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Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger #255597
05/26/09 1:45 pm
05/26/09 1:45 pm
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 26
USA
M
MrRippington Offline OP
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M

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Posts: 26
USA
Allo, Fellers, I'm thinkin bout installin an oil cooler on me ol '70 Tiger, 'cause on ol Rippington's highway runs the oil's gettin hotter than the frypan I cook me bacon in.

Any of you feller's know of a specific type/model of oil cooler that would fit discreetly, on the front down tube? I spose I'd mount a valve to manually turn it on for the days it's be helpin out with the sizzlin hot oil. Which vendor(s) sell the type of cooler that'd fit properly?

Ol' Rippington knows his 1970 Tiger runs a lot better on cool days than on hot ones, so based on that high tech assumption plus his scalding hot oil on them hot ones, he figures a good ol oil cooler might be a good idea, jus don't want to spoil the look of the bike, keep it discreet, ehh, good idea.

Appreciate suggestions for specific applications rather than fussin over whether or not is be necessary as ol Rippington's a stubborn ol codger an already made his ol mind up.

Thanks, fellers.

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Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #255611
05/26/09 3:59 pm
05/26/09 3:59 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,614
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
Norman Hyde---cooler on front down tubes plus a thermostatic valve.
HTH

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Tridentman] #255613
05/26/09 4:08 pm
05/26/09 4:08 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,268
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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North Georgia, USA
Please consider an oil filter instead for the following reasons...
• It also acts as an oil cooler
• It increases the oil supply, usually by about 1 pint
• It will actually do something very useful year-round, that is, it will pay for itself

Hope this helps! :bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: RF Whatley] #255617
05/26/09 4:18 pm
05/26/09 4:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Kent UK
(Sorry Richard)

I wouldn't have a Norman Hyde bog brush 'cooler' on my bike if I lived in Death Valley and there were no others!

Try Setrab USA:

[Linked Image]

I used the one on the left.

[Linked Image]

Fits neatly.

Blapper redwine

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Blapper] #255630
05/26/09 5:02 pm
05/26/09 5:02 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 730
Dordogne, SW France
johnnyrvf Offline
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Dordogne, SW France
I once bought an oil cooler kit for a H*nd* XR600 some thing like the 3rd from left in Blaps post, still have it , it was designed for a dry sump engine so there should'nt be any flow restriction problems HTH jOHNNY.


What d'ya mean it won't rev to 10?
1965 BSA A65D Lightning Rocket
1976 K*w*s*ki Z900.
1978 Triumph Bonn3ville (930 T160 Powered T140)
1988 H*nd* RC30
1990 Moto Guzzi California 3
1993 Y*m*h* TDM 850
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: johnnyrvf] #255638
05/26/09 5:28 pm
05/26/09 5:28 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,612
London United Kingdom
meriden4ever Offline
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Lockhart made an oil cooler specifically for British twins- I have one on both the TR65 and TR7T and they work excellently well !


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: meriden4ever] #255641
05/26/09 5:53 pm
05/26/09 5:53 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,614
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
Just FYI when developing the oil cooler on the Trident (I was Chief Applications Engineer for CovRad, who made the coolers) we did something very unusual and scientific for the UK auto industry at the time---we tried to find out how things worked.
One of the things we did was take a Trident into the full scale wind tunnel at MIRA (then known as Motor Industries Research Association) near Nuneaton in UK.
We attached small anemometers to the cooler and measured the airflow distribution across the face of the cooler.
You could actually measure much lower airflow behind the fork legs and behind the frame down tube.
The reason the Trident oil cooler sticks out a bit on each side is to get the edges into good airflow. We did experiment with a 6" length cooler rather than the 9" as fitted but the airflow was pretty bad.
This work was one of the reasons for the bog brush cooler designed for Norman Hyde---the cooler sees good airflow as it is not in line with the fork legs and is not obstructed by the frame down tubes.
So, sorry, Blap, your installation looks nice but the cooler is not doing as much for you as you might think.
Still, at normal bimbling speeds and not flat out all the time and at temperatures below about 30 deg C (86 deg F)then it doesnt matrter anyway.
Hope this bit of history helps.

