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#30343 - 10/20/07 12:07 am BSA bearings  
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Shane in Oz Online content
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Shane in Oz  Online Content
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Sydney, Oz
We seem to have had a run of bearing questions recently, with some very helpful answers.

I've updated our BSA bearing page accordingly.

Could some of you take the time to review the page and suggest any changes, corrections, additions, deletions which might coe in useful?

The initial info was dug out of parts books and service manuals. I don't have a complete set, so it's nowhere near complete.
BSA Club of NSW BSA bearing reference

thanks
Shane

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#30344 - 10/20/07 1:13 am Re: BSA bearings  
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John RGS Offline
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new jersey usa
Excellent reference source Shane. I hope folks understand and can appreciate the amount of time and effort it takes to compile this type of information. You could have posted it about fifteen years ago and saved me a lot of time. When I can get to those files, if I can add anything, I'll send it along.


,_o
_ -\_<,
(*)/'(*)

NOPGS #2
#30345 - 10/20/07 1:22 am Re: BSA bearings  
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snowbeard Offline
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Hi Shane, I read quite a few of your posts in my recent searches, thanks for putting this together and for updating it as well!

I will hopefully have some good answers for you about the Pre-unit A10 A7 QD crinkle hubs very soon!

in hopes of adding to the collective, I have a 1957 A10 Sptifire Scrambler that has the half width hubs, and I have read thru leespeedracing history page is correct for the year.

I believe these to be QD, as I can remove the wheel from the drive and brake. also the hub does look like the crinkle QD's I've seen on eBay?

I don't know how much earlier they were used, but at least we can say as late as 57... any earlier models??

and BSA10 supplied this info in response to my thread, just in case we want to list any and all possible replacements.
Quote:
According to BSA Service Sheet 703, the following are equivalents to BSA P/N 65-5883:

Hoffman or Timken LS.9, Skefco RLS7, Ransome & Marles LJ.7/8

cheers,

Graeme

with CA7A's addition of
Quote:
Nice 1638 is also good.
EDIT: the 1638 is a 3/4" inner diameter, the 1640 is the 7/8" inner that we require.

I'll likely be messing with the front in the near future too!

great project. bigt


=================
/1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (in a friend's shed)
/1960 BSA Super Rocket Basket Case (in the attic!)
/1987 BMW K100LT nekkid
#30346 - 10/20/07 11:13 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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DMadigan Online content
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ca, us
Hi Shane,
I can look up the triple bearings if you are interested. The thrust needle race in the primary cover is not stock Torrington. The 5 speed high gear bearing was a Hoffman. Hoffman is now part of RHP and that particular bearing is not stocked (another with same external dimensions is but the high gear IS the inner race on a 5 speed). Two needles are in the high gear. The 4 speed used a ball bearing and bronze bushes inside.
The timing gear had a bronze bush originally, later a needle. There is a small ball bearing in the clutch lifter plate to add to the list.
The OIF head tapered rollers use a particular outer race, your number I believe is the inner race only.

#30347 - 10/23/07 6:11 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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Phil in Germany Offline
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Phil in Germany  Offline
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Duesseldorf/Germany
Shane,

an update for you. The rear wheel bearing in the drum of the 69 QR-hub is FAG 6205-2RSR... At least it is like that at the rear wheel of my 69 Lightning...
One slight mistake I'd like to correct is the clutch rollers... Diameter is .250", length is .231 - .236", or 6,35 mm X 6,0 mm if you liked it metric.
Thanks for all your work and input!


Best regards
Phil
Duesseldorf/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
'75 T 160
'84 Yamaha SR 500
#30348 - 10/26/07 4:59 am Re: BSA bearings  
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BSA-KC Offline
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Dallas, TX
Hi Shane,

I don't know if this will help but I stopped by a bearing supply house here in
Dallas today to see if they might possibly have one or two of the bearings I
need for my 71' Lightning motor. I had the old ones with me as well as the ones
taken out of my 68' Lightning. The guys behind the counter chuckled a bit as I
explained that I was looking to replace these bearings which came out of a British
motorcycle almost 40 years old. They got the calipers and the catalogs out and
soon realised that they had four out of the five bearings in house and the 5th
(drive side main roller bearing) after one phone call was at another location
just outside Dallas. I was even more supprised than they were as I have been
told by many who helped me build my 68' that the drive side was one which had
to be ordered because -NO ONE'S GONNA HAVE THAT BEARING- So I asked him to make
me a copy of the page in the catalog where he found it.



I'm going back tomorrow to pick up the drive side bearing and plan to ask if he
can copy the pages where he found the other four as well. I will post them if
you think it will help. I am fairly new to bearings so this may all be common knowledge but
maybe it will help someone like me who had some questions about BSA bearings
but didn't know what to ask.

