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#195755 - 01/23/05 12:35 am A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
OK , I was looking for a belt drive a couple years ago for the bike I am currently riding ,atthat time I checked with uite a few of the vendors that I usually dea with and noone had them in stock . Now I am thinking about picking one up for a current project and would like to hear from anyone who is using a belt driv on an A-65 and hear about what is available these days , and who has what in stock .

Ideally , I would like to come up with a wet/dry setup with an upgraded clutch . burt I have heard that the style that uses your existing hub is more common for BSA????

Any help ??-BONZO

#195756 - 01/23/05 12:59 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
Redman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Redman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
San Francisco
Bonz.... I just finished investigating that exact question. Yes, there are four different drives available. Some dry, some wet. I forgot which sites have them but they're the usual ones. There's the QPD, which is dry and uses a Norton type clutch. There's the Newby drive, and two others. Hit MAP, Brit Only, British Spares,SRM etc. You just have to scan their product indexes.
I wanted to go with the dry and have always LOVED how well the Norton clutches work so I lucked out. I found a QPD on eBay that was in perfect cond but the guy had lost the pressure plate and retaing ring. I found the manufacturer ( a great old guy!) and arranged to buy the missing parts for 70bux. The auction I won at 250US...all in all I get my drive for half of new.
http://www.quietpowerdrive.com/prod01.htm
That's the QPD link.
Good luck!
K


Life is short but very wide.
#195757 - 01/23/05 8:41 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Jeff Covert Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jeff Covert  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Benton, AR USA
I tried a QPD Drive in my Dirttrack motors and it wouldn't hold up. We went to the Duquoin Mile 2 years ago and broke $600.00 worth of belts in very short order. I wound up swapping the belt for a stock setup at the track that day in order to finish a main event. We wound up finishing 2nd to a Harley Davidson 1200cc Supertracker in the Modern open unlimited class. Not bad for a pile of 35 year old Iron!
Anyway the QPD would be fine for the street, just don't try to overpower it. I also have a Bob Newby Racing belt drive, It is a work of art. We only ran it 3 races last year but it held up perfectly. I'm gonna start of 2005 with a Hi-Vo Chain drive developed by Mike Akatiff back in 1970. He only made 150 of them though and they are rare.


Jeff Covert

#195758 - 01/24/05 9:42 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Jeff Covert Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jeff Covert  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Benton, AR USA
Update on the QPD. Bob E-mailed me yesterday and said he had a new setup he was sending me. Hopefully it will take the thrashing that we give it.


Jeff Covert

#195759 - 01/24/05 10:32 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
Thanks for the input on this fellas.

jeff , sorry to hear aboutthe troubles with the QPD unit , and good to see they are revising them . was your problem with pulley alignment or a weak belt or something more sinister ?

BTW , got any of those still laying around ??

I havent seen the QPD pieces yet , but I have seen the newby,very nice and I havent heard a complaint yet , and I hear good things about a haywood(or Hayward?) but havent seen anyone using one .

FWIW-BONZO

#195760 - 01/25/05 12:47 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Jeff Covert Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jeff Covert  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Benton, AR USA
I don't want to steer you away from QPD. I just wanted to let you know that they wouldn't stand up to 125 mph on a Mile Dirttrack. The problem was that it literally pulled the belts apart and they would only last 2 to 3 laps. At $100.00 / belt it didn't take long for me to get enough of that. I think the QPD would last you a lifetime on a Street Motor.
Sorry I sent the one I had back to Bob and he is replacing it. I am going to put it on my 74mm x 79mm engine. The bob Newby will go on the 84mm x 76mm motor and the Hi-Vo will go on the 90mm x 79mm setup.


Jeff Covert

#195761 - 02/16/05 9:31 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10
Peter Jonsson. Sweden Offline
BritBike Forum
Peter Jonsson. Sweden  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10
Sweden
I am surprised noone has mentioned Tony Hayward belts.
I have ridden with his belt/racing clutch kit for two years now, and I have to say it works beuatifully.
The belts he uses can run wet witout dissolving.
the clutch drum is lightweight alloy.
I have a tuned A65 (SRM 750) That delivers true 50Bhp on the rear wheel, with 66Nm Torque.
I went all over the Baltic states distance touring this summer. I also took it to the strip. (13.36s/157km/h)
I have truly abused that clutch, but it has never once let me down. I love it.

