BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
The Bonneville Shop JRC Engineering dealers
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
ChrisX
ChrisX
Lake Macquarie NSW Oz
Posts: 163
Joined: February 2012
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
18 registered members (Bob Buchanan), 234 guests, and 376 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
blayde54, Davenz13, Sean65, Rerock, pkuzyk
10477 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
NickL 84
franko 75
Triless 63
Popular Topics(Views)
747,753 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics68,834
Posts670,434
Members10,477
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Clutch slip, again or still... #251395
05/02/09 3:11 pm
05/02/09 3:11 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Sorry for the double posting, but thought it needed a new thread.

I have now put around 1200 kms on the bike with atf fluid in
New clutch springs and very tight.
Plenty free movement on clutch handle before disengaging.
I can certainly hear it when i put it in 1st, but no excessive grinding.
I put some marks on the twistgrip to see how much of maximum Im giving it.
To my surprise I found that I hardly ever use more than half throttle.
BUT(why is there always a but), after I found out that the bike has so much more to offer on the twistgrip I now give it a little more under acceleration, but it seems soon after(over half throttle) when accelerating hard I still have clutch slip.
The clutch plates are not glazed and the surface still seems soft.
I honestly dont think they have many kms on `em.

What are my options now?
Map, surflex, Hyde or should I look at something else or even stop using the bike the way it was intended?


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251399
05/02/09 3:26 pm
05/02/09 3:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave jones  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Make sure you still have 1/16" clearance at the pushrod, with the handlebar lever slackened right off. Also, the thing that made mine slip was too much oil in the chaincase. With the machine on its wheels and held upright use the level plug rather than measuring the oil out. It cured my slip.

Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: dave jones] #251401
05/02/09 3:37 pm
05/02/09 3:37 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ahh, silly me.
You may have nailed it there, with the oil level.
I wasnt being very precise when putting atf in it as I knew I would spill something when adjusting the iginition.
Ill check it right away and what a cheap solution that would be ;-)


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: dave jones] #251402
05/02/09 3:40 pm
05/02/09 3:40 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,096
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Offline
BritBike Forum member
btour  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,096
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Hi Ducknold,

I know The springs come in different lengths, and strengths. I have heard the T140, clutch plate is heavier duty than T120, and that a little sanding on a flat surface gives it even more bite.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: btour] #251406
05/02/09 4:04 pm
05/02/09 4:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Hey btour, duck.

Soon well have angry enthusiasts throwing stuff around in here ;-)
Ive also heard the sanding thing and ridden a Bonnie that had it done.
1st gear engagement sounds very grinding and Im not really sure it cured the problem.
But the T140 plates and longer springs may be worth checking if the suggestion by Dave doesnt help.
Cost is not an issue here as I will be taking it around europe this summer.
Ive tried standing in southern France before with something trashed and I wont do it again if I cant help it :-)
Mr. Healy has previously mentioned surflex plates and that might be the way to go if the easy/cheap stuff fails.


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251413
05/02/09 4:43 pm
05/02/09 4:43 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ok Dave.
I just checked the oil level by using the level plug and no oil came out, so that cant be the problem.
The pushrod has clearance, although I havent measured it precisely.
Now Im no expert on english measurements but according to google an inch is 254 mm and one sixteenth of that is almost 16 mm. If I gave it that much slack i dont think the clutch would work at all.
I have a couple of mms free movement in the lever before I can feel the pushrod getting into again.

Last edited by Ducknaldo; 05/02/09 5:41 pm.

*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251425
05/02/09 7:04 pm
05/02/09 7:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
I just ordered a set of Norman Hyde plates.
I noticed John recommending them in another thread
Anyone else has experience with them?


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251426
05/02/09 7:09 pm
05/02/09 7:09 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,669
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
BritBike Forum member
triton thrasher  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,669
scotland
Originally Posted by Ducknaldo
Ok Dave.

t according to google an inch is 254 mm and one sixteenth of that is almost 16 mm.


No it's not. Look again.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: triton thrasher] #251427
05/02/09 7:12 pm
05/02/09 7:12 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Yeah, I figured it would be near 1,6 mm and I have that much free movement.


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251431
05/02/09 7:34 pm
05/02/09 7:34 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
BritBike Forum member
desco  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
Where do you have that much free movement? There are five adjustments for the clutch. Pressure plate springs, pressure plate truing, handle bar free play, drive side push rod clearance and
timing side clutch operating mechanism. The handle bar is done last.

Last edited by desco; 05/03/09 12:24 am. Reason: clarity

1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: desco] #251497
05/03/09 7:29 am
05/03/09 7:29 am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Desco

At the pushrod.
I havent measured it precisely, but will do that today if guys think it could have anything to do with the slipping.
From a "naked eye" point of view Id say it has a little bit more clearance.
The bike has always had this problem(as long as I had it), also after having its clutch rebuild from a trusty "Meriden" shop.
I have a feeling the clearance hasnt got anything to do with it.
The drum looks like new, no dents or anything and the clutch seems to operate perfectly except this slipping when putting it under real heavy load.
I cant wait to get the Hyde surflex in, but I am well aware that the plates cant deliver if something else is wrong here.


