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#147387 - 08/23/08 7:21 pm 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 38
PY66 Offline
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PY66  Offline
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Posts: 38
Phoenix Arizona
Sorted seized camplate plunger reassembled bike charged battery checked oil level looked good give it fresh plugs & gas fired it up Great.
I decided to make sure the oil was flowing so I removed filler & mount edna erupted. So I drained oil cleaned strainer in frame reassemble with new gaskets filled oil level to marker on dip stick fired her up run down the street to check gears all working great decided to check oil for oil flowing did exactly the same again
Oil everywhere
Any ideas where my problem is ?

Thanks

Peter


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
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#147388 - 08/23/08 7:43 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2005
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
When you say Mount Etna are you saying oil
1) overflowed or
2) was pumping out under pressure?
Did you remove the oil lines from the pump? You have them reversed


Steve in Tulsa
#147389 - 08/23/08 7:44 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,224
JubeePrince Online content
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JubeePrince  Online Content

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Back on the mainland!
clogged oil vent pipe?

clogged rocker feed pipe?

Steve

[edited to add to Steve in Tulsa's thoughts]

Oil junction pipes for unit twins:

Front = Feed
Rear = Return


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#147390 - 08/23/08 7:48 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Prince, I thought about that but the oil flow to the rockers is minimal. That's why I asked if it's pumping or just over flowed. He was under the bike so I wondered if he pulled the oil feed and return lines.
--
PY, did the oil/ignition light go out or stay on or did you notice?


Steve in Tulsa
#147391 - 08/23/08 8:27 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Jack Adams Offline
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Jack Adams  Offline
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Noblesville, IN
PY, If you filled the frame up to the full mark with no regard for what there was in the crankcase, once the motor is running I would expect an overflow situation. Jack

#147392 - 08/23/08 8:50 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2007
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PY66 Offline
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PY66  Offline
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Posts: 38
Phoenix Arizona
Steve
Overflowed very fast as if too much oil but I did not drain the crankcase like Jack said.Should I drain the crankcase & see how much oil I get out ? oil light goes out as soon as I kickit over but the light does come back on


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
#147393 - 08/23/08 9:07 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
PY said:

Quote:
oil light goes out as soon as I kick it over but the light does come back on
But are we talking running engine? If you kick it and the light goes out then the pump is filling the relief valve. But this just needs to be residual oil in the line.
BUT, IF WHEN RUNNING, the light comes back on, you have no oil pressure or a bad relief valve.You have to determine which it is BEFORE you ride any more. The best way is with a pressure gauge.
But you did not answer the question: Did you remove the oil feed and return lines to work on the bike? If you did the feed line from the OIF goes to right side feed tube under the timing cover. The return is the left.
If the crank is full then it is wet sumping - another issue.
The poor mans test:
1) check the line placement and
2) if correct, drain some oil from the OIF, start the bike and see if it's pumping back from the pump. Just don't run it long. You will know in a few seconds.
Let us know
HTH


Steve in Tulsa
#147394 - 08/23/08 10:48 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2007
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PY66 Offline
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PY66  Offline
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Phoenix Arizona
Steve

Sorry no I did not remove oil feed lines I will hook a pressure gauge up & report back

Thanks


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
#147395 - 08/23/08 11:18 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Connect the pressure gauge in place of the relief valve.
Let us know.
HTH


Steve in Tulsa
#147396 - 08/24/08 12:34 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Oct 2003
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RF Whatley Online content
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RF Whatley  Online Content
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North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by PY66:
Overflowed very fast as if too much oil but I did not drain the crankcase...
KY66 -
When you say overflowed, we assume you are talking about engine oil and I assume you are talking about the engine oil tank which is accessed from under the seat. Meaning: you removed the cap to the tank and the oil flowed out the fill cap.

If this is the case then nothing is wrong. No measurements are needed. Your bike is working correctly.

The only issue is that you've over-filled the engine oil, and this most probably by over-filling the primary case. The primary and engine oil are shared, so that when you over fill the primary, the oil pump evacuates the excess back to the tank like it should. When you take off the oil tank inspection cap, then Surprise! there it is.

