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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126220
10/16/07 1:42 pm
10/16/07 1:42 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
R
relicduke Offline
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R

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
OK lets review shall we?
Engine ran for a few seconds after using ether
now the engine will not turn over
will roll in neutral but not in gear.
that about right?
I stick by my first idea,rings/pistons stuck because the ether washed away the oil
I am an animal thug, get a big friend and push the bike as hard as you can,in gear,on pavement.Dump the clutch.Should bust 'er loose. Failing that you will have to pop the head off and smack the piston{s} pith a piece of maple and a big hammer.


poverty is the mother of invention
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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126221
10/16/07 3:01 pm
10/16/07 3:01 pm
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
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Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Sir Duke,

You are correct. The engine ran for about 30 seconds using a few sprays of ether to get it going. After about 10 seconds, it ran on gasoline and I let go of the throttle to let it putter out.

Engine will now not turn over, although I have not attempted to turn anything with the clutch pulled in on the handlebar as I have some cable issues.

As soon as I get the clutch cable repaired I shall animal-thug it down my hill and release the clutch. For the benefit of those who have helped me, I will do so wearing only a banana.


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126222
10/16/07 7:05 pm
10/16/07 7:05 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
R
relicduke Offline
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R

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
Eric.
Meby take the plugs out to gain a bit more advantage.
A friend once gave me a 750K that had stuck after two weeks in his cellar,he put break fluid in the cylinders{?} to fee it up. we hauled it up and down the road with a half ton,nearly wore out the hind tire{lotsa beer makes this stuff fun}
doesn't have any bearing on the case at hand,I just like telling that story


poverty is the mother of invention
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126223
10/16/07 9:10 pm
10/16/07 9:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,542
Kent UK
Blapper Offline
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Kent UK
Was that a typo - did you mean bandana? If not, you may be on the wrong forum mate eek

Blapper redwine

Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126224
10/16/07 9:48 pm
10/16/07 9:48 pm
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
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Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
I have marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and need to attach the rear fender before sitting on it and letting the clutch out. I'm going to work on those two items over the next couple of nights. I do need to do laundry tonight however and vacuum. Maybe order a pizza too. Does anyone want more details???


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126225
10/17/07 1:08 am
10/17/07 1:08 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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NSW Australia
1. Re laundry and vacuum...get a girlfriend and more beer
2. Re clutch basket ...get a manual and a parts book,and more beer....
laugh
A basket of clutches...

[Linked Image]


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126226
10/17/07 1:16 am
10/17/07 1:16 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
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Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
That's interesting, I see three primary drive (?) sprockets on the left there, my machine has two.

RE girlfriend, I've got one of those "modern" women that are single moms and work all day and have the kid at night leaving me to do laundry and vacuum. Luckily, I have a well-developed taste for hop-flavoured water.

Thanks for the cool picture. I don't see that in my CD-manual.


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126227
10/17/07 1:41 am
10/17/07 1:41 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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NSW Australia
laughing
thats out of my 76/77 parts cat...just to give u an idea...
...im single,so i have to do ALL the chores with out the female benefits :rolleyes:


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126228
10/17/07 4:55 am
10/17/07 4:55 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 874
Manchester, Connecticut, USA
Tom D. 67 Bonny Offline
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Manchester, Connecticut, USA
Brian, That explains why you are still sane after all these years. Except for having limey fixation disease pint


Tom D. 1967 T120R Bonneville
Anyone know of a place that sells Loctite
by the quart?
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126229
10/17/07 10:53 am
10/17/07 10:53 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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NSW Australia
laughing ....bikes can be bit ches too sometimes laugh


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126230
10/17/07 2:18 pm
10/17/07 2:18 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
dfw tx
kevy republic of Texas Offline
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dfw tx
Mine was very solid when I bought it it had been sitting 20 years. I used the PB blaster from Walmart and had to leave it sit over night. I wolud take the plugs out first and spray it in there and leave it sit for a few days before trying. This did break the rust bond. if you can rock it back and forth in fourth gear,with the plugs out it should break free. I would try that before taking the head off and TAPPING on it with a dowel.


if all else fails read the directions.
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126231
10/17/07 9:01 pm
10/17/07 9:01 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,609
Nor Cal near Sutters mill.
Roadwarrior Offline

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Nor Cal near Sutters mill.
Hopefully you will not have to use the hammer and wood cog method. It is no fun. Be careful not to miss the maple stick, you don't want to buy new cylindars (from experience). Use lots of penetrating oil, and let it sit a few days after you put the oil. I've been through it, no fun at all even with beer.


The shrieking of nothing is killing



Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126232
10/17/07 11:24 pm
10/17/07 11:24 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,011
Canada
Gunk Offline
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Canada
Cush drive fell apart in mine and did exactly the same thing.
Until the clutch is pulled there is no certainty the engine is seized.