Hope this helps,

Casey

Oh, also $105.67 for all five bearings.


Thanks y'all.

1968 BSA Lightning Hard Tail
1972 BSA Thunderbolt

www.caseykinney.com
#30349 - 10/26/07 2:21 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
Good work, Casey. Totally appreciate you sharing the info.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#30350 - 11/01/07 5:21 am Re: BSA bearings  
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BSA-KC Offline
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Dallas, TX
Hello All,
It has taken me a few days to get back to this because of work. I returned to the bearing supplier to pick up the A65 main drive side bearing, in hopes of getting copies of the other catalog pages where the other bearings were found but the guy who helped me was not there. The other gentleman behind the counter was real cool, but didn’t understand what on earth I was talking about. (I should have brought my old bearings back in)
I have taken pics of each with it’s box in hopes that they might help with your bearing list and also maybe someone can let all of us know if any of these can not or rather SHOULD NOT be used in a 1971 A65L, and if not help us understand why.


I’ll start with the main drive side bearing. This is the box it came in w/ SKF p/n CFM 9A
It is listed as another “interchange” just to the right of the RHP-MRJA 1 1/8 on the catalog page I posted last week. The RHP-MRJA 1 1/8 is listed on the BSANSW bearing page for the A50/A65/A70 however it has a “J” after it just as my SKF-CFM 9 has an “A” after it. Neither of these letters are given on the catalog page above. Does anyone know what they mean? The guy at the bearing supplier said ”Who cares as long as the dimensions are the same” He thought it was odd that I “Just want to know”



Here is the bearing…



Has anyone ever seen/used this bearing from SKF? Does SKF make good bearings?
(Good enough to put in an BSA A65?) If not can anyone explain why so we can know what is acceptable to use and what is not.

OK, on to the drive side transmission bearing… The BSANSW has 1654-2RS listed as a part number on it’s bearing list for the A65 gearbox main shaft but does not list who makes it and it states that it is a sealed bearing. The bearing I bought is a KYK-1654-2RS SRI2. Anyone know what the SRI2 means?



Again, Is this a good/bad bearing to use?

Now for the timing side gearbox bearing… This is another SKF bearing with RLS6-Z and SKF on the bearing itself. (BSANSW list states Z = one metal shield) The BSANSW bearing list shows RLS.6 and RLS6-2RS but no “Z”.
Would it be ok to use a “Z” bearing for this application? If not, why?





The gearbox needle bearings I bought are the Torrington 1212. The one with the back on it has M-1212 on the bearing and the one without the back has B-1212. The BSANSW list has “-OH” after both Torrington M/B-1212 but mine do not. Are the “-OH” ones different? If so, how? Can ones without –OH be used?



I also happened to have my old oil seals while at the bearing supplier and for laughs asked if they might have something equal to them… I already have a new seal kit but they were only a couple bucks each so I bought the three they had just for the sake of posting them here to see if anyone had seen/used them in an A65 before.

For the gearbox main-shaft they had…



and for the timing side and clutch door they had…




They said that the inner diameter on these two were .5mm smaller than the old ones I had but that it wouldn’t make any difference. I can think of several places on an A65 where .5mm would make several things go very wrong but I don’t know enough about oil seals to know if this one of them? Any thoughts?

Oh, one last thing. I have wheel bearings I am using that I didn’t see on the BSANSW bearing list. I have them in a rear conical hub and they are supposed to be = to eachother.



The front end on my 68’ Lightning bobber is from a later model BSA B50 MX. It has a 20” front wheel and a 6” conical hub. These are the bearings used in that wheel too. That front end was used on the later Triumph TR5T as well as a few other TRI/BSA’s so it shouldn’t be too hard to check but I don’t have any manuals for those bikes.


I hope at least some of the part numbers can be helpful to the BSANSW and if anyone has any info on these specific bearings it would greatly appreciated. I really don’t plan to put them in my motor until I know enough about them to do so, so PLEASE no one read this as “These are the bearings I think should be used in a BSA A65 because I found them locally and cheap” It’s quite the opposite, after all when it’s too good to be true .. blah blah blah.

Thanks everyone
Casey


Thanks y'all.

1968 BSA Lightning Hard Tail
1972 BSA Thunderbolt

www.caseykinney.com
#30351 - 11/01/07 10:56 am Re: BSA bearings  
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Shane in Oz Online content
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Thanks for the info everybody - keep it coming.

Ive got a lot on at work at the moment, but should be able to update in about another week.

