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Piston Coatings #244944
03/25/09 6:10 pm
03/25/09 6:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
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Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
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I'm considering having my piston skirts and crowns coated. In this regard have made some inquiries with the companies that do it, and also the local auto machine shop, but would very much appreciate any input from anone who has used them whether positive or negative.

I do know that the car guys use coatings a lot

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Britbodger; 03/25/09 6:10 pm.
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Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #244960
03/25/09 7:23 pm
03/25/09 7:23 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,648
ca, us
D
DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
I asked a company in Arizona that does MoSO2 coatings for aircraft engines. They said it protects on break-in but does not last much longer than that. When I worked in the bike shop, a mechanic use "Impreglon" (a teflon type) and made the bores a tight fit to extend the mileage. He stuck the pistons in the bores while running it in but after removing the barrels he was able to push the pistons out without damage.
Weisco puts a coating on their skirts, maybe they can give some input.
A ceramic coating on top would help keep heat off the crown. There is a product called Rescor castable ceramic that is cured in a moderate oven. I intend to try using it on the exhaust ports after I flow them and add epoxy.

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #244995
03/26/09 12:36 am
03/26/09 12:36 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Check with mr map we were talking today about coatings and a comp. in nascar county that I have had many people tell me to contact them.Only remember his last name and it was Elliot.Be very carefull with coatings, some just come right off, like right now. Tom will tell you all about that.:)


Tim Joyce
sponsors
D@D cycles
Works shocks
Glass from the past
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #245050
03/26/09 2:05 pm
03/26/09 2:05 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 14
A
Andy F Offline
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I would also like to know more about these coatings. There is a company that advertises in Vintage Views. I am building a two stroke race engine and was thinking about getting the dome and skirt of the piston coated and maybe the combustion chamber.

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Andy F] #245057
03/26/09 3:43 pm
03/26/09 3:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
California
Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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I use Calico http://www.calicocoatings.com/ They have a coating for the pistons skirt and a different (thermal barrier) coating for the top. This is a company some of the NASCAR guys use, and in fact, one of the top piston manufacturers (that does coating too) actually recommended Calico to me..!

There are also all kinds of other types of coatings Casidiam for one, http://www.casidiam.com/appn_3.htm and http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/bdl/bdl101.html and another http://www.racecar.com/story.asp?NewsID=19584

And for cylinders http://www.bore-tech.com/ (You gotta love a Vendor that has a Manx as a back ground on his WEB site..).

And there are many more out there.... for instance I also use Precision Products to make my piston pins, much lighter than stock, much stronger and coated as well.

At about 2 am today, the Green Monster is "whole" again..

Cheers..!!

Ron

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.] #245077
03/26/09 5:20 pm
03/26/09 5:20 pm
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spfld vt
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phantom309 Offline
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Ron, got a rider yet?


Tim Joyce
sponsors
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Works shocks
Glass from the past
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Andy F] #245081
03/26/09 5:56 pm
03/26/09 5:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
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Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
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Houston Texas
I think you probably mean Swain Coatings. I have found them to very responsive to my enquiries and they seem to have a good reputation. bigt

HTH

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #245095
03/26/09 7:00 pm
03/26/09 7:00 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline

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I'm sending them a victor piston to build up so's I can salvage a barrel that is barely out. We'll see how that works out. For 30 bucks plus shipping, it's a lot cheaper than a new piston.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Alex] #245160
03/26/09 11:58 pm
03/26/09 11:58 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,113
Noblesville, IN
Jack Adams Offline
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Jack Adams  Offline
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Britbodger,I have been running coated pistons on the street for 7 years and I highly recommend them. The best part for you is that I got them done in your backyard,Houston. Polymer Dynamics @281-894-6382. Jack

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Jack Adams] #245173
03/27/09 1:28 am
03/27/09 1:28 am
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Charlotte NC
R
RHall-HCV Offline
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R
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 253
Charlotte NC
BB, Look up Calico Coatings in Denver North Carolina. All The Nascar boys use them. They are the best! You should also think about having your cams and wristpins DLC coated. Rob


ROB HALL
HCV MOTORSPORTS
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.] #245219
03/27/09 11:48 am
03/27/09 11:48 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
In Remembrance
Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
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Houston Texas
Thanks Ron for the recommendations - especially Calico also recommended by Rob Hall. Polydyne right here in Houston, as recommended by Jack Adams (thanks Jack) also seems to be big in coatings for NASCAR.

Wonder if anyone has heard of "line2line" coatings... Reason I ask is because US Chrome (NICOM)uses them for piston coating..

Good luck at Willow Springs Ron. Hope that you got the performance back after the disappointment at Daytona!

Like Tim curious if you found a rider and who that might be?
beerchug


Last edited by Britbodger; 03/27/09 11:58 am.
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Jack Adams] #245221
03/27/09 11:56 am
03/27/09 11:56 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
In Remembrance
Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
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Houston Texas
Thanks for your recommendation Jack. Definitely going to make inquiries with them.

Great meeting you at the Deland auction - did you buy anything?
beerchug

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #245242
03/27/09 1:58 pm
03/27/09 1:58 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,113
Noblesville, IN
Jack Adams Offline
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Noblesville, IN
BB, Great meeting you too. As far as the auction goes, I bought 3 lots of parts, but 1 of the guys I was there with bought that 750 MV F4, so it turned out good. But I did miss not seeing John H.,it just doesn't seem right without John there. Maybe next year. Jack

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Jack Adams] #245838
03/31/09 6:41 am
03/31/09 6:41 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
California
Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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Ron - in California R.I.P.  Offline
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California
Hi Guys..!