Gunk


"he who laughs fast, laughs first"~Gunk
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126233
10/18/07 8:24 am
10/18/07 8:24 am
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 594
australia
6
649 Offline
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australia
Id be taking off the primary chain to isolate clutch/gearbox and motor...if its not a split link chain clutch and alternator/rotor front sprocket must be removed..I cant see why it would be locked so tight after a few days sitting tho if it was running and you just turned it off...any funny noises anywhere before it stopped...did you check oil circulation while it was running


1970 tr6r dryframe
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126234
10/18/07 9:18 am
10/18/07 9:18 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Melbourne Australia
Locked up that quickly puzzles me also.
If rings are rusted to bores it may be less brutal to slack off the rinal drive chain and rock the bike back and forward in top gear.
Top gear transmits most torque to the crankshaft and the slack rear chain gives you a little momentum.
I would do that for an hour before resorting to towing and dumping the clutch but if you have to do that think about using top or third gear.
Go gently or you will shear the woodruff key between the clutch and mainshaft [part # 22 in Brians pic]
Another thought just popped into my head, Loctite does a spray called "Freeze Ease" [or something like that] it uses thermal shock and penetrating oil to ease seized things, I reckon the rings would show a different "temperature gradient" than the barrels due to radically different mass.
Check for ugly things like both piston crowns not being at the same height before towing, I would pull the head off for a look before towing.
Good luck and if the above works I would sure like one of those stickers laugh


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126235
10/18/07 10:30 am
10/18/07 10:30 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
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Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
You can get your sticker right now at the same place I bought mine, from a guy named Truth at http://www.choppahead.com


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126236
10/18/07 2:40 pm
10/18/07 2:40 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,099
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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btour Offline
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B

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Massachusetts, U.S.A.
This an interesting problem.

Hard to imagine rust is that bad after such a short time.

If problem is with engine, check to make sure oil is not somehow too full, fluid locking it.

Else seizure is probably thermal caused. Yikes.

I saw a piston and jugs where piece of cylinder was ripped out and part of piston mashed. Cause was improper squish factor with pushrod tube seals and, and air coming into hot cylinder.

You mentioned that you let it run until it died? You mean ran out of gas? At what idle? Hope not fast. It has never happened to me, but I heard of a rebuilt motor being ruined when a petcock did not work and engine gas starved, making a lean running. I do not know why this would have happened, though.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126237
10/18/07 4:44 pm
10/18/07 4:44 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,269
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Posts: 11,269
North Georgia, USA
Quote
Originally posted by RF Whatley:
Eric -
Does the clutch basket rotate back and forth as much as the primary chain will allow? This may only be 1/8 inch, but rotation is rotation.
Again -
Will the clutch basket/assy rotate back and forth several degrees with the primary chain slop?

Inquiring minds want to know.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126238
10/19/07 12:14 am
10/19/07 12:14 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
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Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Alright. I attached the clutch cable to the handle grip. And this thing does NOT move. Doesn't budge. It moves with the slack in the 9 foot clutch cable, but that's the only movement.

There's no pulling this clutch in.

So! Any suggestions for forcing a clutch in? Some sort of bearing puller type thing clamped around the gearbox housing? That just sounds like it couldn't fail. eek

:g: :g: :g:


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126239
10/19/07 12:17 am
10/19/07 12:17 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943 Offline OP
BritBike Forum
Eric Mumford / 1971 TR6R GE27943  Offline OP
BritBike Forum

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Waterford, NY USA
So I also wiggled the primary with the little slack that it has in the chain around the crank. Annnnd I can't tell if the clutch basket is rotating or not. I mean... does 1/64" count as moving? It's pretty tight.

I remember that when the gears were... in gear, and I'd pull the clutch in, the kickstart would *WHOOP* slip right down. Um, I can't pull the clutch in anymore, so I can't really test that.

Any ideas for a next step?


--> Eric Mumford, Waterford NY USA. 1971 Triumph 650 TR6R GE27943 <--
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126240
10/19/07 2:13 am
10/19/07 2:13 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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NSW Australia
well if it was me id put away the hammer,chisel and dynamite and bring out the manual,some patience and plenty of cold brown liquid and start some gentle investigative dismantling....id start with the clutch assembly then, as suggested ,the head... 2c


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126241
10/20/07 1:57 pm
10/20/07 1:57 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
R
relicduke Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
Nova Scotia
Eric
What's goin' on?
Yhe suspense is driving me mad{er}


poverty is the mother of invention
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126242
10/20/07 3:07 pm
10/20/07 3:07 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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NSW Australia
maybe his computer seized too....or he got run over by the vacumm cleaner laugh


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126243
10/20/07 3:48 pm
10/20/07 3:48 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,099
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
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btour Offline
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Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Hi Eric, and all,

Sorry I did not read your original post well enough. I see you shut the bike off.

You took the "kicker plate" off? Right. What is a kicker plate? You mean the plate at bottom of tank/frame? You found which engine fluid to be watery? Engine oil? Primary oil? Gear oil?

You stored it indoors? Where? A shed? Barn? House? Was there constant heat? Or sometimes? Worse is sometimes.

What was last ride like before storage? What the temp and humidity? Like where did all the water come from?

Like others have indicated, maybe the clutch is just stuck. Cable on yet? Pull clutch in and tie it open, and wait a night.

Although rolling it with plugs out should move pistons. Try it backwards on an incline. Worked for me. Bunch of mmm came out exhaust pipes and way she went. That was 5,000 miles ago.

Was the wire mesh screen installed in tank? Was it intact?

Hope that is all. Good advice is to change engine oil after storage BEFORE starting. And kick it a bunch of times before starting.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: 1971 Triumph Tiger 650 - started up, and seized! Help me get unstuck? #126244
10/21/07 4:58 am
10/21/07 4:58 am
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,609
Nor Cal near Sutters mill.
Roadwarrior Offline

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Nor Cal near Sutters mill.
I'm with Eric, the suspense is killing me, well almost.


The shrieking of nothing is killing



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