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Tridentman] #255656
05/26/09 6:50 pm
05/26/09 6:50 pm
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 26
USA
M
MrRippington Offline OP
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Posts: 26
USA
Well I do like fettling, and hope to do quite a bit of bimbling so I'll check out all the above mentioned oil coolers. Meriden4ever, do you know of a vendor that sells the Lockhart one specially made for British twins? I did a serach and found that Lockhart coolers, but intended for Harleys, can be purchased with a thermostatic valve. I found that Setrab USA has an online store. Just gotta think of a good place to mount it where it gets max airflow, but doesn't look too outta place.

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #255664
05/26/09 7:10 pm
05/26/09 7:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Hi Richard,

As my 8" cooler isn't as necessary as the 9" on the trident, I'm happy with it's location. I knew that it wouldn't get full air flow there when I fitted it there, but it is - as I said in my post above - neat. Putting it where it gets plastered and peppered behind the front tyre was never going to happen, neither was mounting it so low that it shielded the rocker boxes and head too much.

I read elsewhere that the OIF's low oil capacity is less than it should be and that the oil can run hotter than ideal so I thought I would help it. The bike was, of course, designed when fuel didn't cause the higher combustion chamber temps that modern fuel does...

Most of my bimbling (you got that dead right) will be done on hot sunny days and that is around 30°C here.

I will be doing some measurements to see what temp the oil runs at when it's sorted. I can remove it entirely and revert to standard in a flash if necessary.

Blapper redwine

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Blapper] #255740
05/27/09 1:41 am
05/27/09 1:41 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 178
Orange Park Florida
JTsmks Offline
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Orange Park Florida
By far the best looking oil cooler I've ever seen on a bike was the factory one on my Royal Enfield Series II Interceptor. I'd like to find one lying around (the Bike or the cooler!)


"All parts falling off this bike are of the finest British craftsmanship"
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: JTsmks] #255753
05/27/09 3:20 am
05/27/09 3:20 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 786
in my house
K
KADUTZ Offline
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in my house
I believe the 400,000 mile RT used a Trident oil cooler


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Blapper] #741626
07/12/18 12:59 pm
07/12/18 12:59 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
UK
C
ChrisH Offline
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ChrisH  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
UK
Hi Blapper, would you have the part number for that Setrab oil-cooler ? It's not plagiarism it's flattery honest wink Been over their site but a positive ID would help. No worries, safe riding

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741628
07/12/18 1:26 pm
07/12/18 1:26 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,662
Scotland
kommando Offline
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Scotland
Doubt Blapper will reply

Blapper Offline

Last Seen 23 October 2017, 09:36

You can try PMing him but if his email address is out of date it will go nowhere.

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Tridentman] #741630
07/12/18 1:51 pm
07/12/18 1:51 pm
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 31
Canberra, Australia
Bikeosaurus Offline
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Posts: 31
Canberra, Australia
Originally Posted by Tridentman
Just FYI when developing the oil cooler on the Trident (I was Chief Applications Engineer for CovRad, who made the coolers) we did something very unusual and scientific for the UK auto industry at the time---we tried to find out how things worked.
One of the things we did was take a Trident into the full scale wind tunnel at MIRA (then known as Motor Industries Research Association) near Nuneaton in UK.
We attached small anemometers to the cooler and measured the airflow distribution across the face of the cooler.
You could actually measure much lower airflow behind the fork legs and behind the frame down tube.
The reason the Trident oil cooler sticks out a bit on each side is to get the edges into good airflow. We did experiment with a 6" length cooler rather than the 9" as fitted but the airflow was pretty bad.
This work was one of the reasons for the bog brush cooler designed for Norman Hyde---the cooler sees good airflow as it is not in line with the fork legs and is not obstructed by the frame down tubes.
So, sorry, Blap, your installation looks nice but the cooler is not doing as much for you as you might think.
Still, at normal bimbling speeds and not flat out all the time and at temperatures below about 30 deg C (86 deg F)then it doesnt matrter anyway.
Hope this bit of history helps.


