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#261206 - 06/26/09 3:58 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
Joined: Apr 2005
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Mark Parker Offline
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Mark Parker  Offline
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Bega NSW Australia
'Pukekohe' yep thats NZ, some of us are in OZ just a little further over, visiting both places would be the go. These are some photos of last years classic event at Philip Isl. The bike in #7 photo looks very cool:
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/7184115_2Kigy/1/461287268_hw5rU#461296609_hhKqC
Wayne Gardner raced a classic 500 there a couple of years ago, don't know if he's still doing it, I'm sure you would have fun.


mark
#261215 - 06/26/09 5:36 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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johnm Offline
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Hi Tim,

If you need any help on Pukekohe (in New Zealand) let me know.

Its 5 6 7 th February 2010. Friday, Sat, Sunday.

Friday is a practise day. A pretty free format and especially as an overseas entrant you will have lots of chances to go out. (except if you want to take a 750 out with the prewar bikes)

Saturday and Sunday consist of about 50 to 60 races in total for all classes. Each class has about 5 races plus there are all in 500 and 750 races at the end of the weekend. The races are short however - usually only 4 laps or 6 laps so be prepared for short sharp sprint races where being at the front early is important.

Its a high speed circuit. The Ozzies say it is two drag strips with a corner at each end. The back straight is long and you can get winds either direction. I would estimate a good Manx would do about 120 mph down the back straight to give you an idea on gearing. No tyre warmers - no matter what the Ozzies do.

Facilties wize it is the crappiest circuit in NZ. The pits and facilites at most other circuits have been rebuilt in the past three years but Pukekohe, althought the closest to Auckland, hasnt had a cent spent on the place in years. There is a new circuit being built at Hampton Downs another 50 km down the road but it is not open yet.

There is a map here.

http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/fun-stuff/racing-circuits/pukekohe-park-raceway-pukekohe-new-zealand


Puke is 45 km down the motorway from Auckland. Puke has good enginnering and general materials available but no Brit bike spares avalable.

If you are coming out with your Manx then I expect you are doing it with Ken McIntosh.

http://www.manxnorton.co.nz/

He can get you licence info etc. But if not I can find the right contacts if you need them.

Again if you are with Ken you will have a good pit place reserved for you.

Fot the rest of us the format is to line up at the front gate before 8 am Friday morning and participate in the race to the best camping spots. Even Ginger Molloy lines up with the rest of us so you can talk with GP winners while you wait. Everyone camps Friday, Saturday, and lesser numbers Sunday nights. There is a dinner and prize giving Saturday and Sunday. Plus barbeques in the pits for those who chose not to go to the formal dinner. There are usually about 350 bikes entered and about 200 riders. If you don't want to camp then motels are available in the area but could be booked early.

Dont know about getting bikes from Pukekohe to Phillip Island at the end of Feb but it must be possible.

It would be great to see you here. I understand Schwantz is returning.

John

Last edited by johnm; 06/26/09 5:45 am.
#261249 - 06/26/09 1:04 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: johnm]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Thanks guys, like I said the manx owner just said maybe we could do this so its just in the beginning stages , now we need to come up with some plan and some $$$$$$.


Tim Joyce
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#261255 - 06/26/09 1:32 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Tom_dup1 Offline
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England
Nice looking bike Phantom! Any chance of seeing it naked wink?

I'm curious as to what the Aluminium looking thing is just forward and up from the kickstart rubber.

As far as eligibility is concerned is it a case of Seeley frames are eligible and so are Triumph engines, so a Seeley Triumph is eligible?

Tom

#261387 - 06/27/09 12:20 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Tom_dup1]  
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Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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California
Tom, now you NEVER ask a guy to take his best gal's dress off..!!

Ron laugh

Originally Posted By: Tom_dup1
Nice looking bike Phantom! Any chance of seeing it naked wink?

I'm curious as to what the Aluminium looking thing is just forward and up from the kickstart rubber.

As far as eligibility is concerned is it a case of Seeley frames are eligible and so are Triumph engines, so a Seeley Triumph is eligible?

Tom

#261388 - 06/27/09 12:23 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.]  
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Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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California
Tim, thanks for the kind words... you too B.B... Just trying to be of help. It does amaze me how sometimes stock parts are better than "high performance" items...

Now if I win the lottery, Tim and I head down under next year...

Cheers..!