Nice to hear of other coating companies... good to know..! By the way, Bore Tech also has access to true Nikasil coatings that can also be used to (slightly) build up thickness in a cylinder.. not sure how thick it can be applied...

Yup, I got me a rider for Willow Springs all right....

But, hey guys, I heard a "rumor" the other day... wonder if it is true or not... I heard that ARMA may be working on offering support racing at Moto GP in July... True or fiction..? Gosh that would be awesome..!!

Cheers.!

Ron

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.] #245866
03/31/09 1:35 pm
03/31/09 1:35 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
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spfld vt
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phantom309 Offline
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Ron, that is the first i have known about that, never know that would be great.


Tim Joyce
sponsors
D@D cycles
Works shocks
Glass from the past
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: phantom309] #245869
03/31/09 1:57 pm
03/31/09 1:57 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Seattle
Funny, we were talking about how awesome that would be when we were at the GP last year but a)never thought it was possible and b)kinda dreaded thinking about conditions after the weather last year. They layed out a really nice roadrace course....


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Alex] #245871
03/31/09 2:11 pm
03/31/09 2:11 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 303
nashville, TN
t.read Offline
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nashville, TN
Hmmm, that would be cool. That layout was really nice, but the rain sucked. Hope to make it there in person this year and hope that it doesn't rain. Anyone placing bets on the championship this year? Stoner? Rossi?


Tony Read
AHRMA 176
'73 T140V
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: RHall-HCV] #245960
03/31/09 11:17 pm
03/31/09 11:17 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
San Francisco Bay Area
M
MarksterTT Offline
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Posts: 564
San Francisco Bay Area
BB, Kalgard used to sell their moly coatings Piston Kote & Gear Kote in quart cans. Applied to appropriately cleaned parts & cured at 275* F I believe. Don't know if they still market these products & I've used them but on street bikes that were sold before teardown so can't comment on wear, only that they are easy to use and gave piece of mind if nothing else. Now I wonder if Kalgard is still around...

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: MarksterTT] #245976
04/01/09 12:17 am
04/01/09 12:17 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
In Remembrance
Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
In Remembrance
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Originally Posted By: MarksterTT
BB, Kalgard used to sell their moly coatings Piston Kote & Gear Kote in quart cans. Applied to appropriately cleaned parts & cured at 275* F I believe. Don't know if they still market these products & I've used them but on street bikes that were sold before teardown so can't comment on wear, only that they are easy to use and gave piece of mind if nothing else. Now I wonder if Kalgard is still around...


Thanks for the info Mark. Think I may settled on Polydyn here in Houston tho' as recommended by Jack Adams (thanks Jack bigt )subject to a couple of more checkouts. On the phone to them today they seem to know what they're talking about.

Last edited by Britbodger; 04/01/09 12:17 am.
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #246081
04/01/09 3:40 pm
04/01/09 3:40 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
San Francisco Bay Area
M
MarksterTT Offline
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San Francisco Bay Area
Good to hear Polydyn sounds good to you, would you let us know what they recommend & prices when you get around to it? Mark

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: MarksterTT] #246109
04/01/09 6:17 pm
04/01/09 6:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Blapper  Offline
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Kent UK
Rossi. As long as he has a hole in his a**, he will be the favourite bigt

redwine

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: MarksterTT] #246148
04/01/09 11:11 pm
04/01/09 11:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
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Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline OP
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Houston Texas
Mark,

Polydyn recommends 0.0007" skirt coating thickness with a maximum of 0.001" (line2line says that they can go to 0.002" skirt coating thickness).

Polydyn charges $36 per piston for coating skirt and crown with about 3 days turnaround time. Of course the crown coating is a different material being mainly ceramic based.

HTH

P.S. Hope to obtain advice from a local NASCAR racing shop as to what their experience is together with their recommendations

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #248250
04/14/09 1:20 pm
04/14/09 1:20 pm
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
Greenock, Scotland
G
gearhead1951 Offline
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Greenock, Scotland
there are 3 main types of coatings (1) oil wetting dry film lubricants (2) oil shedding dry film lubricants and (3) thermal barrier

use (1) on all parts that need lubed or oil cooling (vlv springs ,keepers & vlv stem portion that contacts the guides)
(2) for those parts that need to run as oil free as possible (crankshaft , interior of crankcase and rocker boxes ect...)and (3) obviously for keeping the heat of combustion out of the metal (interior and exterior of exhaust pipes , inside exuast bowl and port , entire combustion chamber of head and top of the pistons down to the edge of the first ring groove)

this list is not all inclusive and I do not recommend any particular vendor

all these coatings , taken together , will make your machine run way differently than before ! you will have to retune the bike to make best use of the products

Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Jack Adams] #253077
05/11/09 12:26 pm
05/11/09 12:26 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline OP
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Houston Texas
Hi Jack,

Got my pistons, head, exhaust ports and exhausts back from being coated by Polydyn here in Houston based upon your recommendation. Service was prompt (4 days turnaround) and friendly. The coating looks good to me but then again I don't really know...

The coating on the piston skirts is about 0.0005" thick leaving me 0.004" piston/bore clearance (cast iron cylinder block). Hope that is enough eek

Engine is all back together ready for Barber May 23rd with, hopefully, some break-in time on the engine by then.

Thanks Jack for your recommendation bigt


Last edited by Britbodger; 05/11/09 12:38 pm.
Re: Piston Coatings [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #253108
05/11/09 3:08 pm
05/11/09 3:08 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
California
Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
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Ron - in California R.I.P.  Offline
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California
B.B. 4 thou should be fine... just be sure to fully warm the engine up before hitting the throttle hard..! Then let us know when you pass everyone.... heh..

Cheers..!!

Ron

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