Once you install your oil cooler you can judge its effectiveness by measuring Temperature difference between the inlet and out let pipes on the cooler with an infra-red thermometer (or a gloved hand) - typical for the one installed my Commando is ~30C/50F on a hot day. It's not a large cooler but it is in front of, and extends out past the frame tubes. If there's not much temperature drop then consider relocating the cooler. http://www.nortonclub.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf is worth a read - highest temperatures measured on a Commando (same general principles) were not high speed but idling without air-flow.


72 Tiger 650
72 Commando 750
74 Trident
84 BMW K100RS
A fleet of old cars
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741631
07/12/18 2:08 pm
07/12/18 2:08 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,549
melbourne florida
B
bodine031 Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,549
melbourne florida
Custom Chrome # 26412 $$50 mini oil cooler 2 here on my stuff the Hornet and the T-100 not sure if CC still offers it but there are some on E-bay
Also Ford & Buick use nice a mini power-steering oil coolers easy to adapt

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: kommando] #741637
07/12/18 4:05 pm
07/12/18 4:05 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
UK
C
ChrisH Offline
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Posts: 4
UK
Worth a shot, thanks smile

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: ChrisH] #741643
07/12/18 5:53 pm
07/12/18 5:53 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,262
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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S

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Posts: 10,262
Scotland
Hi Chris,

Firstly, welcome to the Forum. smile

confused You haven't posted what you want to fit an oil cooler to or why?

Regards,

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741654
07/12/18 7:58 pm
07/12/18 7:58 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,960
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Posts: 2,960
Elburn, Ill. USA
Blapper's note on capacity of the reservoir of the oil-in-frame Triumphs agrees with what one of my riding pals learned:

The filler for the frame was ORIGINALLY intended to be located near the steering head, but was changed to behind the seat because some "genius" in Umberslade Hall thought that owners would be foolish enough to think it was the
FUEL filler and would pour gasoline into IT, instead of THE TANK.

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741723
07/13/18 7:57 am
07/13/18 7:57 am
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 546
Pleasant Hill, California USA
T
TR7RVMan Offline
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Pleasant Hill, California USA
Hi Chris, It looks like you are in UK. That's often not considered a smoking hot region. Be careful you don't run oil too cold.

We ride in 100f often & many miles. The twins don't seem to need cooler. As was stated in city stop/go traffic is when they get hot.

I've seen spin on oil filters installed on T140 type bikes & 1970 & earlier. Norton type spin on. I don't actually see a real difference in the oil temp after adding filter. After 80 miles at 100f 60 mph everything is heat soaked the same filter or not. Nobody has oil cooler except the Triples. They seem smoking hot too.

It was said if oil cap was installed at head tube it caused oil frothing. Who knows?? The fuel in oil cap is another thing stated as was reported. Who knows??

In real life it doesn't matter. I've been involved with many OIF bikes. The OIF bikes work good with the oil kept up above min line. The motor doesn't suffer from this design. I've ridden both OIF & oil tank bikes & currently ride with others that have both types. No matter they both work good. On both you need to keep oil above min line. Seems a good idea to keep oil level at full hot.

Remember the oil in the filter doesn't help one bit if oil in tank is low. If tank is empty the motor is ruined no matter if filter or not. The filter does not give you more miles before you are at low line either.

However it visible makes the oil look cleaner longer. It prevents debris from passing through it. So if for some reason you get carbon or metal chips in oil the filter will actually stop most of them. Most the spin on filters have a 7 to 13# by pass valve so should filter clog, oil will still flow through filter. In real life the filters do a good job in stopping damaging particulates in oil.

I don't have enough experience to say the filter keeps sludge trap from filling as fast, but I think it would.