If this is the case, then you really should measure more carefully as per your manuals.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#147397 - 08/24/08 12:36 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Oct 2003
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RF Whatley Online content
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RF Whatley  Online Content
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North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve in Tulsa:
Connect the pressure gauge in place of the relief valve.
This I gotta see.

I think he means in place of the oil pressure sender, not the OPRV.

laughing


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#147398 - 08/24/08 3:09 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
RF, uh...yes, that's what I meant. :rolleyes:


Steve in Tulsa
#147399 - 08/24/08 3:23 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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PY66 Offline
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PY66  Offline
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Phoenix Arizona
Steve

For once I new what you meant & where to install it will let you guys know tomorrow how it works out


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
#147400 - 08/24/08 3:28 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Quote:
For once I new what you meant & where to install it will let you guys know tomorrow how it works out
darn, just once? eek
laughing


Steve in Tulsa
#147401 - 08/24/08 10:12 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Tiger Offline
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Melbourne Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve in Tulsa:
RF, uh...yes, that's what I meant. :rolleyes:
I was going to hand you s#it about that but Richard beat me to it frown laugh

All the best Engineering systems have multiple review and this is one of the best bigt


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
#147402 - 08/24/08 6:03 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2007
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PY66 Offline
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PY66  Offline
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Phoenix Arizona
Installed pressure gauge fired it up very little low oil pressure lucky if I get a reading on tickover if I rev to 3K maybe get 25psi
Bad oil pump ? or dirty maybe ?


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
#147403 - 08/24/08 7:21 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Ouch! I have 70 PSI at 3000 and 15-20 PSI idle warm.
1) Bad pump
2) bad crank seal in timing cover
3) bad ( internally) oil line from OIF to pump
4) clogged oil screen filter in reservoir
5) garbage in feed side of pump
Good luck, don't ride it.
OK , RF and Tiger, tell him what I mean laughing


Steve in Tulsa
#147404 - 08/24/08 8:26 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Oct 2003
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RF Whatley Online content
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RF Whatley  Online Content
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North Georgia, USA
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Steve in Tulsa:
<strong> Ouch! I have 70 PSI at 3000 and 15-20 PSI idle warm. OK , RF and Tiger, tell him what I mean bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#147405 - 08/24/08 9:05 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Posts: 1,211
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Quote:
What Steve was really trying to say was don't ride the bike, don't start the bike, don't even sit on it until it's fixed. [Laughing]
Yep, that's it. Now why didn't I say that? laughing


Steve in Tulsa
#147406 - 08/24/08 9:42 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Kelly in Tulsa Offline
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Kelly in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa
You guys are scaring me here! Steve can you drop by the house sometime...and bring your gauges? I got beer!

#147407 - 08/24/08 10:30 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Steve in Tulsa Offline
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Steve in Tulsa  Offline
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Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Kelly, Sure. I'll email you.


Steve in Tulsa
#147408 - 08/25/08 1:09 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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RF Whatley Online content
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RF Whatley  Online Content
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North Georgia, USA
Steve -
Can you drop by the house sometime... forget the gauges, bring the beer.

beerchug


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#147409 - 08/25/08 1:56 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 38
PY66 Offline
BritBike Forum
PY66  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 38
Phoenix Arizona
Hell if you all lived nearer forget it all I have the bike most tools & a fridge full of cold beer
Thanks I will follow your recommendations step by step


1959 Francis Barnett 250cc Cruiser
1973 Triumph 650cc Bonneville
1978 Triumph 750cc Bonneville
1971 Norton 750cc Commando (We Think)
#147410 - 08/25/08 6:15 am Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
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Blapper Offline
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Blapper  Offline
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Kent UK
Hey PY, don't forget to report back. bigt

Blapper redwine

#147411 - 08/25/08 5:10 pm Re: 78 T140 Too much oil  
Joined: Oct 2003
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RF Whatley Online content
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RF Whatley  Online Content
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North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Blapper:
Hey PY, don't forget to report back. bigt
Inquiring minds want to know.

beerchug


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
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