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251502
05/03/09 8:58 am
05/03/09 8:58 am
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi Ducknaldo,

my clutch slipped too, when I got the bike, but the plates were old and glazed. I changed to the 7-plates conversion and it works fine since 4000 km now.

HTH
Ralf


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Towner] #251511
05/03/09 10:13 am
05/03/09 10:13 am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Towner
That sure brings hope.
Which brand did you put in?


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251519
05/03/09 10:48 am
05/03/09 10:48 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,476
Johns Creek,Ga
GaCracker Offline
BritBike Forum member
GaCracker  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,476
Johns Creek,Ga
Duck, I just installed this MAP pack in my '72 Tr6rv, and it made a world of difference. The old plates were not completely worn out, but depending on how much I adjusted, I either had slip, drag, hard to free, and finding neutral difficult. I run Valvoline 20/50 motorcycle oil for bikes with wet clutches.. This new clutch has cured all of that. Greg http://www.mapcycle.com/items.asp?Cc=Clutchkits&Bc= I should add that this kit is for post 1969 Triumph/BSA, so may not apply to yours, sorry.

Last edited by GaCracker; 05/03/09 11:03 am.

72 TR6RV
2004 Thruxton
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: GaCracker] #251526
05/03/09 11:24 am
05/03/09 11:24 am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ive been looking at those map plates too.
I like the fact that the friction material covers the entire plate, but then again, these plates are patterned, so it might not make a big difference.
I only decided for the Norman Hyde plates because I read Mr. Healy stating that he really liked them, but they were too expensive.
Since I live in europe I figured that the price for MAP and shipping would be almost the same and Norman Hyde will propably be delivered faster than MAP from over there.


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251576
05/03/09 3:11 pm
05/03/09 3:11 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 341
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi,

sorry, I don't know the brand - I got them from my mechanic. But they are offered at several shops:

http://www.triumph-spares.co.uk/
T120/T140 7-plate clutch conversion ..... 59.13
This conversion consists of 7 new plates with smaller friction area plus one new plain plate. Compared with standard it reduces problems of sticking, slipping, swelling, dragging and heavy operation provided the other components are in good condition. Use with existing 6 plain plates.


http://www.grintriumph.com/page2.htm

Ralf

Last edited by Towner; 05/03/09 3:11 pm.

Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Towner] #251609
05/03/09 7:31 pm
05/03/09 7:31 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
BritBike Forum member
dave jones  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Ducknaldo- Sorry those two things didn't do the trick but usually with new plates the clearance disappears as the plates bed in and causes slip. A whole turn on the adjuster is right I have found.

Don't stand at lights etc with the bike in gear and the clutch disengaged as this will ruin the clutch. Anything more than a few seconds and you should go into neutral.

My clutch seems ok at the moment (in a 67 650) although it might be because I am very light at a bit under 8 stone! It has the 60s style plates with the small rectangular fibre pads that look like they have been stuck on a bit all over the place unlike the modern types which have a neat set of close fitting pads. I have some 15W50 or 20W50 oil in the chaincase at the moment. I did spend some time getting the pressure plate dead level and making sure that the plates were free in the slots but otherwise I just followed my manual.

Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: dave jones] #251641
05/03/09 10:57 pm
05/03/09 10:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Thanks Dave

I did the adjustments again today, by the book and measuring every step instead of eyeballing it.
Now the weather is bad for a few days so I wont be able to test it before the weekend.
I hope it helps, but otherwise the new plates will probably arrive soon and help me out.
Getting the pressure plate level really is a struggle because of the movement in the drum, but when the new plates go in Ill have a second chance if it wasnt dead level the last time I did it. I should replace the springs also, just as a precaution then.
It seems I should use T140 springs instead of T120, although I havent looked into spring length and tension, thats what my searches on the forum led me to believe.
Im also quite skinny, about 10,7 stone, so at least I wont have to worry about exercise to fix the problem ;-)


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: Ducknaldo] #251654
05/04/09 12:21 am
05/04/09 12:21 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
BritBike Forum member
desco  Offline
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
How heavy is a "stone"????


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: desco] #251659
05/04/09 12:53 am
05/04/09 12:53 am
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,856
ohio
shel Offline
BritBike Forum member
shel  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,856
ohio
14 lbs.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: Clutch slip, again or still... [Re: shel] #251695
05/04/09 5:33 am
05/04/09 5:33 am
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Ducknaldo Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Ducknaldo  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 468
Denmark
Some stones are heavier than others...
Except in England of course laugh


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120

Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2