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Clutch adjustment question #217502
10/07/08 4:48 pm
10/07/08 4:48 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
Y
yellow_cad Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
yellow_cad  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Y
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
Of late, I am experiencing problems downshifting into first gear about 30% of the time. My gearbox is up to the correct level with Redline MTL and my final and primary chains are the correct tension. While it was suggested that I might have oil contamination on the clutch plates and should clean them, a local Norton guy told me that I might try a half a turn on the clutch rod adjuster screw before I started taking things apart. At this stage, I have a couple of questions. While this bike ran fine for the year or so that I have had it, the clutch cable at the lever was at the end of its adjustment. The adjusting nut was at the end of the threaded portion. In other words, there was no threaded portion to go into the lever. Before doing any adjusting of the clutch screw, if the clutch lever was held on, the kickstart would kick free. After I adjusted the clutch screw (the one with the lock nut through the primary case hole) according to the manual, the kickstart would not kick free with the clutch lever pulled on so I adjusted the screw in until it did kick free. Does this all mean that my clutches are worn past adjustment or should I turn the screw in further (say a half a turn at at time) to see if it remedies my problem of not wanting to go into first gear.


Jim

1970 Triumph Bonneville
1973 Commando Interstate
1971 OSSA MAR
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Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: yellow_cad] #217563
10/07/08 9:29 pm
10/07/08 9:29 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,584
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,584
Springfield Nebraska
You always have to adjust the lever screw back out again after adjusting the clutch. Normal.

When you say you have trouble "downshifting" into first, I presume you mean from second. If so, that might be more of a tranny problem. If you mean from neutral, then it could be a dragging clutch, caused by out of adjustment, dirty plates, or worst, the dreaded grooved inner clutch hub.

Hopefully your adjusting cured the problem.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: Richrd] #217646
10/08/08 11:31 am
10/08/08 11:31 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dennis B, R.I.P.  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD


YC,
I disagree with your local Norton guy.
If you haven't been inside your primary yet, you should.
It's a simple job. You will need a clutch spring compressor.
take off the footrest, disconnect the wires, lay this over your muffler over a THICK rag.
drip pan in place, remove the 3/4 nut, remove cover.
if you find any sealer here, clean it all off and replace the big O ring with a new one.
remove adjuster, install compressor, take clutch apart, keep things in order.
a magnet is a helpful tool when doing this.
wash everything in clean solvent (I use gas) and inspect.
the plain discs may need to be scuffed up
check the hub for notching, and the friction plates for severe spline ware.
An extra plain plate installed first can extend the life of a notched hub.
(if it will fit) clean the inner and outer covers.
replace everything, in order.
Back off cable adjuster at handlebar, screw in clutch rod adjuster to resistance,
back off turn. Lock down.
Replace cover and footrest, install 7 oz. type ’F’ ATF.
If you still have the slack cable problem at the handlebar, you could try one of those extenders (looks like a ferrule with a split) down on the tranny end.
Otherwise you would need to resolder the nipple at the lever.
Don’t overfill the tranny, I keep mine just a little bit low.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Dennis B


Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
'72 Combat Commando
'71 Triumph Blazer
'69 Victors
'68 Starfire
'51 Royal Enfield 250 'S'

Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: Dennis B, R.I.P.] #217700
10/08/08 3:55 pm
10/08/08 3:55 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
Y
yellow_cad Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
yellow_cad  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Y
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
In the Haines manual there is an illustration of an improvised clutch spring compressor. There are no dimensions in the illustration. What would be the diameter of the short piece of tubing that would actually contact and compress the clutch spring?


Jim

1970 Triumph Bonneville
1973 Commando Interstate
1971 OSSA MAR
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: yellow_cad] #217753
10/08/08 7:50 pm
10/08/08 7:50 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dennis B, R.I.P.  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
YC
I don't know about the tubing ??
here is a link with a picture
http://www.oldbritts.com/ob_start.html
click on 1972
go down to tools
p/n 06-0999
I would recomend you buy or borrow one
that spring can be dangerous!
HTH
Cheers
Dennis B

Last edited by Dennis B; 10/08/08 7:56 pm.

Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
'72 Combat Commando
'71 Triumph Blazer
'69 Victors
'68 Starfire
'51 Royal Enfield 250 'S'

Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: Dennis B, R.I.P.] #217953
10/09/08 8:34 pm
10/09/08 8:34 pm
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 301
Connecticut
maylar Offline
BritBike Forum member
maylar  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 301
Connecticut
My homemade clutch tool is a cast iron cap for 4 inch pipe, with a hole drilled in the center. The thru bolt is a hard steel 1/2-20 about 4" long. It's worked well for over 30 years.


