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Ceriani fork fluid #204898
01/16/07 5:03 pm
01/16/07 5:03 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline OP
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kboyd  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
I put a set of 35mm Ceriani roadrace forks on my flattracker that came in the parts pile. Can anyone tell me what type of fluid they were designed to use?

I don't have any experience or info on these old forks...

Thanks for any help,
Kyle


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
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Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204899
01/16/07 5:31 pm
01/16/07 5:31 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,708
Virginia, USA
SBoyd Offline
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SBoyd  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,708
Virginia, USA
Harley-Davidson Screaming Eagle racing fork oil, Extra-Heavy
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_p...;bmLocale=en_US


Stop the insanity.
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204900
01/16/07 5:35 pm
01/16/07 5:35 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,694
georgia
T
trumpetloon Offline
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trumpetloon  Offline
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T

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,694
georgia
15 weight Bel-Ray or other... fill to 6 inches from top with springs out, fully collapsed. Tune from there!


1974 TR5T
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204901
01/16/07 6:46 pm
01/16/07 6:46 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,107
Westminster, MD, USA
J
J. Charles Smith Offline
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J. Charles Smith  Offline
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J

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,107
Westminster, MD, USA
You will want to bookmark this site. http://www.motomacchi.com/historical/assyinst.html

beerchug

Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204902
01/16/07 8:00 pm
01/16/07 8:00 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,708
Virginia, USA
SBoyd Offline
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SBoyd  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,708
Virginia, USA
hey kboyd
Do your forks have the adjustable damping feature mentioned in that link?
I had two sets in the old days and one set more recently in AHRMA. I can't remember seeing that, but my memory is fading.
If you don't have adjustable, the fork oil weight is your adjustment, and i think 5 weight might be too light for dirt track (in the forks I had) ..

>>sb


Stop the insanity.
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204903
01/16/07 8:13 pm
01/16/07 8:13 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
dave - NV Offline

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dave - NV  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
Hi Kyle ... It's good to hear you've found some Cerianis for the tracker.
FWIW, we initially tried 20 wt fork oil in the non adjustable dampening RR
Cerrianis on our GS Sonic Weld tracker, but it was too heavy.
We now have 10 wt which works much better but would like to try 7.5 wt next season.
I vaguely remember putting in 200 cc/leg...

And speaking of Cerianis ... A good friend and fellow GSr in No CA
is building up a much modified Goldie cafe. He has a set of Cerriani MX forks
he would to trade for or buy a set of the shorter RR forks. Has anyone modified
the MX forks with shorter tubes/stantions? It would seem doable ...

And speaking of forks ... The '99-'02 Yamaha R6 forks have become
the 'standard' on many of the modern dirt trackers. Son Joel
has them on his (sponsors) latest/greatest C&J Rotax tracker.
We are also using them on the short tracker I'm building up now,
with WCR adjustable cnc made alu triple clamps. Nice.
Jim Wood the tracker tuner/builder in SoCA modifies these forks
with lighter springs and change the dampener valving.
On 'n on we go ... sheeze.


Dave - NV
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204904
01/16/07 9:23 pm
01/16/07 9:23 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline OP
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kboyd  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
Thanks for the replies. These forks came with the pile of parts I bought. Everything was there except the stem, which I bought and had machined to fit as best it could. The lower tapered roller bearing could fit better into the race, but I didn't want to machine the stem too thin on the bottom bearing mount. Should be ok....

Thanks for the link to the instructions J. Charles. Mine don't have the adjuster in them like the instructions mentioned. I was told that they were Ceriani RR forks and thats about all I know about them. They did mention some forks for flattrack in the text there, and said 200cc. I'll take all the advice and shake it down. Sounds like between 5 and 15 is the range to tinker with for proper handling.... and hydraulic fluid, not motor oil.

Thanks Sboyd, Trumpetloon, and Dave! beerchug

Dave, Is your friend looking for 30" forks?


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204905
01/16/07 10:29 pm
01/16/07 10:29 pm
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,694
georgia
T
trumpetloon Offline
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trumpetloon  Offline
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T

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,694
georgia
Kyle... these forks are actually very tunable! Varying the weight and volume of oil is just the start. You can also play with spring weight and preload, modify the damper rods by enlarging/welding/relocating the oil holes, even add air fittings to the caps and tune "by compressor". As you ride the thing you will get a feel for the front end bite, and if you don't beat up on the competition too badly, perhaps some of your competitors may share their set ups with you. Or at least something similar... wink . Listen to everyone and ask questions, then try some of the suggestions one at a time; if lap times drop the mod is good!


1974 TR5T
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204906
01/16/07 11:14 pm
01/16/07 11:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
dave - NV Offline

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dave - NV  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,893
Elko, Nevada USA
Kyle ... Yeah my friend is looking for 30" RR forks for his road Goldie. Thanks.

An age old tuning aid on fork compression dampening and spring rate
is to put a tie wrap on the tube and let the slider scraper push it
up on the tube indicating 'full travel' after the bike has been ridden a bit.
But you knew that ...
On a relatively smooth track you should be using 2/3 to 3/4 of the max travel per the 'experts'.

Front end 'tuning' is ever so important to maintain front end traction on corner entry,
allowing you to stay on the gas as long as possible aproaching the apex.
Don't forget to be constantly practicing tucking the front end approaching the apex. 'Pronate' ala Carol Resweber. yeah.
But you knew that ...

Have you found some triple clamps wide enough to fit a DT tire?