#30352 - 11/10/07 6:30 am Re: BSA bearings  
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DMadigan Online content
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DMadigan  Online Content
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BSA-KC, SKF is a well known company. You should not have any problems with their bearings. I am not sure of the "J" and "A" designations, possibly the grade. Your counterman apparently does not know that ball bearings come in different grades so be a little cautious about what he suggests as a replacement.
The -OH on the Torrington needle refers to the oil hole in the outer shell. If you look in the gearbox there is a hole drilled above the needle to allow oil into the bearing. You can use the non-OH type but probably not recommended in heavy or high speed use.

#30353 - 11/15/07 1:27 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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retired-fireman Offline
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BSAKC you must be careful talking to counter jockies who give such offhand remarks about bearings. What is VERY important is the CLEARENCE built into the bearing, if you look at the last picture one bearing states " steel C3" which means it is a "C3" clearence bearing which has extra clearence built into the balls and the track it runs in. From memory roller bearings in later A65's drive side cranks had "CN" or nothing on them which means they are a "normal" clearence bearing "condition normal" When we fit the outer ring of these bearings into our crancases we first heat the cases to make the bearing's hole expand to fit the outer ring. We then drop the cold bearing outer into the case and it just drops in but when it cools the cases interference fit clamps the outer ring to stop it from revolving and in doing so slightly crushes it's id. The same when you drift the inner rollers track onto the crank you slightly expand the inner track of the bearing. Now BSA of course knew all this and machined the crank and the case hole so when it all comes together the bearing would have the correct fitted clearence. An example is the timing side bearing in 650 and 750 Triumph twins, all must be C3 or three spot clearence bearings. Bearing come in C3,C2 C1 and CN or can be expressed in "spots" or if no spot or no C number they are normally CN condition normal. John Healy wrote a teriffic and informative thread on bearing clearences on the "Triumph board on this site look it up and he explains it to perfection. Same I think for the A65 gearbox main bearing it was a C3 condition from memory. Do NOT fit any of the bearings you have into your bike until you find out from some one who knows what CLEARENCE the bearing should be and as fo the cloun stating the oversise seal dont matter of course it don't matter it's not his bike! Some of the factory workshop manual will state in their specs what clearence the bearing should be it's contained in the bearings number. Hope this helps

#30354 - 11/23/07 11:57 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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BSA-KC Offline
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retired-fireman
Thank you very much for the info. I had not checked the triumph board for bearing info and I now have lots more info.

DMadigan
Thanks for the info on the -OH, I'll take them back and get the right ones

Thanks again guys !!!


Thanks y'all.

1968 BSA Lightning Hard Tail
1972 BSA Thunderbolt

www.caseykinney.com
#30355 - 11/24/07 5:46 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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BSAketcase Offline
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wisconsin
I noticed on the bearings page, unless I'm reading it wrong, there are no bearings listed for a rear QD hub for a '68. I'm about to do mine and was curious if anyone had found bearings that will fit these hubs yet?
thanks
Jason

#30356 - 11/24/07 7:43 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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norbsa48503 Offline
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Flint,Mich
Also called the crinkle hub listed as
Hoffman
LS90RS
See NICE bearing company here in the states.
It's a:Bearing Number: 1640
go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ then search part: 6384K83 and 2349K661 for the brake drum.


norbsa
1960 TR6
1963 Super Rocket
1965 650 Star
1966 441
1968 Thunderbolt
1969 Twinkle 250
1972 Fastback
1974 Roadster
1970 S.S
Way too many BSA's not named
http://decentcycles.com
#30357 - 11/24/07 10:51 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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BSAketcase Offline
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wisconsin
so if I'm reading this right, I'll need 2 #6384K83 for the wheel and 1 #2349K661 for the drum?

also are the wheel bearings the same for the front?

#30358 - 11/25/07 12:57 am Re: BSA bearings  
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black13 Offline
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black13  Offline
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vancouver,b.c.
I am using a RHP mrja1.1/8jc2 bearing {main}........is this the right one to use , thanks guys


"HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM"
#30359 - 12/13/07 2:26 am Re: BSA bearings  
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BSAketcase Offline
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wisconsin
just checkin back again. I need to order the bearings for my rear wheel. Are the part numbers I listed above the correct ones?

