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T140 Valve Timing Question #214000
09/16/08 6:36 pm
09/16/08 6:36 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 225
Los Angeles, CA
M
Mike Cornwall Offline OP
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Mike Cornwall  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 225
Los Angeles, CA
During disassembly of my T140, I noticed the cam pinions aren't lined up by the book (see photo.) The exhaust cam is one tooth off the dots, not sure if it's retarded or advanced but it got me thinking. What would be the effect of this? I've heard that advancing the exhaust valve timing gives more low end but I haven't gotten that far into rebuild voodoo.

Is this a good idea? Terrible idea? Worth playing with? I'll eat up any insights, thanks!
PS pay no attention to that flared out nut on the crank, it came that way!!


1972 Tiger 650
1978 Bonneville 750
1968 Victor 441
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Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Mike Cornwall] #214005
09/16/08 6:58 pm
09/16/08 6:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Blapper  Offline
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Kent UK
Hi Mike.

That is because the Triumph timing pinions use the hunting tooth principle and only line up about evry 96 turns of the engine. It doesn't mean your valve timing is out, but if you do lose your timing, you will time it using the original marks and your TDC tool.

HTH

Blapper redwine

Edit: Hang on, just put me glasses on and seen that it is your exhaust ONLY that is out (retarded I think ) so I may well be wrong. It has been known.......

Last edited by Blapper; 09/16/08 7:04 pm. Reason: blindness
Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Blapper] #214025
09/16/08 8:46 pm
09/16/08 8:46 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
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T. Sharp Offline
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T. Sharp  Offline
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Mike, if you want to believe your timing marks without testing them, it appears that you are one tooth off on all gears from the photo. If you moved the intermediate gear clockwise one tooth, you'll line up the crank, exhaust, and intake marks.
This is based on what I can see in your picture.

Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Mike Cornwall] #214035
09/16/08 10:10 pm
09/16/08 10:10 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,479
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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L.A.B.  Online Content
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Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By: Mike Cornwall
The exhaust cam is one tooth off the dots,


The marks only coincide once every 94 (not 96) crank revolutions, so the crank needs turning again to line them all up, or remove the intermediate pinion and reposition all the pinions?
As it's not just the exhaust marks that are one tooth out, the inlet is also one tooth out, it's the dash and not the dot on the T140 intermediate pinion that lines up with the B dot on the inlet pinion.





Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: L.A.B.] #214096
09/17/08 6:36 am
09/17/08 6:36 am
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Blapper  Offline
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So Lab,

Quote:
it's the dash and not the dot on the T140 intermediate pinion that lines up with the B dot on the inlet pinion.


A$$uming std T140 cams in engine.

Quote:
or remove the intermediate pinion and reposition all the pinions?


Stand by for a 'ping' and loss of registration!

Quote:
every 94 (not 96)


'about 96' isn't 94 eh? Oh, sorry 'bout that....

Blapper redwine

Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Blapper] #214098
09/17/08 8:02 am
09/17/08 8:02 am
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 225
Los Angeles, CA
M
Mike Cornwall Offline OP
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Mike Cornwall  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 225
Los Angeles, CA
Thanks guys, makes some sense now. I was going by the manual, you'd think they would take a minute to explain this kind of thing. Unless you'd seen the manual in which case you wouldn't expect much. Sigh.

So now that the matter is more or less settled, do you have opinions about messing with valve timing? I've heard a lot about it in the world of cars, no shortage of opinions over there so has it been tried?


1972 Tiger 650
1978 Bonneville 750
1968 Victor 441
Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: T. Sharp] #214103
09/17/08 9:37 am
09/17/08 9:37 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: T. Sharp
Mike, if you want to believe your timing marks without testing them, it appears that you are one tooth off on all gears from the photo. If you moved the intermediate gear clockwise one tooth, you'll line up the crank, exhaust, and intake marks.
This is based on what I can see in your picture.


Mike, Tom posted excellent information on just this subject recently [pre server change], the T140 rips with 9:1 pistons and Tom's cam timing.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Tiger] #214150
09/17/08 2:53 pm
09/17/08 2:53 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
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John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
Some would say it is "common sense" but is not clearly stated in the literature: you must use the camshaft key that is adjacent to the Alpha character you will be using.

If you are using the "B" timing marks for the inlet cam you must use the keyway adjacent to that character to align the camshaft.

As the timing mark is not "clearly" visable in the picture any remarks would subject to removing the nut and verifying the middle pinion marks with the crank shaft pinion's mark.

John


Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: Blapper] #214219
09/17/08 8:17 pm
09/17/08 8:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,479
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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L.A.B.  Online Content
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Posts: 3,479
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By: Blapper
Stand by for a 'ping' and loss of registration!


You're right, I had (rightly or wrongly?) assumed that anyone attempting to check/reset their valve timing would have the common sense to know the valve gear shouldn't be under load when removing the intermediate pinion.



Originally Posted By: Blapper
'about 96' isn't 94 eh? Oh, sorry 'bout that....


Yes, you're right, I could have written it better maybe, as my intention was to convey that it is 94, and not (about) 96.

Re: T140 Valve Timing Question [Re: L.A.B.] #214246
09/17/08 10:01 pm
09/17/08 10:01 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
T
T. Sharp Offline
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T. Sharp  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
John, if you look closely, I think you can see the two marks for crank alignment on the intermediate gear and the dot on the crank gear.
Even though they don't line up, I believe that the cam timing would be as the factory intended since all three gears line up one tooth off.
It would just make it confusing for anyone trying to ever get them to line up.


Moderated by  John Healy 


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