SRM sells adaptors, so you can use a commando cluch with the Hayward belt on your A65.
SRM knows how to reach Tony Hayward, and can probably deliver his stuff to you. Mr Hayward himself didnt even own a computer when I visited him in Chester back in 2001.


Peter Jonsson
Sweden
BSA Lightning -68 (SRM 750)
Triumph Speed Triple -01
#195762 - 02/17/05 12:32 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Britbodger R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Britbodger R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,913
Houston Texas
Hate to rain on anyone's parade.. frown However, feel I have to report that I have experienced a catastrophic failure with a Hayward belt on my BSA Rocket Three after about 4 years of use. Not sure what mileage I had covered over this time but I would estimate about 4000-6000 miles.

Unfortunately the belt didn't fail completely wrapping itself around the engine and gearbox shafts. As a result the gearbox shaft is bent and steel fibers have gotten into the drive side main bearing. Needless to say this means a major strip-down and replacemnet of the gearbox mainshaft frown

In defense of Tony Hayward I'm not sure whether it was his belt to blame. However, I have heard that he has had to withdraw his claim that his belts outlast chains when they operate in oil. Also that the material of his belt has changed since I bought mine from him.

Anyway my advice based upon my experience is to replace the belt frequently if it runs in oil.

Just my 2c

#195763 - 02/17/05 4:27 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
Bodger , FWIW , I was on the phone all over the country recently trying to locate a reliable setup for an A-65 when I called one of the "real deal" guys that builds hot rod race engines and sells parts , in fact he sold me the SRM kit for one of my bikes . Luckily , noone I rang had anything in stock or knew where to find one for such an exotic machine as the highly sought after A-65 , and I got a minute or so to chat this fella up on the subject . I had credit card in hand ready to open a box on my doorstep and this guy (who's opinion weighs heavily with me and most who know him ) pretty much talked me out of the whole idea of a belt drive primary for a British streetbike, unless I was ready to run an open primary and/or tak drastic measures to keep it cool . It seems that heat is a major factor , and even in an oil bath heat will build up on a long trip and a belt filure is possible , he cited the early 80's attempt by H-D to run priand sec belts on a stock bike , I remembered that joke .I suppose , when it comes down to it , I am not ready to add a possible weakspot to a roadbike , at considerable expense, with only marginal gains in performance and rideability (I was "hoping" for quickerrevs and a smoother overall ride , without the reliability issues )

Your post pretty much confirms what I was told , and again , being told this by a guy that was losing a sale in the name of good business , really means a lot to a guy like me who really cant afford to find these things outthe hard way .

-BONZO

#195764 - 02/21/05 11:02 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 458
Washington Bob Offline
BritBike Forum member
Washington Bob  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 458
Washington State
Hey Bonzo,
Drop Keith Johnson at Johnson Cams an email and ask him. He built belt drives for BSA A-10 twins back in the 80's and they impressed the heck out of me back then. He should be able to offer a solution to your quest. He is the best machinist I have ever known in my many years of playing with Britbikes. Good luck in your search.
Washington Bob

#195765 - 06/04/05 6:53 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
jkardine Offline
BritBike Forum member
jkardine  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
West Midlands U.K
Hy, Tony Haywood is your man, his number and address is as follows, +441244830776,his address is: 28 Kelerston Road, Connah's Quay, Deeside, Clywd. Chester. I also have a list of belts and stuff if you want me to have a look for you, but it is the way to go they won't let you down.

Jkardine

#195766 - 06/08/05 2:56 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,719
441/R3cafeSteve Offline
BritBike Forum member
441/R3cafeSteve  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,719
BC Canada
Hey Bonzo, if your tree drops anymore money I could use a bit...not.LOL! Real racers run chains don't they? I see more belt material littering the highway than chain fragments over a year so that must attest to their structure. LOL! why not put on a quad link? primary chain and get all that power out!
Steve
-RK has a new rear o-ring chain that is the same width as the 520 now so I'm sure there is one for 530 that could cush your ride. I found that the o-ring smoothed things considerably. No more scraping of inside of primary for clearance.


The 441, most versatile BSA of the 60's
#195767 - 06/11/05 8:29 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
Steve , I was actually looking for a primary belt drive, but after some conversation with someone whose work I know and trust, who also sells these things , I am of the opinion that even though it might free up some power , and smooth the vibes a bit , for the riding I plan to do , it wont be practical. Saved quite a few leaves from the money tree with one phone call .I do know a couple of people who use the belt drive on daily riders lately , I usually see them at rallies , I'm curious to hear how they fare with them.-BONZO

#195768 - 06/12/05 4:01 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7
Ed Wood Offline
BritBike Forum member
Ed Wood  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 7
Hey Steve, could you post the model number of that RK chain that is the same width as a 520, or post a url to point to it? Thanks.

