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What type of tap and die set to buy? #254925
05/22/09 1:24 am
05/22/09 1:24 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
T
theageofindustry Offline OP
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theageofindustry  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
Trying to determine what type of tap and die set to get that would be the most useful. My initial thought was a whiworth set but Bernie Nicholson's MMM 7th edition makes whitworth out to be only really used on engine casings. He goes further to say that CEI thread is the most common and BSF considered to be used seldom.

Mostly going to be used on late 50's to late 60's Triumphs; just wondering what other people are using out there before I take the plunge.

Another thought is british tool and fasteners BSC econo bike kit. Just not sure how useful that really will be. http://tiny.cc/econobikeset

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Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: theageofindustry] #254949
05/22/09 8:10 am
05/22/09 8:10 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,952
Scotland
S
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,952
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted By: theageofindustry
set
to be used on late 50's to late 60's Triumphs;

Unfortunately, there isn't one 'set' that will cover 'em all. E.g. pre-unit Triumphs used Whitworth (BSW) threads in alloy engine cases whereas early units used BSF and later units (from about '68 on) used UNC. Then threads into iron or steel are Cycle (CEI) on earlier bikes and UNF on later bikes, and you'll find UNEF on some large, late components (e.g. axles).

And that's just the components Triumph made in-house. Component suppliers like AMAL used a mixture of Cycle, BA (British Association) and 40 tpi machine threads; Lucas mainly used BA but you can find UNF and metric depending on where a component was actually made. Then, modern pattern stuff usually (buy definitely not always crazy ) has metric threads where originals had an Imperial thread form.

Finally, almost always, if you buy a 'set', you'll have taps 'n' dies for large threads that you'll never use, and you'll still have to buy taps and/or dies for small threads that aren't in the set. frown

Ime, a better approach would be to look at diameters and have taps and/or dies in a selection of the above threads for the same diameters. E.g. engine case threads are almost always 1/4" diameter, with a few 5/16"; just the thread could be BSW, BSF or UNC. Likewise, 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" will be common fastener diameters whatever the bike's age, but the thread form could be CEI or UNF. Add in 2BA and you've got a good starter 'set'.

Three tools you will absolutely need are a set of thread gauges (for measuring tpi (Imperial) or pitch (metric)), a decent micrometer (for measuring diameters) and a machinists handbook for looking up the thread form.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: Stuart] #255033
05/22/09 7:54 pm
05/22/09 7:54 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
T
theageofindustry Offline OP
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theageofindustry  Offline OP
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Mankato, MN
Wow my head hurts after reading that. wink

So your saying that no one kit is used more than any other and I would be better off going through my parts books and ordering the pertinent taps and dies individually.

I find the complete non-standardization of hardware on british bikes to be the achilles heal of their design. That said, I wouldn't trade my brits for the world.

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: theageofindustry] #255044
05/22/09 10:03 pm
05/22/09 10:03 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
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jaycee Offline
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angeles city, rp
iwould recomend a complete set of BA taps and cei,cycle engineers inst from 1/4"to 3/8" in plug tap form MADE IN UK OR SOMEWHERE IN EU.this will do well in clearing holes in 90% of a bikes threaded holes and making the odd bit.do not use bizzare oriental taps which can produce oversize ,LOOSE fitting threads,CHECK THEM ON SOME OLD NUTS FIRST.

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: theageofindustry] #255045
05/22/09 10:03 pm
05/22/09 10:03 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
J
jaycee Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
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angeles city, rp
iwould recomend a complete set of BA taps and cei,cycle engineers inst from 1/4"to 3/8" in plug tap form MADE IN UK OR SOMEWHERE IN EU.this will do well in clearing holes in 90% of a bikes threaded holes and making the odd bit.do not use bizzare oriental taps which can produce oversize ,LOOSE fitting threads,CHECK THEM ON SOME OLD NUTS FIRST.

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: jaycee] #255055
05/22/09 11:13 pm
05/22/09 11:13 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
T
theageofindustry Offline OP
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theageofindustry  Offline OP
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Mankato, MN
Now it's all starting to come in clearly. I went through 4 Triumph parts books and they would only state Unified Height or OA and the only Beeser book I had was from 69 when the unified thread was very heavily introduced. Thanks for the help!

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: theageofindustry] #255075
05/23/09 3:07 am
05/23/09 3:07 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
Walridge cycle in Canada offer a set of taps that have served me well for nearly ten years on an awful lot of British stuff from this era . I have added a few things along the way but I found it to be a great starter kit for English bikes . You might try calling around to various vendors to find what is available .
FWIW BONZO

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: BONZO R.I.P.] #255087
05/23/09 6:03 am
05/23/09 6:03 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
J
jaycee Offline
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Posts: 727
angeles city, rp
fit is PARAMOUNT unless you love helicoiling thread forms please listen to what i said,im done.

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: jaycee] #255090
05/23/09 6:58 am
05/23/09 6:58 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,311
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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Wilfred Offline
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Wilfred  Offline
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Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
I just ended up with everything.....middle 60's BSA, Norton and mixes of Triumph from 64 to 73 pretty much says it all.....why couldn't I just stick with one make and one year....oh well, now I'm covered. Wilf.


"It's about the ride..."
Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: Wilfred] #255155
05/23/09 5:20 pm
05/23/09 5:20 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
T
theageofindustry Offline OP
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theageofindustry  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
Tracy Tools is now offering a thread chaser set that was featured in walnecks editorial a few months back. 16 dies; no taps as it's for bolts and studs only. I' think I'm going to try that out and order all the pitch gauges from brit cycle. Once I am more famliliar with what I use most, I'll start ordering the taps individually. Thanks for all the help.

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: theageofindustry] #255710
05/27/09 12:03 am
05/27/09 12:03 am
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 201
duncannon penna
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penna-john Offline
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duncannon penna
what you want are 26 tpi cei taps and dies, start with 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8 that will cover most of your needs, then add a 2ba its the smaller one that fits the amals, i found the best price from rdgtools in england- go to the eBay home page and at the bottom go to eBay by nationalitys and great briton- then search 26tpi taps and their auctions will come right up, i can usually buy a handfull of stuff for 12 pounds shipping, when the shipping changes to 20 pounds subtract one item till it goes back to 12 pounds- their email is rdgtools@aol.com if you dont believe in eBay- i got your p clamps if you havnt found them yet, email me at jfirkal@embarqmail.com

Re: What type of tap and die set to buy? [Re: penna-john] #255744
05/27/09 2:18 am
05/27/09 2:18 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
T
theageofindustry Offline OP
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theageofindustry  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Mankato, MN
Hey thanks for the tips; lurkingclass came through for me already so I'm good on the clamps but will look into the tap and die shop in UK.


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