Ron laugh

#261392 - 06/27/09 12:48 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
I will show you everything she has, soon as I get her naked.:)


Tim Joyce
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#261434 - 06/27/09 9:53 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Mark Parker Offline
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Bega NSW Australia
I just remembered something thinking of Ron's post about oil flow and rod side clearance, and have a question: what does the oil escaping out the sides of the rods do for oil pressure?
I'm sure if the rod has an oil squirting hole like L/H A65 rod, or commando rod it will lose a little pressure. The rods from Hondas first moto GP motor probably did not have over generous side play on the crank, because they have something else, little grooves in the upper thrust faces; have a look:



This is one of the alloy rods I use, which I guess would be similar to the MAP rods, it would be easy to put the 2 little grooves in the upper side faces that would allow more flow and also spray oil up at the piston, which could cool it. Maybe that might also get rid of some of the Triumphs excess oil pressure?



mark
#261445 - 06/27/09 12:15 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: t.read]  
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Britbodger R.I.P. Offline
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Houston Texas
Tony,

Great video of the Phantom on his new bike. Bike also sounds great - no mistaking a high performance Triumph on full song! Played it over an' over... bigt

And the look on that guy's face! As if to say "Wow! Now where are all the modern bikes - they're nowhere in sight?"

Good one of you too going into turn 5. Bike's so quiet with them mufflers had to turn the sound-up grin

Last edited by Britbodger; 06/27/09 12:29 pm.
#261456 - 06/27/09 1:43 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Mark, yes that looks like a map rod from a few years ago. If from srm it may be.You are along the right lines as I run squirters off the PRV to help cool the piston and rod.You don't want the oil to back up at the rod sides and if you can direct the oil up then that can't help but be good.Aluminum parts must be kept some what cool or its life is shortened very fast at high RPM. To the dyno today to see how the short rod compairs with the long rod.Although its 90DEG at 8:30 in the morning.

Last edited by phantom309; 06/27/09 1:44 pm.

Tim Joyce
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#261458 - 06/27/09 1:50 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Tom_dup1]  
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Britbodger R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
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Houston Texas
Some photos kind permission of the Phantom hisself:





#261541 - 06/28/09 4:41 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Thanks bodger, you know how my computer skills are.Just returned from my sponsor at D&D cycles and hats off to them for all the dyno time and staying late to help me out.I know when I got there there was something not 100% right with the set up but bike pulled good but something was not right and knew it was a tad on the rich side but after the first run it was way rich but would never stumble at all first two runs cam in at 62.5 hp/46fpt. not what I thought but it all made sence now.leaned the needles out and two jets smaller went to 63.5hp and 47.9fpt.Did this many more times till I reached 67.3hp and 49.3fpt.changed the muffler to a xr long supper trap that I ran at gratten the last weekend I felt made more power by the seat of the pants and wow 70.5hp and49.8fpt.This is all with 36mm mk2s.At this point I have made almost 20 runs and the Map cycle triumph was loving getting a thrashing, so time to put on a set of 40mm mk2's.Guessed at jetting and right away hit 69.7 hp and it was way rich.Droped from 440 to 400 and did a run of 71.9hp and49.3fpt.One side looked to be a little lean so went back up to a 420 and last run did a 72.6hp and 51.9fpt.26 pulles for the day and 10 hp more then I came with.Thanks MAP cycles and D&D cycles.Know this question is coming so answer it now the max power comes at between 7800 and 8000 .Max tq was at 7000.:) By the way this bike tipped the scales at 281 lbs with oil but no fuel.

Last edited by phantom309; 06/28/09 5:10 am.

Tim Joyce
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#261551 - 06/28/09 6:59 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Blapper Offline
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Kent UK
Here's some more detail. The adjustability of Tim's frame is awesome:









It is early days for me with the new pump set-up, no problems so far. Mine is a road bike and I am breaking it in. I got 60 PSI with the plugs out checking the return within four kicks! I have 70 PSI max and it is there from just over 1000 RPM. I haven't had any of the problems written about priming difficulties, loss of prime, inverting seals , burning oil or leaking, just a good steady stream of oil. Can't tell about cavitating because the oil at the top of the tank is always frothy due to the nature of the higher flow return on all pumps.

Blapper redwine

#261579 - 06/28/09 12:01 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Britbodger R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
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Houston Texas
Wow! Great info! thanks for sharing it with us Tim. Notice that the short rod is not quite up to your long rod output wise though - yet anyway....

Meanwhile at the other end of the spectrum, unfortunately I don't have access to a dyno except for one at a modern bike shop that charges $78 per hour session. Still might try them though. Meanwhile trying to get my Veypor Logger working - at the moment can't get it to do anything. frown Next step is to send it to Nonlinear Engineering (the supplier) to have a look at it.

beerchug


Last edited by Britbodger; 06/28/09 12:17 pm.
#261600 - 06/28/09 2:42 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Bodger , the two motors are so different, but are only a few points off from each other.My only concern with the pump now is at start up it pegs the needle aroung the pin.I have a dip stick heater that i can pre heat the oil that helps but we don't always have power at the track.Im going to try a lighter spring or shim the cap on the prv.This motor is so under stressed compair to the other one.I really ony threw it together to make Road america and Gratten so this thing has got at lot of potental.Many thanks to Mr. sharp for his head work and carbs and anything else I need on short notice.Im going to pull the top and see how she looks after two race weekends and 26 dyno runs but I really know she will be fine.With this frame the motor come aprt real easy.Im running 10.5 map pistons with aluminum cylinders with cast sleeves and of course map aluminum rods.We want to try plated cyinders but I had these ready to go so a test for later.If you look close in the one picture of the oil lines you can see my squirters on the bottom of the crank case. Would also like to thank Randy at Frame Crafters for a great job with the frame and aluminum work.Great guys to work with and we did most of it by e-mail and picture.