#195769 - 05/23/06 12:09 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
beltdriveman Offline
BritBike Forum
beltdriveman  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
Dear Bonzo. You really should stop listening to exspurts. The major cause of heat found within the chaincase is from the CHAIN. Go read your Copy of Speed and How to Obtain It. On page 47 the book states..'It is not always realised what a hard working componant the primary chain is.It runs at very high linear speed and, though it comprises a series of plain bearings, it is given nothing like enough oil to either lubricate these bearings properly or to cool them. Under the best of conditions a chain is a most efficient form of transmission but even so it absorbs about 2% of the power input in internal friction. This lost power is coverted to heat. The wastage with an inadequately lubricated chain is considerably higher, so that several horse power may well be used simply in heating up the chain.'
Mr Jack Williams in his 1949/50 7R and E45 AJS design mote book actually states that a drip fed primary chain is probably no more than 90% efficient and if you ever BOTHER to read chain manufacturers bumnph you will see that even for chain speeds equating to only VERY low revs on your bike they recommend lubrication to be sump and pump with the oil being pumped to fall on the sideplates so that some might get forced between the side plates and thus enter the plain bearings to lubricate and keep them cool.
As for the MASS of a chain at the rediculous chain speeds we use go have a look at the 1970s SuoperCycle Harley dyno tests where they compared the std chain system to a belt one and note the comments about the chain being as stiff as a broom handle virtally self destructing in front of them as it was absobing lots of horse power!!!I believe the power lost in the chain at arevs equaeing to 90mph road speed was 5.5HP....thats FIVE POINT FIVE horse power. 1 Hp =746 watts so how many KiloWatt electric fires do you have heating up your chaincase??
Chains are VERY efficient devices when used CORRECTLY. I have a copy of a telegram from The National Physical Lab to Reynold telling of efficieny of between 98,4 and 98.7% over a 6 hour test run.....Modern belts with modern toothforms will beat that but not by much..BUT they will do it not at a transmission speed of 2000 ft per min which is about the MAX shown in my olde chain bumph BUT AT SPEEDS OF UP TO AND OVER 10,000 ft per min because they have LESS mass and no moving parts such as plain bearings.... If memory serves correctly a T140 at 7000rpm has a chain speed of around 5800 ft per min and a Commando of around 6200 ft per min with Manxs and G50s etc reaching up to 8000 ft per minute........
I would invite you to find two T140s, one with the std chain primary and another with a QPD diaphragm spring clutch system fitted...take both for a long hard blast and upon stopping shove your finger on the chain and belt...you will notice pain as your finger touches the chain probably along with the smell of burning flesh.........Pahaps that is the only way the average British motorbike owner will ever learn about chains and heat.......I did many decades ago...on a G50 after it had just done two laps of the TT at just over 95 mph.
Oh and should you bother to try to find any test data on high speed chain usage let me know if you ever find any...PLEASE.I have spoken to many retired and still employed in the chain industry people and none can remember any being done..... As a couple of Gents at Newcastle Uni. said to me a few years back shortly after they had done some research on high speed chain use for camshaft drives for a chain mamufacturer....'we were amazed at the lack of knowledge we found in the chain industry regarding high speed use'. BUT think about it..chain is an INDUSTRIAL item and a typical example of its correct usage would be that National Pyhsical Labs testing of 1934 or whenever......A 1 inch pitch chain running at less than 2000 ft per min carrying 25 HP with a STEADY load and with CORRECT sump and pump lubrication. NOT one running at 5000 plus ft per min in an oil bath with oil just touching the chain (assuming the rider has remembered to fill it correctly) with the chain probably incorrectly tensioned and aligned and NOT using correct SAE 10 ish oil...with the chain speed so high the chain causes cavitation in whatever oil it touches so none or VERY little gets onto the chain plus the rediculous mass of a triplex chain which has to be FORCED into going round the poor olde sprockets rather tan escaping through the chaincase as it reaally want to do..and sometimes does!!! Of course the mass being forced round the sprockets forces the plain bearings working surfaces together and a breakdown of whatever lubrication there might of been.
Best if one uses ones bikes as they were ORIGINALLY designed to be used...low revs and correctly maintained.......Did you read the bit in Bert Hopwoods book about how a new bike gave troubles they had never had during testing so they gave a few new ones to a few of the incompetents within the factory and hey presto these bikes also gave problems proving they was owner related.........

