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8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198364
06/11/07 4:48 pm
06/11/07 4:48 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 76
Los Angeles, California
Boots Offline OP
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Los Angeles, California
Scoping around eBay I found these:



CMA 8 Leading Shoe front brakes.

Anyone know where to get these or how much they are?


Lime-Rider Extraordinaire
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198365
06/11/07 8:44 pm
06/11/07 8:44 pm
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
santa cruz ca
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norcallightning Offline
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CMA went out in the 60's,your looking at $1000 + and a hell of a search,dresda distributed them
back in the day,or create a time machine. the 10Ls was as far as i know the largest to date


64/58 NORBSA
RE 500 bullet
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198366
06/14/07 5:06 am
06/14/07 5:06 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 76
Los Angeles, California
Boots Offline OP
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Los Angeles, California
eek 10LS?!?!?

I thought 8 was plenty.

Just out of curiosity who made the 10LS? I'd love to see a picture.

As for the cost. Well, 1000 doesn't seem so expensive with those $3800 Fontana brakes on the market.


Lime-Rider Extraordinaire
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198367
06/14/07 10:18 am
06/14/07 10:18 am
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 150
middlesex county, New Jersey
Hank Offline
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middlesex county, New Jersey
Check out the brake on this Goldie,

Hank

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198368
06/14/07 3:37 pm
06/14/07 3:37 pm
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
santa cruz ca
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norcallightning Offline
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santa cruz ca
at this point you can get a excelent period looking drum brake that will outperform the 8ls
for about a grand so theres other options

that goldie brake is a munch there are
reproductions available at 4500 usd from AUS

i have a pic somewere of a 10ls if i find it i'll post it,they look very similar to the CMA brake's and i wouldnt be suprised if they are a CMA item you can contact dresda and find out more from dave degans as he was the distributor

the oldani,ceriani,menani and fontana brakes have allways sold for a fortune but the performance is legendary if i could afford one
i sure would buy one


64/58 NORBSA
RE 500 bullet
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198369
06/15/07 11:17 pm
06/15/07 11:17 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,756
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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Hank- that looks like a trim/cover plate to me, hasn't much to do with the actual brake, I don't believe.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198370
06/16/07 2:47 am
06/16/07 2:47 am
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,694
georgia
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georgia
GrandPaul... Google "Munch Mammut"!


1974 TR5T
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198371
06/16/07 2:53 am
06/16/07 2:53 am
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
santa cruz ca
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norcallightning Offline
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santa cruz ca
Quote:
Hank- that looks like a trim/cover plate to me, hasn't much to do with the actual brake, I don't believe.
its actually the hub,with sevral heat shrunk cooling disc's in the center and the flanges milled,they really are massive stoppers



64/58 NORBSA
RE 500 bullet
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198372
06/16/07 2:55 am
06/16/07 2:55 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,756
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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I saw both the Munch and the Dresda Triton with the 8 shoe brakes the last two visits to the Barber museum.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198373
06/16/07 3:02 am
06/16/07 3:02 am
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
santa cruz ca
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norcallightning Offline
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Posts: 62
santa cruz ca


64/58 NORBSA
RE 500 bullet
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198374
06/16/07 8:42 am
06/16/07 8:42 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 76
Los Angeles, California
Boots Offline OP
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Los Angeles, California
Oh yeah, I've heard of those. Some crazy german put a car engine in a moto frame right?

Nice brakes but their definitely not 10LS. They are just really large, really beautiful 2LSs.


Lime-Rider Extraordinaire
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198375
08/03/07 10:32 pm
08/03/07 10:32 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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I only hope that torque arm on that BSA is in steel otherwise one day someone is going to learn the hard way all about torque arm design.

I wonder how many of you have ever lifted these 'wonder' brakes? Not many I bet. Some of us were working the 12 hour plus day bike shows in London whan they came out. If ever you want to go over a hump back bridge such as Ballaugh and have the front wheel stick to the road with the lighter rear one coming over the top fit one.....And that occured with our lighter pretend Manx front brake(BSA conical with cooling fin shrunk on and A65 internals grafted into alloy Manx brake plate. Worked fairly well round the Island but weighed far toooooo much.) Ye gods those heavy lumps must absorb lots of HP just to accelerate them and the extra braking is needed to slow them down!! Posers brakes. Cannot remember ever seing any on successful Classic race bikes.... Even those Grimica 220mm 4ls weigh a ton or two....Thats why my new one that cost me 45 is still in the loft decades later.A friend imported them. Bloody great lump. The 200mm Grimica 4ls is the one I learnt all about torque arm design with coming down into Ramsey one day LUCKILY on the slower Laxey road and not over the Mountain......Interesting hearing the brake plate flying around smashing itself to bits....... Decades later its now having a couple of Seeley type single leading / trailing brake plates put in it with Honda shoes as Grimica denied they ever made such a brake when a dealer friend visited them on a business trip and tried to get me a new brake plate.Mind you it was identical to the 220mm one in all ways apart from size..... It originally came off a racing Honda in the 70s when the gent decided discs were the way to go if stopping were to be part of the his racing.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198376
08/04/07 5:06 pm
08/04/07 5:06 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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Oh and what about the greatly increases weight effecting handling?

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198377
08/04/07 6:25 pm
08/04/07 6:25 pm
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 42
Connecticut
YankeeJerry Offline
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Connecticut
norcallightning


"at this point you can get a excelent period looking drum brake that will outperform the 8ls
for about a grand so theres other options"

Where is a source for these brakes?

