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High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145760
07/27/08 10:45 am
07/27/08 10:45 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 52
SW Lincs
S
snatchpiece Offline OP
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SW Lincs
Has anyone ever removed the bronze bush from the High Gear on a unit twin?
I need to replace the one on my 5TA as it's worn where the primary oil seal runs. How do you get it out? and how do you replace it? do you heat the gear and freeze the bush? I've read somewhere that once fitted it needs to be reamed to size, is this so? All replies/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


Early 1959 Triumph 5TA.
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Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145761
07/27/08 11:03 am
07/27/08 11:03 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,607
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
In the manual they give you the dimensions of a drift to use on this bearing. You use this to press it out in a big vice or a fly press. You press it out from the teeth end. When you put the new one in the oil groove goes on the gearbox side, ie, the teeth end again. You do have to get it reamed to the clearance in the manual.

By the way, I got a shop to do this whole job!

Dave

Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145762
07/27/08 12:35 pm
07/27/08 12:35 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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North Georgia, USA
If you'll cut the bush with a hacksaw blade, the old one will collapse inward and fall out. Then use your mainshaft as a mandrel. It just happens to be the right size.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145763
07/28/08 11:19 am
07/28/08 11:19 am
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 98
Netherlands
J
Jacco van D. Offline
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Jacco van D.  Offline
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J
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Posts: 98
Netherlands
Last year I renewed the bush on a 500 Daytona engine.

Just push the old one out with your vice and a piece of round material (for instance an old socket).

On the opposite of the gear place a tube where the old bush will "fall" in.
Press the new one in with a piece of round polyamide or soft metal and also the vice.

After fitting I didnt have to ream the bush.

Good luck.

PS: A couple of years ago my dealer told me that I couldnt do it myself. He sent it away to an engineering firm. It costed me a lot of money (especially handling charges, I think).


Triumph T100T 1969
Triumph TR6R 1972
Triumph T25T 1971
BSA B25 Fleetstar 1968
Laverda 750SF 1971
TWN Boss 1954
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145764
07/28/08 11:28 am
07/28/08 11:28 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Melbourne Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by RF Whatley:
If you'll cut the bush with a hacksaw blade, the old one will collapse inward and fall out. Then use your mainshaft as a mandrel. It just happens to be the right size.
Dry Richard, very dry. :rolleyes: bigt


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145765
07/28/08 12:08 pm
07/28/08 12:08 pm
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 52
SW Lincs
S
snatchpiece Offline OP
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snatchpiece  Offline OP
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SW Lincs
Thanks for all the replies and advice folks, I've ordered a new bush and will attempt to remove the existing one tonight.

Thanks again,

Mick.


Early 1959 Triumph 5TA.
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145766
07/28/08 12:31 pm
07/28/08 12:31 pm
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
andrewinpopayan Offline
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Halifax, Butt end of Europe
Hi there Mick. It looks like you're doing the whole box. While you're in there you might as well replace the large output shaft bearing. I got a double rubber shielded replacement and "pickled" out the inside rubber seal from the bearing and left the "outside" one in place, seems to help keep the oil inside the gearbox. I read that you were replacing the output shaft oil seal, well they come out easier than they go in. I improvided a puller to pull into position with a couple of large steel washers and an M12 nuts and bolt as a drawer-er. The littke seal on the cover is easy to do with your fingers. By the way I got both seals as "standard" stock from a local bearing shop, I bought both double lip seals, the main bearing and got change out of a tenner!

Is yours the early type gearbox with a PB bush on the DS of the layshaft and PB bush inside the kickstart?


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145767
07/29/08 7:15 am
07/29/08 7:15 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 52
SW Lincs
S
snatchpiece Offline OP
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snatchpiece  Offline OP
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Posts: 52
SW Lincs
Quote:
Originally posted by andrewinpopayan:
I got a double rubber shielded replacement and "pickled" out the inside rubber seal from the bearing and left the "outside" one in place, seems to help keep the oil inside the gearbox.
Thanks for this, wouldn't the oil seal run dry and deteriorate?


Early 1959 Triumph 5TA.
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145768
07/29/08 8:05 am
07/29/08 8:05 am
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 737
Reading UK
twinspin Offline
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Reading UK
Quote:
Originally posted by snatchpiece:
Quote:
Originally posted by andrewinpopayan:
I got a double rubber shielded replacement and "pickled" out the inside rubber seal from the bearing and left the "outside" one in place, seems to help keep the oil inside the gearbox.
Thanks for this, wouldn't the oil seal run dry and deteriorate?
I reckon you've got a point there. I think the seal is prone to wear and it is also important to put some initial lube on the seal. I don't think that they last a long time anyway after being replaced even if you do all the right things.


1971 T100R
1970 T120
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145769
07/29/08 12:40 pm
07/29/08 12:40 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,158
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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Posts: 10,158
Boston, Massachusetts
Some of us guys remember how Triumph did it. You know things like: pre-sizing the replacement bushing so once it is installed it is ready to use.

They did this for a lot of bronze bushings like the connecing rod wrist pin, gearbox mainshaft high gear, various transmission gears, etc. It made working on these old bikes a lot easier.

RF and myself learned this trade in a different time. RF also has the unique privilage of working with Beno Rodi who has a vast stock of n.o.s. parts so he might not have come upon the current state of bushings technology.

And this is where I have to disagree with RF: "Then use your mainshaft as a mandrel. It just happens to be the right size."

The practice of pre-sizing bushings has been abandoned. One can rarely find a bushing made by Triumph. Nearly all after-market bushings available today are NOT pre-sized, and require "sizing" after installation.