#195770 - 05/23/06 2:05 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
beltdriveman Offline
BritBike Forum
beltdriveman  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
One of the great things about chains and belts is how easy it is to slag them off when problems with them occur. This is due to the approx zero knowledge about them amoung motorcyclists. An example. In the early 80s a vintage racing (championship winning) friend and I decided to go so called Classic racing with an olde Atlas basket case he had bought. Having spent hours adjusting,lubricating and changing (primary) chains we decided to try the new fangled belts that one or two in the UK were using....We bought a sytem made in the Uk. In use it gave many problems ONE of which was thet the belts'nylon tooth facing would be in shreds after a couple of meetings. Mind you it was cheaper to replace than one chain and we would of got through two chains... I slagged off Uniroyal belt products to anyone who enquired....That winter I was keeping very busy doing sweet nothing but whilst looking at the lump I noticed the belt didnt seem to be fitting the pulleys correctly....IT WASNT....That British system maker had made his own toothing cutter to tooth the pulleys and had got it seriously wrong and it was this that was causing the belt problem. The pulleys were sent back and when returned and refitted THAT problem had gone away......A typical case of opening ones trap before engaging brain. Now a LOT older I tend to try to engage brain first. With the later fitted QPD alloy Commando type diaphragm spring clutch belt system the belt was only cchanged as a Xmas present to the primary system for performing so perfectly all year. Really all I am trying to say is DONT BELIEVE MOST Of THE TALES YOU HEAR....a corretly designed for the application and CORRECTLY fitted belt system will NOT give problems.
Regarding one point about the Commado diaphragm spring type clutch that none of you appear to realise.......Take a T140. Correctly set up the 3 springs apply a clamp load of approx 270 Lbf to the friction interfaces. As you initially start to free off the clutch you have to apply 270 lbf to the pressure plate and with the clutch lever back to the bar (and the springs damn close to being coil bound) you are applying approx 300 lbf to the pressure plate. Now a correctly set up early 750 Commando diaphragm spring applied approx 380 lbf to the friction interfaces but because it basically equates to a lever and applies this load to the pressure point which is approx 1 inch from the springs fixed outer edge and you apply the release load 2 inches away from the fixed outer edge you only have to apply approx 200lbf to the release ring to start to free off the clutch AND because the Commando diaphragm spring has a totally different load deflection curve to that of coil springs by the time the lever is back to the bar you are only applying approx 100lbf..........Guess why one road tester said that he found it incredulous that such a delightfully light and positive clutch could of been overlooked by British motorcycle manufacturers for so long.For anyone interested enough to want to learn about diaphragm springs go to HAUSSERMANN on Google or whatever and download the PDF 'The physics of diaphragm springs'.The EARLY 750 spring gave a load deflection curve shown as degressive negative progressive.(As do the different springs used during later Commando production but they gave incresind clamp and release loads...in fact the last 850 spring ended up giving an initial release load GREATER than the T140!!!!!!!)
As with last episle no spell or grammer etc checks done.

#195771 - 05/23/06 4:28 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
Redman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Redman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
San Francisco
Wow...Beltdriveman...although I am about to run a "QPD" beltdrive in MY A65 primary, as I am convinced of a belt's superior efficiency, you may have misread Bonzo's intention in his posts. He finally decided to stick with the stock components due to hearing of problems and headaches with various belt systems. He was originally looking to go with a belt. I am having difficulties getting my own QPD set up to function smoothly but am determined to get it all sorted out.
I am thankful for your post and all the information therein but I think you may have come down a bit hard on The Bonz without reason.
I hope I can get the QPD to work as it is supposed to......belt systems would get a much better "rap" if they were truly bolt on up grades.
Cheers.....
K


Life is short but very wide.
#195772 - 05/23/06 4:53 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,751
shel Online content
BritBike Forum member
shel  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,751
ohio
NOT TO MENTION IT'S A YEAR OLD POST laughing


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#195773 - 05/23/06 6:28 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 189
bsadb Offline
BritBike Forum member
bsadb  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 189
easley south carolina
You just don't see many race bikes with belt drives.
On a brit bike you can use the added crankcase room, venting it to the primary for lowering the crankcase pressure, but not so with a belt drive.