Now if we could just figure a way hide some suspension in the rear of these rigid trackers!


Dave - NV
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204907
01/17/07 1:45 pm
01/17/07 1:45 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline OP
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kboyd  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
Thanks again guys...

I really appreciate the tuning advice! I'm brand new to competition and especially flattrack and need all the advice I can get. The local group (NFTRA) is a great bunch, and the vintage racers are willing to help and share their knowledge for the most part. Probably just because I'm new and not a threat when it comes to the checkered flag. There's an old timer on a 360 Bultaco that hasn't been beat in many years, and I'm sure he could beat me on a moped anyway.

Dave, this may make me sound stupid... but could you explain "tucking the front end" a little bit? I've watched the racers and you see a wide variety of techniques. Some guys are kind of liesurely about it, while others really work the bike hard. Getting way up on the tank when coming into the corners and sliding way back on the seat and lowering their heads coming out... Feel free to give me any advice that might help when I get out on the track soon. (In return for eternal secrets I'll holler at you first if I decide to let go of this front end I'm using now)

Still a couple things to sort out with pipe and carb, but when this arctic blast finally moves out I'll be looking for a smooth and flat spot to try this bike out!

Oh yeah, I decided to use a Dunlop K180 on the front. Fits real nice, but not much clearance still...

Thanks again,
Kyle


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204908
01/18/07 5:44 pm
01/18/07 5:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
doghouse demon Offline
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Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
Kyle, I would be happy to spend some time with you
and explain the technique at one of the AHRMA
nationals. I'll be at both of the FL bike week
rounds but probably not at Savannah.

I went to supercamp in October and I can show you
that and the old-school technique -- at least for
braked and sprung machines.

I'm not sure how much good I'd do trying to type
everything out over the interweb.

Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204909
01/18/07 6:43 pm
01/18/07 6:43 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline OP
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kboyd  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
Thanks for the offer. I looked into Supercamp in CO but the cost was a bit too much for a family guy, at least right now. I would sure appreciate some advice though. Sure would like to get to some AHRMA events this year, but most of them are a long way from KS. I saw the early schedule the other day and the closest national would probably be Ashland during VMD. Have to keep checking the schedule and see what they add. Maybe I can make a race or two this year and catch up with you.

There was an outfit doing some inexpensive classes (geared towards youngsters) in North Texas last year, so I may see if they are doing any flattrack instruction this year. Other than that I'll try to find a flat spot around here somewhere and just turn left...

How did you like the Supercamp?

Thanks,
Kyle


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204910
01/18/07 10:00 pm
01/18/07 10:00 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
doghouse demon Offline
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doghouse demon  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
Supercamp was great. I would recommend it to anyone
but my enemies. wink Matter of fact, I'm considering
making the Springfield dates a yearly thing.

Bear in mind that the new-school technique is not
the way to go on all tracks according to one of my
pals that races GNC. Ashland is a good example of a
place where the old school technique probably
works better.

And even the people at SC will tell you theirs is
not the only technique, just one that seems to work.

The best bit of advice I can give you is to get
your equipment in good order before expecting too
much in the way of results. If I were you I'd send
my stuff off to Durelle and have him do the setup.
I would also recommend making sure your brakes are
in tip-top shape. These are things I didn't do last
year and I paid for them. I also skipped upgrading
the electronics in my main vintage bike and was
rewarded with a blown mag and coil at Ashland --
right at the beginning of the main.

Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204911
01/19/07 5:25 pm
01/19/07 5:25 pm
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
kboyd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
kboyd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,115
Kansas
Thanks for the advice. I did call Davey a while back to ask about suspension. I'll double check suspension setup too. The front end needs new seals and a good cleaning, the swingarm needs new bearings. Otherwise things seem pretty good. I made my own brake setup with an old H/A 1.5" caliper that I rebuilt and use with a fj750 disc that bolted right up to the old Yam front wheel I have on the rear. A little safety wire on the rotor bolts and the rear end should be good. I'm going to re-check it all like you mentioned though, now that I have it all together I can fine tune things. Jury is still out on the old Arnaco adjustable dampening shocks...

As far as technique goes, I do see a big difference on shorttracks. The new DTX bikes handle pretty well when they are layed out damn near flat! Many times I thought a guy was going to lowside only to watch him pull right out of it. I guess a factor of weight and modern suspension? I like this picture of the kid Eto Kinji from Japan (I think), looks like he's in bad shape, but he never went down and pulled right out of it:



Sounds like Supercamp is the real deal, at least thats what I've heard from everyone thats gone to it. Maybe someday.. for now I'm going to try to find a place to practice a bit and a local guy said he'd help me out.

Thanks,
Kyle


Kyle#44x

1969 T100R Daytona
1979 Powroll Honda XR250 "Dallas Baker" flattracker
1975 XL350 project bike
Re: Ceriani fork fluid #204912
01/21/07 7:24 pm
01/21/07 7:24 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
doghouse demon Offline
BritBike Forum
doghouse demon  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Indianapolis, IN
Probably more bike control and skill than susp
bits when the bike's on the innermost tread and
nearly digging a trench w/ the cases. smile

I shelved all the H-A stuff in lieu of Brembo and
Nissin bits. Not necessarily b/c the H-A stuff is
junk but more along the lines of wanting to get
more easily available spares and bits.

Are you making the trip to Du Quoin on the first
weekend of Feb?


Moderated by  Allan Gill 


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