#30360 - 12/13/07 4:23 am Re: BSA bearings  
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norbsa48503 Offline
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Flint,Mich
Yes you seem to have them right.


norbsa
1960 TR6
1963 Super Rocket
1965 650 Star
1966 441
1968 Thunderbolt
1969 Twinkle 250
1972 Fastback
1974 Roadster
1970 S.S
Way too many BSA's not named
http://decentcycles.com
#30361 - 12/13/07 6:22 am Re: BSA bearings  
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BSAketcase Offline
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BSAketcase  Offline
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wisconsin
thanks norbsa, off to the bearing supply

#30362 - 12/13/07 11:06 am Re: BSA bearings  
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beltdriveman Offline
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Where you have 'larger radial internal clearance'....Larger than what?
Should it not read ' A bearing with a larger internal clearance than a standard bearing'.
In my experience you normally only find standard internal clearance beaings on bearing dealers shelves with other internal clearance ones having to be 'found' if they on the shelf of some other dealer or back in the head office store.
Standard bearings are NOT normally marked either on the bearing or on the box. Some manufacturers mark the boxes CN which I assume means clearance normal.
I will leave someone else to give the reasons for different internal clearances but will list them in tenths of a thou of an inch (0.0001 inch)for a ball and roller bearing to fit a shaft of over 24mm and including 30mm. For other sized bearings the internal clearances will be different

From my olde Hoffman book.
Ball C2(oo) 0-4.5.
CN 2-8
C3(ooo) 5-11
C4(oooo)8-16
Roller C2(oo) 4-10
CN 10-14
C3(ooo) 16-20
C4(oooo)20-24
Yes I know the they missed out 15 but thats what the book states.
As I remember it a C2 bearing is used where both the outer and inner are light push fits, a CN is used where either the inner or outer are a interferance press fit . A C3 is used where both the inner and outer are interferance press fit and a C4 is used where both the inner and outer are a interferance press fit and where temperature changes to the shaft and or housing will change the internal clearance.
Methinks you are on a hiding to nothing especially as , apparently, the manufacturers standardised something about the time Norton were producing Commandos which confused Norton totally (See Motor Cycle Sport Jan 77. Pages 27/28)
Incidentally just to confuse further my olde Hoffman motor cycle bearings book states for BSA NOTE. All bearings supplied 'ooo' fit whilst my Ransome and Marles and SKF books dont mention it!!!
As I said, you are on a hiding to nothing.. best of luck.
PS According to the olde Ransome and Marles drawings a gent once dug out of the cellersof the Newark factiry for me for the original AND ONLY superblend bearings ever used by Norton(6MRJA30) they were supposed to be 'CN' fit. On my internal clearance measuring jig the remaining two new ones I have come up as low C3 (ooo)..
Yours. Confused by it all..

#30363 - 01/25/08 1:43 am Re: BSA bearings  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
I have another number for gearbox main shaft seal. I hate those all black plastic looking ones from the bike parts places. I used SKF 15142 and seems to be working just fine. It looks like the National seal pictured above, but has some kind of green coating on outside. I'm going to put another one on another project this weekend.

#30364 - 03/20/08 8:40 pm Re: BSA bearings  
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BSA-KC Offline
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Dallas, TX
I've been searching for more bearing info. I pulled these straight from the Consolidated Bearings online catalog.

http://www.consbrgs.com/index3.html

Gearbox Door (timing side) Ball Bearings= to Hoffman L.38


Gearbox Drive Side Ball Bearings= to Hoffman 9554/V4
This page has "Notes" at the bottom. I have not yet learned what they mean.


OIF front and rear wheel (and several others) Ball Bearings = to Hoffman 120


Drive Side Main Roller Bearings = to Hoffman RM.11L (this is basically the same as the photocopied catalog page above)


If I am wrong about any of these or any of you feel that these should not be used as reference for A-65 bearings please let me know so I can edit, correct, or remove the post. Don't want/need wrong information staying up here.

I was not able to find the transmission needle bearings in the Consolidated catalog. All I could find in a google search was this:



I called three bearing suppliers here in Dallas and each has both B1212 and M1212 but none have a part number B1212-OH or M1212-OH. One told me that they simply do not exist (ones with oil holes) Of course we all know that they DO exist and I know they are available at all the usual Brit parts suppliers.

I came across these which helped and may be of help to others.





More to come?

Casey


Thanks y'all.

1968 BSA Lightning Hard Tail
1972 BSA Thunderbolt

www.caseykinney.com
#225702 - 11/28/08 3:02 am Re: BSA bearings [Re: BSA-KC]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Bump. Took me so long to find this, too tired to read it right now. The new search didn't help worth a ****.

#225733 - 11/28/08 1:12 pm Re: BSA bearings [Re: leon bee]  
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Ob1quixote Online content
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Maybe the thread could be pinned?


When singing "Kung Fu Fighting" is outlawed, only outlaws will sing "Kung Fu Fighting"
#226102 - 11/30/08 6:51 pm Re: BSA bearings [Re: Ob1quixote]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
I bookmarked just this thread, that seems to work.

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