Always use the Golden Rule.
#195774 - 05/23/06 9:32 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 258
BSAPhill Offline
BritBike Forum member
BSAPhill  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 258
UK
Umm, i know alot of race bikes with belt drives, most of them Brit bikes, well in the UK you do.

#195775 - 05/23/06 11:00 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 122
dogsrocket Offline
BritBike Forum member
dogsrocket  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 122
australia
Hey Bonzo
I'm running a belt drive on my a65 that was built by a guy in ausralia based on a hayward belt drive. Not saying that a hayward drive would be the same but.......
If you feel like die grinding stator studs so front pulley fits in.
#File front pulley spline so it fits on to crank.
#Turn up spacer so front pulley does not bottom out on crank case.
#Turn up larger diameter front pulley belt guide as suppled one keeps chewing belt out
#Make sure you space stator out with washers so it does not hit on pulley.
#Machine clutch basket centre out as does not fit over needle rollers
#Replace needle rollers with sealed bearing so we can now run dry clutch.
#Throw supplied clutch steels in to rubbish as they do not fit over clutch hub and were so roughly machined i would only use them as a frisbee.
#Machine down exsisting steels to fit basket
#Wait 3 weeks for the kit to arrive from next state.
#Pay $860au for this abortion
#Complain to the guy who made the belt drive about all the modifications that have to be done says he will supply me with another belt as compensation. Belt never arrives.
#Basically in all the only thing not modified for this to work was the belt
#So far after roughly 500kms of riding we have had no further dramas (fingers crossed!!!)
So if you would like to go through all of this please email me and i would gladly give you his phone number
Cheers
dogsrocket

#195776 - 05/24/06 4:22 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
Redman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Redman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
San Francisco
OUCH......hope I don't run into as much trouble getting my QPD sorted out. As of now...everything fit in/on nicely but the release seems to be giving me trouble. It is not releasing cleanly...I'll post progress.
K


Life is short but very wide.
#195777 - 05/25/06 10:59 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
Redman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Redman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
San Francisco
Progress report:
I disassembled everything and cREFULLY cleaned all parts. Did a careful check of all clearances. Checked to see that the cable and actuating lever etc were smooth and free working. Reassembly produced same results...not enough release to disengage diaphragm from pressure plate. Hmmm....
next I screwed in the adjuster grub at clutch center...way in...now clutch releases fine. Apparently my aftermarket clutch lever is not pulling the cable enough. Measured from the center of lever pivot to center of cable-end barrel...1 1/4 inches. Could one of you guys measure a stock lever and post the measurement? Howabout total movement of cable when clutch lever is pilled all the way to the grip(or until stock clutch disengages) and distance from pivot center to barrel center? Thanks guys.....
K


Life is short but very wide.
#195778 - 05/25/06 11:03 pm Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
Redman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Redman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,058
San Francisco
To clarify...I just measured amount of movement of actuator arm on timing side...at the very end where the cable pulls...3/8ths inch of movement with my present clutch lever.
How much does YOURS move?


Life is short but very wide.
#195779 - 05/26/06 11:06 am Re: A-65 belt drive kits... available ??  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
beltdriveman Offline
BritBike Forum
beltdriveman  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
Many apologies.
Trouble is that now olde age has got me I tend to
'blow' totally forgetting how ignorant I was in my youth /still am but still making efforts to learn.....
Just put my bumph down to my being a member of SKOFF. (Senile Knackered Olde Farts Federation...Badge comprises of crossed walking sticks with in various segments...zimmer frame with go faster stripes, ,,false teeth...thick lensed pair of glasses.) Not as good as my F.A.R.T badge which actually stood for Further Advanced Redundancy Training as we at Marconi Radar were yet again under threat. Management didnt like the badge on my boilersuit but customers fell about laughing as I explained I was training to become a bondage meister after having seen one in action on a porn channel dressed in his Alpine leather gear abusing a tied up young lady with a big feather...Tnought to myself 'now I could hack that as a career change!!'....I then put Trainee Bondage Meister under the badge and it was AMAZEING how many women would start up conversations......... Marconi Radar or AMS as it was then was a company that told its Field Staff to wear the supplied blue boilersuits when in dockyards /on board HM ships.......guess the colour of the suits worn by dockyard bog cleaners and the comments from the bridge as AMS staff approached a ship.........Another example of British management at its best.......
No spell or other checks done..

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