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198378
08/05/07 8:53 pm
08/05/07 8:53 pm
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 25
queensland australia
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ENGEL Offline
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Posts: 25
queensland australia
Quote:
Originally posted by norcallightning:
old mate was a nutter, but the good type. the little NSU prinz was a veritable rocket in standard, let alone the tt and tt/s. now rip off two wheels, and make all your own cycle parts and hey presto, instant cult scary mobile. are they in business again with a 2 litre from something?

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198379
08/06/07 11:00 pm
08/06/07 11:00 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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Whether other brakes will out perform others is a debatable subject. Hell a decent 8 inch twin leader will lock up the front wheel IF it has decent linings in it which were skimmed to match the skimmed drum(if reqd) and the lever gear is set up correctly.Trouble is that after several quick in succession applications you will still be hanging on the lever with it back to the bar and nearly accelerating thanks to fade. Well I was anyway.
Personally I found with drum brakes over the years that the better the braking power they gave the later I would leave the braking so I still ended up in trouble brake wise in the same spots!A friend with a fairly olde Honda vfr or whatever it is tells me I would have a heart attack if I applied his front brake in anger and that compared to more modern Hondas its not that good!!! I keep looking at his nice light discs and think how nice they would look in a set of Norton forks but then I guess I would have to shove in anti dive.......
Adverts for Yamaha TZ look alike drum brakes...Grimica.. Fontana ..etc appear in Classic Bike or Classic Racer once in a while. Personally as I remember it people junked such brakes and put in discs.... Wonder how many olde Suzuki 4ls ones from kettles there are laying around in the USA??? Bet they weigh a ton ....but would be cheap . Must ask USA friend where the one he has been going to send over for 10 years has got to!! I feel an e mail coming on....Must remember to ask why they lose so many rifles etc in Iraq. Must be a scheme to keep the defence industry making lots of money at tax payers expense....... That should set him off!!!!

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198380
08/08/07 3:26 pm
08/08/07 3:26 pm
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Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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Friend in the USA has just weighed an olde Suzuki 4 LS lump without spokes and rim..30 lbs..... STRUTH no wonder they needed to produce so much power to accelerate it!! Along with the extra braking power required to stop it!! Must go weigh that 220mm 4LS Grimica lump in the loft....and then the 9 inch 4 LS mag lump sitting in the garage looking pretty... just for a laugh.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198381
08/08/07 4:13 pm
08/08/07 4:13 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Alex  Offline

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Posts: 7,812
Seattle
Quote:
Originally posted by beltdriveman:
Friend in the USA has just weighed an olde Suzuki 4 LS lump without spokes and rim..30 lbs.....
Actually doesn't seem that bad. I weighed some BSA wheels at one point (with tire and steel rim):
-TRI/BSA TLS: 39 lbs.
-TRI/BSA Conical: 30 lbs.
-BSA 5" full width: 38 lbs.
All pretty substantial lumps, particularly the one that goes on a 17hp ceefer!


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198382
08/08/07 11:09 pm
08/08/07 11:09 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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Weighed the 220mm 4LS Italian Fontana or whatever it is with its mag brake plates. Including alloy rim and spokes but not a shaft ...22 lb.
Wonder how much could be saved using a mag hub with a set of old VFR Honda discs and carriers grafted on with the std Honda brake cylinders grafted on to a couple of Norton disc fork bottoms?? At least one would end up with a non fade real brake!!
Have sugggested to USA friend he advertises the Suzuki lump on E bay with a starting bid of $400........Doubt he will get round to doing so.
Cannot wait (ha ha)to find enthusiasm to go into loft to drag out that new(must be vintage by now its been there so long) vastly overweight 220mm 4LS Grimica lump and weigh it.
Mind you 30 lbs isnt much more than twice the weight of the overweight gearbox breaking flywheel Norton called the clutch on the last 820 Commandos!!(Or a late BSA/Triumph twin ones!!)
Tee Hee.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198383
08/08/07 11:38 pm
08/08/07 11:38 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 352
British Columbia
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Brian M
1971 T100R
1974 T150V
1980 GS1000
2011 Tiger 800
1965 Norton Atlas
Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198384
08/11/07 11:04 pm
08/11/07 11:04 pm
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beltdriveman Offline
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Gosh 2 hours to go and $350 for a Suzuki 30 lb lump.(If friend in the USA weighed his correctly that is) At that price a snip...at under $13 a lb.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198385
08/21/07 10:14 pm
08/21/07 10:14 pm
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Posts: 706
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beltdriveman Offline
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Weighed the big Grimica 4LS lump. Hub bearings and complete brake plates 18LB.
The 200mm Grimica looks nice now with its new Seeley brake plates even is it is now a 2 leading 2 trailing shoe brake.....The gent who made them sent a photo or two just to prove it had been finished!!Must weigh it when I get it back..... just for the hell of it.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198386
08/23/07 9:48 pm
08/23/07 9:48 pm
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beltdriveman Offline
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A correction. The Fontana 4ls brake is I now understand having asked a a gent who makes such things for Manx etc in mag alloy, a Ceriani 230mm 4ls brake. For a 350 it had 19mm wide shoes. and the 500 version had 25mm wide shoes.he thinks the hub and mag brake plates /shoes were common to both.
One lives and learns.

Re: 8LS brakes? what's next 16LS? #198387
09/29/07 9:28 am
09/29/07 9:28 am
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beltdriveman Offline
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The 200mm twin sided Grimica hub with spokes and 19 inch alloy rim fitted with the new Seeley look alike brake plates employing early honda single leading trailing front brake shoes along with a std Norton wheel spindle weighs in at approx 19 lb.



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