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mr britsh
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MOV frame number location #215293
09/24/08 10:51 pm
09/24/08 10:51 pm
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
G
GROG Offline OP
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GROG  Offline OP
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G
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
I have a pre war racing MOV that has been on tracks since before the war till now with only a maximum of 12-14 years off, having a little rest in the period between finishing modern racing and the start of historic racing.

It has had the drive side case replaced with a stronger locally cast item that was a common 'tuning' mod back in the 50s so I don't have engine number. However, one of the old guys who used to race it thinks he has the original somewhere in his shed.

Meantime, I was trying to find the frame number and was going to see if it is possible to date that it from that. Does anyone know if this is possible? Did Velo have a system and record numbers? Did the frame number tie up or match the engine numbers on these machines?

But,I can't even find the damned frame number!!!!
Anyone know where it is located?

I am the 6th owner of this old warrior, and I recently discovered, the 4th owner who was a member of the same sporting/racing motorcycle club! There have beenother owners in between, but she seems to keep coming back to the fold..ha!

Hope someone can help,
Cheers,
Greg

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Re: MOV frame number location [Re: GROG] #215296
09/24/08 11:27 pm
09/24/08 11:27 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,402
New Zealand
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johnm Offline
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New Zealand
Hey Greg,

I should have told you about the racing MOVs in Nicks shed.

There are two of them - known as the Joyce brothers MOVs. Both have full dustbin farings and were well known in the South Island in the 50s. Owned by the same chap who has the ex Arthur Wheeler Mk 8 KTT. I shall have a look at them tonight and see if I can help

I shall also consult with the NZ Velo experts and see if anyone can answer the question. Off to Taupo for the weekend with new exhaust, new tyres and rejigged carbs. Hope it all hangs together. Away to europe monday so you wont hear from me for a bit. The new forum style means I cannot post from my phone anymore.


Cheers

John

Re: MOV frame number location [Re: johnm] #215361
09/25/08 11:57 am
09/25/08 11:57 am
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 89
England
Dawg Offline
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Dawg  Offline
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England
I'm pretty sure it should be located up on the headstock lug on the front downtube part. Most have been filled with paint so are difficult to see. Have a scratch.


1958 Velocette Venom
1960 Norton Dominator 99
1964 Velocette Venom Clubman Mk1
Re: MOV frame number location [Re: Dawg] #215430
09/25/08 9:05 pm
09/25/08 9:05 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,402
New Zealand
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johnm Offline
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New Zealand
"it should be located up on the headstock lug on the front downtube part"


Thats where it is on the spring frame bikes but we looked at 4 rigid frames last night and didnt find any noes.

OK Im an idiot.

On a spring frame they are indeed located on the top frame tube under the tank just before the seat lug on the right hand side. What was i thinking!!

But i still cant see anything on a rigid frame.

John

Last edited by johnm; 09/26/08 6:08 am.
Re: MOV frame number location [Re: johnm] #215454
09/25/08 11:17 pm
09/25/08 11:17 pm
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 89
England
Dawg Offline
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Posts: 89
England
Eh? The spring frame numbers are way back near the seat fixing lug - they all begin with RS.

When I last looked at a rigid Velocette frame, the number was on the lower portion of the headstock lug


1958 Velocette Venom
1960 Norton Dominator 99
1964 Velocette Venom Clubman Mk1
Re: MOV frame number location [Re: Ray in Sunny CA] #215469
09/26/08 2:29 am
09/26/08 2:29 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
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GROG Offline OP
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GROG  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
I had another good look with a STRONG light, and my glasses....nothing. Without removing paint I can't peer any harder.
Thanks guys, not sure what to do next.....my plan to date the machine accurately is falling apart....I'm not sure the old guy who said he has my drive side case will find it, its been 4 weeks since I last asked hiom, and he'll drop off the perch before long, knowing my luck....ha!
Cheers,
Greg

Re: MOV frame number location [Re: GROG] #215544
09/26/08 4:14 pm
09/26/08 4:14 pm
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 89
England
Dawg Offline
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Posts: 89
England
Sounds like paint has filled it in - gotta start scraping then!

When I rebuilt my Dominator, I had it professionally painted - the serial number stampings were not embedded very deeply - it came back with no sign of any frame numbers - I had to take the paint off in the immediate area to find them. I very carefully worked the numbers and letters deeper into the frame - then sprayed a thin coat of paint over them.


1958 Velocette Venom
1960 Norton Dominator 99
1964 Velocette Venom Clubman Mk1
Re: MOV frame number location [Re: Ray in Sunny CA] #215933
09/29/08 1:53 am
09/29/08 1:53 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
G
GROG Offline OP
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GROG  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
Ray in Sunny CA,
Yep, there it was...clear and bold and easy to read "10711"
...on the rhs side of the upper of the two front downtube engine mounting lugs where you said it wouild be, thanks mate.

Now, back to the other part of my original post....

Is it possible to date that the bike from that? Does anyone know if this is possible? Did Velo have a system and record numbers? Did the frame number tie up or match the engine numbers on these machines?

I am still chasing the original drive side case for my motor, I will phone the old guy and see if he has found it yet. He replaced it with a stronger locally cast item back in the early 50s and thinks he still has it in his workshop....somewhere.

Anyone?

Thanks again to all who ahve helped so far,
Greg in Sunny SA

Re: MOV frame number location [Re: GROG] #216249
09/30/08 3:48 pm
09/30/08 3:48 pm
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 89
England
Dawg Offline
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Dawg  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 89
England
According to Velocette expert Ivan Rhodes who has all the works documentation, MOV frame number 10711 was issued in late 1939 - the Engine number would have been around the 4000 region - throughout their history, Velocettes never had matching frame + engine numbers.


1958 Velocette Venom
1960 Norton Dominator 99
1964 Velocette Venom Clubman Mk1
Re: MOV frame number location [Re: Dawg] #217120
10/05/08 12:58 pm
10/05/08 12:58 pm
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
G
GROG Offline OP
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GROG  Offline OP
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G
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 112
Adelaide South Australia
Steve,
Thank you very much, you just made my Sunday even better, if that was possible!!!

I checked the mail just now as I await the second World Superbike Race to come live on the telly.
After watching Troy Bayliss and Andrew Pitt clinch their world titles earlier in the evening I am well pleased and can hardly wait to see what Troy will unleash in this second race coming!

So it was great to hear that we have tied down my great old bike, the frame at least, to a year is great news.
I have just about finished rebuilding it ready for a race track celebration re-enactment carnival this coming weekend.

Thanks mate.



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