I don't know if oil cooler is needed for you, but a filter is a good idea.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741739
07/13/18 11:31 am
07/13/18 11:31 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,230
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
In my 71 factory manual it says the OIF oil content is 5 and a 1/2 pints, possibly what it was meant to be before the filler cap was moved from the headstock to the seat nose. This figure is wrong, total capacity is more like 4 pints at the max.
If i overfill the oil spine up to the filler neck, oil sloshes out the frame breather , perhaps if the top spine had been baffled the extra capacity could have been used. Occasionally I shine a digi thermometer at the oil after a decent run, spine temp max is about 55 C, this is in Scotland, where ambient seldom gets over 20C.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 07/13/18 11:32 am.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #741742
07/13/18 11:46 am
07/13/18 11:46 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,694
UK Berks
A
AngloBike Online content
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Posts: 1,694
UK Berks
People who say that "the OIF holds less than a non OIF therefore it must run hot" have rarely actually risen an OIF bike.
The whole frame becomes a massive oil cooler which works really well.
IMHO unless racing , in the UK, you'd be nuts to add a cooler. Certainly one that didn't have a thermostatic valve.

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: TR7RVMan] #741861
07/14/18 5:21 pm
07/14/18 5:21 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
UK
C
ChrisH Offline
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UK
Hi guys, thank you all for the replies esp. TR7RVMan, 'cold-seizure' point taken.

Blapper's 'cooler looks very Jagg.

Stay well

Last edited by ChrisH; 07/14/18 8:18 pm.
Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: ChrisH] #741882
07/14/18 7:55 pm
07/14/18 7:55 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,262
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi Chris,

Originally Posted by ChrisH
'73 Tiger

Use the Forum Search to find more of "Tridentman's" posts on the subject - one thing he hasn't posted in this thread but he has elsewhere is, having done the work for Norman Hyde, "Tridentman" told him the twins didn't need a cooler, Norman replied that they were what twin owners wanted to buy ...

There are significant differences between triples and twins. Firstly, a triple's oil pump shifts about six times more oil per minute than a twin's; a triple's oil cooler is an important part of a triple engine's cooling .

IIrc "Tridentman's" posts, the BSA/Triumph design brief for the triple's cooler called for it to maintain engine temperature equilibrium when the bike was ridden at top speed continuously in 125oF (~52oC). So, in GB, even a triple is significantly over-cooled all the time.

Originally Posted by ChrisH
I'm with Mr.Rippington. 4pts is barely enough

With respect, he wrote that nearly a decade ago, and hasn't even logged-on in seven years ... Knowledge about both Umberslade and oil, its properties and its requirements is more widespread now than when he wrote. A large quantity of cold oil constantly swilling around an engine is worse for the engine than a smaller quantity of hot oil; it's far more important for the oil to reach and maintain ~100oC, to boil off condensation and the water that's a by-product of combustion.

"Anglobike" has already made the point that the oif frame is a giant radiator. You're in GB; even if you plan to thrash your bike around the Med. for the summer, you'll do the engine more good spending on a proper oil filter than you ever will with a cooler. And, as "RF Whatley" posted for "MrRippington", the filter will add to the total surface area radiating any heat ... wink

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: Stuart] #741888
07/14/18 8:38 pm
07/14/18 8:38 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4
UK
C
ChrisH Offline
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Posts: 4
UK
I put a spin-on filter on the bike many years ago; having read and digested, think I'll leave it at that,

Cheers, Chris

Re: Oil Cooler that would fit a 1970 Tiger [Re: MrRippington] #742011
07/15/18 9:03 pm
07/15/18 9:03 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,614
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
Only just picked up this thread as I am on vacation.
Basically Stuart has quoted me correctly.
For a Triumph twin you do not need an oil cooler— the oil flow rate is very low by automotive standards and the heat carried away by the oil is small and coped with well by the standard set up— heat lost from OIF frame etc.
There is much more danger due to over cooling rather than overheating and this is doubly so on the three cylinder engine which has much higher oil flow rates therefore more heat to be dissipated from the oil— but it has a very efficient oil cooler fitted which itself over cools the oil in anything but the most extreme operating conditions— like flat out for more than 10 minutes in an ambient temperature of 125F or 52C!!!!
For a triple I recommend the fitting of an oil thermostat.
For a twin I recommend the fitting of a filter but not a cooler. The filter to get crud out of the oil system not to add volume— despite the old mother’s tales there is enough volume of oil in the standard OIF configuration.
HTH

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