I put all the shim pack, etc., back in this engine as my objective was to cheap out on the bearing, rather than avoid the endplay setting drill. I like learning about all these things. I rode this one 20 more miles this evening, runs strong! Smokes some, I guess because I put real loose pistons in a rust-pitted bore?
Leon, My bearing box has an MS 11 on it also. I left my bearing manuals behind when I retired so I couldn't look up what the numbers mean. I've done motors both ways and in fact experimented a lot with setting end play with the roller bearing motor and perfected my technique with a dial indicator where now I think I would only have to disasseble the cases two times to get the right endplay clearance. The first time I tried it took me about 5-6 attempts before I got it right. The ball bearing worked fine for me also and is simpler for sure and cheaper.
Mr. Mike...Win......here's my email Henry28NCT@aol.com
any more specifics or 'blow by blow' info would be great especially about what i should do since i dont have the original shims....the info imparted already has been the key to a door i was uncertain about opening. also, do bearings come in different 'grades' or will one brand of a certain number be as good as another..would they all be capable of handling an engine versus say a mundane job such as a conveyor belt roller?? you know what i mean? alan many many thamks
Well, since you asked...............I wasn't gonna mention this, but the bearing I got is made in China. I thought it was going to be Japanese. Looked and felt great, though, as if I could really tell anything about it. I have nothing at all against our chinese brothers, but have you ever been in a Harbor Freight store? My brother fixes vehicles and equipment for his living, and this China thing is getting REAL hard to avoid. I googled the bearing and I think its rated for 12,000 rpm, something like that.
Yeah, but Japanese girlfiends are nice, too. With shipping I think it was about $55. But go look for your local bearing house, all they need is that number. I found a little bearing place a few miles away, in the shadow of the chicken factory. They can get me all kinds of pieces for different bikes. They can't find the three small seals for an A65 engine: behind clutch, crankshaft, and the points cavity. For them you have to buy those aggravating all black ones from a BSA source.......but I need to scan that bearing thread again. A local place can get you the gearbox shaft bearing, gearbox needle bearings, gearbox seal, wheel bearings, etc. For a lot less than I ever paid before.
I dug up my box that the bearing came in and it says MS 11 on it along with the letters BLJ. In small numbers above the MS 11 are as follows 1010N343. And Stamped on the side is RMS-9. If I had my old bearing manual from work I could tell you what all this meant...but theat was years ago. Basically the bearing was a ball bearing with a brass cage with no seals or shields on either side and it has seen about 6000 miles in my A65 with no trouble. I believe I paid about $32 plus shipping and I had it in a couple of days.
Mr. Mike...i guess what my thought is...how could the SKF bearing only be $17 and the KYK one is $43? of course they are from different 'stores' but would the SKF one be up to the job even if it's 'cheaper'in other words, is the last word the 12,000 rpm load parameter?? dig??
after reading this twice and meditating on the subject for a little while, I still have some questions about all this that maybe some of you can provide some light on....
what is the major difference between the roller and the ball bearings that make it so if the balls are used, end float does not need to be measured? I guess I really need to get a good grasp on what end float is, since my manual leaves me in the dark, or at least the shadows. The conclusion I originally drew was it was the amount the shaft protrudes the case when the two halves are back together; but once I read the value [.003"] I figured it couldn't be that since it sticks out way more than that. I have a few other guesses, but its getting to the point where I should really know the answer.
The other question I had is; the copper ring that was left in on the driveside case - is that the outer race for the roller bearing?
the way i understand it..in simplistic terms...endfloat is the lateral movement of the crankshaft in the cases when it's all bolted up ..the crank moves side to side a miniscule distance...the ball bearing 'captures' the crank and eliminates this shuttling back and forth to a better degree than a roller... i am still trying to get an answer concerning the quality/price of various ball bearings and if one that costs $17 at one store can be as good as one that costs twice or three times that much at another store...
A roller bearing is a two-piece deal. The outer race is pressed into the case and the bearing is squeezed between the crank and the alternator rotor, chain-gear, and spacer.
The two pieces can float side-to-side by a total of .003".
On a ball bearing, the entire bearing is pressed into the case and the crank is held to the bearing as stated above. Being one-piece, the crank is inherently bolted to the primary side of the case and can't move side-to-side (well, not entirely).
The roller bearing, by itself, is an improvement by providing a higher radial load (on a roller, more surface is gliding against the race than on a ball). The added end-play is just a result of this and doesn't add or take away from the reliability (other than it's not as simple to set up).
That's as best as I understand it, but I can't guarantee it's 100% accurate. But you get the gist.
Marc's got it. Here's another way of saying it. A roller bearing is a separable two piece bearing. The inner race of a roller is tightened up against the crankshaft cheek via the rotor nut. The shim cup and shims are between the bearing and the crank cheek. The outer race is fixed (interference fit)to the case. Once assembled the crank can slide back and forth. It is limited moving to the right by the thrust washer on the right side of the crank. It's movement to the left is limited by the lip in the outer race of the roller bearing. Before assembling you put the shim cup in and assemble the the crank and cases and then measure with a dial indicator the movement (endplay) of the crank. Then you diassemble and put in enough shims to you will have about .0015-.002 endplay. I personally shoot for .001, but you must have some clearance. If you don't the bearing will quickly ruin itself Therefore you must assemble once to measure endplay and then take it apart, put in the correct number of shims and bolt it back together again. If you are not very careful in your measurements or assembly you may have to take it apart several times to get it right.
Now the ball bearing is a one piece and and there is no sideways movement between the inner and outer races...except for a miniscule running clearance in the groove for the balls. So once the outer race is installed in the outer case, it can't go anywhere. The case is heated and the bearing dropped in. Once the case is cooled the bearing is locked in place. Next you slide the crank into the bearing and after putting the spacer, sprocket, rotor and nut on and tighten it up, the whole assembly is locked to the crankshaft and the crank does not move right or left so there is no need for a thrust washer as the crank will never come in contact with it so I leave it out. So it won't rattle around in there. Some assemblers actually take a little emery paper to the journal so that the inner race slides easier on the journal. It makes disassembly and assembly much easier and quicker. There is no need to worry about the inner race spinning on the journal because it is tightly locked to the crank cheek by the rotor nut....so always keep you rotor nut tight.