Dave from CT
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: yellow_cad] #218025
10/10/08 7:36 am
10/10/08 7:36 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 98
oklahoma
K
knifesmashr Offline
BritBike Forum member
knifesmashr  Offline
BritBike Forum member
K
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 98
oklahoma
If you get into the clutch and remove the assembly don't forget to replace the clutch centering circlip wtih a new one. Just went through the non-adjusting sticking clutch thing myself. That was the culprit in my case.

Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: knifesmashr] #219329
10/17/08 10:51 pm
10/17/08 10:51 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
Y
yellow_cad Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
yellow_cad  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Y
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 536
Folsom, CA
I went into the clutch of my Mk I 850 to clean it up and have a look see. Dennis, your post helped greatly as the manuals do not do the greatest job of explaining the clutch service. With the clutch all cleaned up there is approximately .015" to .020" of room between the stack height with diaphram spring and the large snap ring. My clutch has bronze plates. What would be best to use to increase my stack height? Do I understand it correctly that the fiber plates are superior to the bronze plates? What about oil contamination of the fiber plates?


Jim

1970 Triumph Bonneville
1973 Commando Interstate
1971 OSSA MAR
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: yellow_cad] #219331
10/17/08 11:05 pm
10/17/08 11:05 pm
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 243
Seattle, WA USA
Dr_Hiller Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dr_Hiller  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 243
Seattle, WA USA
Yellow_

I've got similar clearance issues and have ordered four .065" plates to replace my three 0.080" plates. Not the cheapest solution (and they're backordered - so another delay), but that'll get my stack-height up to where it needs to be.


Ride safe,
David
--------------------------

1971 Norton Commando (parts bucket mongrel)
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: Dr_Hiller] #219340
10/18/08 1:04 am
10/18/08 1:04 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 338
FLORIDA
A
Alan Prudhomme Offline
BritBike Forum member
Alan Prudhomme  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 338
FLORIDA
Sometimes the clutch operating lever will jump out of position (the lever the clutch cable fits into in the trans)while you have the clutch is apart for cleaning. This is a very common problem. I always slack the cable all the way at the handle bar lever and pull the furrel out of the lever. If it's out of position, remove the inspection cover and push it down and in while tightening the adjuster on the clutch hub. Once the adjuster is adjusted it will hold it in place, only then adjust the handlebar lever. I would strongly advise you to get rid of the bronze plates and replace them with BARNETT friction plates. While your clutch is apart check your steel plates on a flat piece of glass for flatness, warped plates cause drag and shift problems.

Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: yellow_cad] #219381
10/18/08 10:33 am
10/18/08 10:33 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,106
McKellar,Ontario
Kommandokenny Offline
BritBike Forum member
Kommandokenny  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,106
McKellar,Ontario
Originally Posted By: yellow_cad
height? Do I understand it correctly that the fiber plates are superior to the bronze plates? What about oil contamination of the fiber plates?


The fiber plates would be better if your running a belt. If not, just clean up the bronze plates.

The clutch issue used to be a lot of fun around here.


If Norton made an airplane,would you fly in it?
Re: Clutch adjustment question [Re: Kommandokenny] #219682
10/20/08 10:23 am
10/20/08 10:23 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Dennis B, R.I.P. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Dennis B, R.I.P.  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 888
Annapolis, MD
Hi YC
I think you will find the manuals do not do the greatest job of explaining in several areas.
One of the things that make this website such a great asset.
On my 750 I use 5 friction discs. I use a bronze disc in first, then 4 Barnett plates.
With 1 plain disc between all.
Barnett plates work fine in type F ATF. Some people soak them first before installation.
I just put them in dry. Works for me.
I think Barnett made a change for the better with their discs.
I recently bought a set of 4 Barnett discs from MAP
These have a much thicker base metal, and thinner friction material.
I have never had a problem with the friction material wearing out
because the splines would always wear out first.
(Looks like the teeth on one of those little warrior dolls)
These look like they will last longer.
Once you find the sweet spot with the stack height
you will have an effortless clutch.
HTH
Cheers
Dennis B


Member # 182
'73 750 Commando
'72 Combat Commando
'71 Triumph Blazer
'69 Victors
'68 Starfire
'51 Royal Enfield 250 'S'


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