyer will work fine with the Zener in the system. If you want to replace both the Zener and the rectifier with a Podtronics or Tympanium unit to both rectify and regulate the AC current from the alternator, you can just remove the wire that used to run to the Zener completely, it's not used for anything else.

The diagram that comes with the new voltage control unit (podtronics or tympanium) will show you how to hook them into the existing harness.

Go here:

http://piled-arms.com/tech52.html

for some modified BSA wiring diagrams using upgraded components ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27208
07/10/07 7:51 pm
07/10/07 7:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,100
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,100
Stone Creek OH USA
If it were mine, it would be Podtronics.

Here is a wiring diagram for your bike. It is shown as for a 500 Triumph, same wiring schematic.



To make the connection: from the alternator - green/yellow & green/black to 1 yellow lead of the Podtronics. White/green to the other yellow lead of the Podtronics.

From the Podtronics for positive ground, Black from Podtronics to brown/white. Red from Podtronics to ground

For negative ground, Red from Podtronics to brown/white. Black to ground.

They work best if major components such as headlight, engine, battery and Podtronics come to a single ground point on the frame. The tab for the rectifier makes a convenient point. Forget using the frame as a ground.

Once you wire in the Podtronics, the brown/white wire to the diode should have the end taped or better yet covered in heat shrink. It is no longer needed, the Podtronics does the work.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27209
07/10/07 11:24 pm
07/10/07 11:24 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
JON BRYANT Offline OP
BritBike Forum
JON BRYANT  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
This is what confuses me , there is no rectifire , the previous owner removed it . There is a large gauge white wire , that waslying down by the battery . I am not sure if this wire was originally going to the rec. , it has a large male spade conn. the same size as the diode . If the diode circuit went from the rec. to the zener , wouldnt that be a wire that is not in the harness , that could be removed . Is the rec. normally under the heat sink plate ? . My wire colors dont match schematics , I might have to do some wire tracing .

Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27210
07/11/07 3:01 am
07/11/07 3:01 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Jon -
Wiring in large part is determined by the switches (ignition and HL) that you want to use. If you simply want to turn the key and have everything operate, then maybe using the much simpler to understand 1970 wiring diagram would be better for you.

As you can see from Rich's diagram, the ignition switch for the 1967 is confusing and may take all night for you to understand, whereas the 1970 used a simple OFF/ON keyed switch.


The Zener has the only 3/8 inch spade connector on the whole bike. If the white wire you spoke of has that connector, then it went to the Zener.

If the harness has been butchered and altered by adding and deleting wires over the years, then give it up and simply buy or build a new harness. In the time it takes to troubleshoot a rats nest of wires, you can build or buy a new one. The electrical knowledge level of the average owner-mechanic being what it is, you'd have to start by stripping every single repair joint, making sure it's soldered correctly, and then adding heat shirk over the solder joint.

It just ain't worth your time or effort. And since the wire colors will change at every joint, we'll be completely unable to assist.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27211
07/11/07 10:24 am
07/11/07 10:24 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,823
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
BritBike Forum member
BSA_WM20  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,823
Sydney Australia
Gees, this is twice this week I have agreed with RF , something must be wrong.
If you do not have a good understanding of motorcycle electrics and you bike already has a butchered electrical system then toss the lot and start again from new.

In any case much of the original wiring will be well past it's use by date. There will be a lot of wires that are hard & brittle and most of the bullets will be loose due to the plastic shrinking.
99% of all of the breakdowns that we have on club runs are due to the rider's NEGLECTRICS

There are a lot of ways around the rectifing / regulating suitation using modern parts from oriental motorcycles which do not look the same as British ones so are a bit hard to find if you do not know what you are looking at.

If you are a dab hand with a soldering iron then go for soldered terminals but if not then use uninsulated crimp connectors ( buy them from electrical hobby type stores) and use a ratchet crimping tool and plenty of heatshrink. It might cost you a few more to do the job correctly but if you take the time to do it properly now, then you can just about forget about wiring problems till after you are drawing the old age pension.
Do it cheaply & wrong and chances are that you will not live long enough to draw the old age pension.

Also note where the wires are hard & brittle on your bike now.
When you make your new harness put heat insulating sleeves over the wires at these points ( fiberglass tubeing) it is not exactly cheap but then stopping dead on a roundabout because an alternator wire broke is not cheap either.

The point about a common earth is also well worth heeding.
I run a wire from the battery to a fuse then to the frame and an earth wire from the headlamp & tail lamp to the same earth point and if you use a podtronics then the same earth point for that as well.
Being a little **** I fuse both sides of the battery and I use the in line blade fuses with no problems.
On places that once connected never get undone I like to paint them over with a product called "liquid electrical tape" battery terminals and the common earth point are two such places where weather related corrosion can be a big problem.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27212
07/11/07 10:48 am
07/11/07 10:48 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,100
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,100
Stone Creek OH USA
RF

67 used the simple on/off type ignition switch. They still retained the rotary headlamp switch which is illustrated in the diagram. The headlight switch is definitely tough.

Jon

If you are able to rewire, that would be my suggestion. Get your supplies, sit down with a schematic, make your own harness. Incorporate your grounds into the harness.

If you don't feel comfortable doing a harness from scratch, contact British Wiring and get a new harness for your bike. Carefully adapt the connections of your electronic components to fit the new harness. Add your grounds externally.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27213
07/11/07 11:41 am
07/11/07 11:41 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich B:
RF

67 used the simple on/off type ignition switch. They still retained the rotary headlamp switch which is illustrated in the diagram. The headlight switch is definitely tough.
Rich -
I stand corrected, sir. You are absolutely right, 1967 was the first year for the ON/OFF keyed switch, but retained the rotary HL switch from 1966. When I saw the rotary switch schematic, in all it's radiant 3-stage diagrammatic glory, I must have had an LSD-induced flash back.

"RF" is quickly coming to stand for "really forgetful". Thanks for your input.

beerchug


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27214
07/15/07 5:02 am
07/15/07 5:02 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
JON BRYANT Offline OP
BritBike Forum
JON BRYANT  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
OLYMPIA WASH.
I can certainly attempt the wiring on my own since i am an auto mechanic by proffesion . I am more so curious as to why the harness apears factory in regards to connections , but is wrapped in electrical tape ,(entire harness) possibly been opened ? . I purchsed a new Boyer micro mkIII new 6v coils , and a podtronics . I have decided to strip her down and stop at no exspense , as to the comment about the schematics , simply that colors dont jive . not the lack of knowledge . if i can trouble shoot abs , and efi problems , i think i can figure it out . prefer to keep bike unmolested and as original as i can , unfortunately it came with some mods. And i said in my last thread , this is my first bsa .

Re: To zener or not ? 67 a65l #27215
07/15/07 1:13 pm
07/15/07 1:13 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Jon -
The original harness may be wrapped in tape because it came new in a woven cloth sheath that would bio-degrade within a couple of years. The Brits were very eco-minded back then. Way ahead of their time, I'd say.

If all the colors match and no wild, un-soldered wiring patches have been made, then I'd use the harness as you have it. If extra wires have been added on, then remember that we'll be unable to assist you since we won't know "what the purple wire is supposed to be doing". You may then, at some point in the resto, decide that a new harness is in order.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


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