So if you follow RF suggestion without doing a bit of checking, and are not capable enough to figure the amount the inside diameter of the bush will be reduced by the press fit, then using your mainshaft as a mandrel, as it just happens to be the WRONG size, will lead to your mainshaft stuck inside the mainshaft high gear.

Depending on when you begin to understand that you are in trouble, removal of said mainshaft from the high gear could be a confounded nusiance...
j


Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145770
07/29/08 3:07 pm
07/29/08 3:07 pm
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
andrewinpopayan Offline
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andrewinpopayan  Offline
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Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
Quote:
seems to help keep the oil inside the gearbox.
I should have added "a bit longer", it still weeps, but MUCH less, there will be more than enough "weepage" to keep a lip seal lubed. If you are worried about it, put a pat of grease between the outside of the bearing and the seal.


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145771
07/29/08 4:59 pm
07/29/08 4:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by John Healy:
So if you follow RF suggestion without doing a bit of checking, [it] will lead to your mainshaft stuck inside the mainshaft high gear.
Well, come to think of it, the last one I did was in 1971.

:rolleyes:


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145772
07/29/08 8:12 pm
07/29/08 8:12 pm
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
andrewinpopayan Offline
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andrewinpopayan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
Old one probably has less slop than a NOS :rolleyes: one anyway


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145773
07/29/08 8:31 pm
07/29/08 8:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 466
Dallas Texas
RPM Offline
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Dallas Texas
The seal wears down the bush before the mainshaft does. A Jack Wilson trick was to push bushing out far enough to get to good surface for the seal and cut it off in the lathe. The mainshaft will never know the bush is a little shorter.

Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145774
07/30/08 7:14 am
07/30/08 7:14 am
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 52
SW Lincs
S
snatchpiece Offline OP
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snatchpiece  Offline OP
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SW Lincs
Quote:
Originally posted by RPM:
The seal wears down the bush before the mainshaft does. A Jack Wilson trick was to push bushing out far enough to get to good surface for the seal and cut it off in the lathe. The mainshaft will never know the bush is a little shorter.
That's not a bad idea, we're only talking about an 1/8th of an inch or so.


Early 1959 Triumph 5TA.
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145775
07/30/08 4:53 pm
07/30/08 4:53 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
IMHO that's a terrible idea, considering that you have to take the primary and g/b completely apart just to get high gear out. Then after 3 hours of hard work, you're going to skimp on a $10 bush.

How hard will you kick yourself if the trick doesn't work? It's another 3 hours of hard work in front of you when you could have done it correctly to begin with.

Personally speaking, my time is worth money. About $40 per hour. So by doing this, I'm spending $120 to save less than $10. The numbers just don't justify the pitiful savings.

If you want to skimp on something, do it on the foot peg rubbers or some such that you can redo in a moment.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145776
07/30/08 6:47 pm
07/30/08 6:47 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 466
Dallas Texas
RPM Offline
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RPM  Offline
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Posts: 466
Dallas Texas
RF, You have not done this since 1971. The bush 57-1370 now retails for nearly 40.00 dollars and the new bush might have to be honed or reamed to fit. That job can always turn into a can of worms. Not to mention waiting a couple of days on the part if you had to order it. I have three in stock but would still push it out and cut it off if the mainshaft fit was still good.

Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145777
07/30/08 7:24 pm
07/30/08 7:24 pm
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
andrewinpopayan Offline
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Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
I am in the next county, why dont you post me the gear and shaft and I'll MAKE you the bush, fit it inside the gear AND ream it to fit the shaft for 50, including returning it back to you by "next day" delivery.


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145778
07/30/08 8:16 pm
07/30/08 8:16 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,075
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

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Rich B  Offline

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R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,075
Stone Creek OH USA
RFW sez:

"IMHO that's a terrible idea, considering that you have to take the primary and g/b completely apart just to get high gear out. Then after 3 hours of hard work, you're going to skimp on a $10 bush."

Ahhh, it might be a terrible idea to you, but it works laugh . And it ain't a $10.00 bushing anymore as some one else pointed out. Carefully removing the bushing and reinstalling it 180 opposite works too...not that I would be cheap and do that to double bushing life :p . Or is that a terrible idea too?


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145779
07/30/08 10:49 pm
07/30/08 10:49 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,158
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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John Healy  Offline

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,158
Boston, Massachusetts
$40 an hour, They charge that much in Boston to cut lawns...


Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145780
07/31/08 2:40 am
07/31/08 2:40 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,222
North Georgia, USA
For $40 I can go to the on-line bushing shop and order several, re-bush yours and charge you $120!

At that price I'd sooner be tempted to try to graft a steel ring onto the end of the old bush. Or buy a used late model high gear with the extended steel portion.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: High Gear Mainshaft Bush #145781
08/03/08 7:28 pm
08/03/08 7:28 pm
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 52
SW Lincs
S
snatchpiece Offline OP
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Posts: 52
SW Lincs
I've pushed the bush out 1/8" and machined 1/8" off the other end, it looks fine, and I am now rebuilding the thing. The replacement bush I ordered definitely requires reaming. I must admit I can see merit in both points of view about doing/not doing this, my decision was reached because I haven't had the bike long and want to ride it and get to know it before I do a complete nut & bolt restoration. I reckon an 1/8" less support for the high gear will survive as I'm not going to thrash it (it's a 5TA after all) and I'll replace the bush when I do the full resto.
Thanks to all who replied, I've learnt a lot and I hope others who read this will also benefit.


Early 1959 Triumph 5TA.

Moderated by  John Healy 


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