Last edited by phantom309; 06/28/09 3:01 pm.

Tim Joyce
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#261632 - 06/28/09 5:19 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Blapper Offline
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Kent UK
MAP Billet crank too I expect Tim?

If so, is it all balanced or 'as is'?

Blapper redwine

#261637 - 06/28/09 5:44 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Blapper]  
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shel Online content
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ohio
Is the ignition mounted to the crankshaft in place of the stator?


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#261654 - 06/28/09 7:07 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: shel]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
The crank in this one is a nourish but wish I had a map one to use as I like it better.I had this crank out of the other motor I put the map one in.The ignition is a crank triggered pazon and at gratten I ran all weekend on the little battery and still just dropped below 12v.Its got a 4 plug head too and total loss.Makes the timing real easy to adjust the way i mount it in the cover.

Last edited by phantom309; 06/28/09 7:08 pm.

Tim Joyce
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#261689 - 06/28/09 10:16 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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johnm Offline
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New Zealand
281 lb. Thats light.

I like the rear disc. Had a bit of trouble spotting it at first :-).

It is a very well preped bike. All the pieces are well made and tidy, right down to the tie wire - you have a good engineer preparing that bike. Its a lot smarter than my bike.

More seriously Im not sure about the fit of the Seeley frame to our rules in NZ. I have never had to check but it might be worth it before bringing it down.

Have you ever tried carb bellmouths this shape? The pronounced rollback seem to help on my Norton



Regards

John

Last edited by johnm; 06/28/09 10:19 pm.
#261729 - 06/29/09 2:34 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: johnm]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
John, the bell mouths in the picture Im not going to use but choose to use the stock mouth on the mk2. I have not tried the style you show but look like some I have seen on a tripple.o you have a link to rules.Don't want to think it might not fit but don't mind bumping up its always fun as long as the track is not like Daytona.:)


Tim Joyce
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#261985 - 06/30/09 4:13 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: phantom309]  
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Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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John, do you have a source for those bellmouths..? (I would like to try on on a Mk2 38 MM).

Thanks,

Ron

#261988 - 06/30/09 4:31 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.]  
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johnm Offline
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Hi Tim,

Our rules are the same as the earlier link about the fuel.

http://www.nzcmrr.com/rules.htm

I forwarded your photos to Ken McIntosh for him to look at. A quick discussion sugests the Seeley frame will be no problem but your brakes may be. Our latest class at Pukekohe is post Classic pre 1976. Which means the brakes must be pre 1976. Plus no Japanese major components. I dont know what your front suspension is and if it is Japanese or post 76 this is an issue too. Anyway Ken will know.

On the license he said you need a letter of clearance from your national body (AMA?). This needs to say your licence is current and not suspended.

Hope this helps

John

#261992 - 06/30/09 4:59 am Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: johnm]  
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johnm Offline
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Hi Ron,

Sorry I dont have a source for those ones. Thats a photo from Australia and we are not allowed to use carbon fibre anyway.

I made my own bellmouths this shape using fibreglass. They tested well on the flow bench against the sharper edged more common shape. The pronouced roll back is important. Dave Vizard reports this in one of his books. They flowed about 1 to 1.5 % better on the flow bench and also showed an increase on the dyno. Im using them on Mk 1 Amals

I have looked hard for the past 3 years to see if I can buy bellmouths like these but havnt found any yet so you might have to make them too. Im sure they must be somewhere ???

regards

John

#262051 - 06/30/09 1:50 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: johnm]  
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Mark Parker Offline
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Mark Parker  Offline
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Bega NSW Australia
There is some interesting info in this article, about bellmouths and other stuff, like effects of intake length and what it does to airspeed at different rpm, seems like carbon are better than alloy because they stay cooler as does the air going in, so if CarbonFibre is not allowed you could possibly make some in F/glass and vinylester resin so the fuel doesn't effect them.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0442/printArticle.html


mark
#262054 - 06/30/09 2:03 pm Re: New seeley TRIUMPH [Re: johnm]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
John, the forks them selfs should be good ,off a cb750 honda supersport.The rotors are leagal here but know the master cylinder would for sure have to be changed.No big deal to change rotor too brakes only slow you down, who needs brakes.:) Oh the front wheel is a xs 650 yamaha wheel of period and rear wheel shock triumph including rotor.

Last edited by phantom309; 06/30/09 2:06 pm.

Tim Joyce
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