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Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #104999
11/12/06 1:04 pm
11/12/06 1:04 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,457
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

Life member
JubeePrince  Offline

Life member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,457
Back on the mainland!
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn:
Dave:

I thought the trans is 1 up and 3 down,
Is 1st all the way down on the shifter?

Lynn,

It's 1 down 3 up (assuming it's a four-speed).....Yes, 1st is all the way down, just below neutral....

HTH,

Steve Prince


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
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Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105000
11/12/06 5:36 pm
11/12/06 5:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,144
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Jon W. Whitley  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,144
Vermont
Lynn,

I realize this thread started about static timing your bike, but your comments about the shift pattern and not being familiar with right side shift is something of an issue.

After I made the mistake of letting a friend..who knew how to ride motorcycles ride my right hand shift bike....I learned never to make the mistake again. It almost cost him his life. I watched him coast through a 4 way intersection trying to hit the brake ( shift lever ). It was terrifying for me.He promptly pulled over after the inersection and stalling the bike and I took control of the bike from there...with a few choice words (friendly chiding of course) but the results could have been disastrous.

I whole heartedly recommend that you go to the local strip mall, mall, shopping center with a big open parking lot and get real comfortable with the shifter and brake. Once you feel comfortable, then set yourself up with some self devised panic situations in the same parking lot.

It may take a few days or a week, but that's time needed and well spent for the long run. I fortunately have been riding right side shift bikes since I was 16...now 38. I can ride the left as well, but a right feels so much better!

beerchug


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105001
11/12/06 7:09 pm
11/12/06 7:09 pm
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
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jimsigs  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Hi Folks,
Been observing this thread with great interest, especially the mention of timing marks on rotors and dropping the timing pin in the crank to find TDC & BTDC.
I have a 1966 T100SS engine and decided to follow this proceedure. Firstly, there are no timing marks on my rotor only the word Lucas and opposite the number 54212006 preceeded by the little mercedes star symbol.
Dropped the timing pin into the crank I found two lock up points. Sorted out which one was TDC and BTDC by using my sparking plug device to indicate the difference between the two. I notice that BTDC shows up on the rotor between the letters A and S of Lucas. TDC is a little way to the right of the word Lucas. So I have now marked both these points on the rotor as my reference points.
Does all of this make sense RF

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105002
11/12/06 8:37 pm
11/12/06 8:37 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Jimsigs- You are lucky there as the '66 didn't originally have two slots in the crank or the three screw rotor cover. My '67 650 has one slot in the crank (tdc), no cover over the rotor and in any case there are no marks on the rotor. I use the tdc tool on the compression stroke and then fit a degree disc to the cam, zero it and then strobe it. In your case you could make your rotor marks bright with paint, use the reference pointer, or mark one on the cover and then use a strobe- it is far more accurate than static timing.
Dave

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105003
11/12/06 9:56 pm
11/12/06 9:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
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jimsigs  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Hi Dave,
Yes, a bit of luck with the two slots in the crank on my 500CC T100SS. The three screw rotor cover is not standard on this engine but I aquired a new old stock a few weeks ago for the very purpose of making it easy to set up timing etc.
I think all I have to do now is set the timing on BTDC and then fit the Boyer bransden ignition magnetic rotor at the BTDC postion, presumably at fully advanced.
Does that sound right Dave.
Regards jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105004
11/12/06 11:30 pm
11/12/06 11:30 pm
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 84
Knoxville
L
Lynn Offline OP
BritBike Forum
Lynn  Offline OP
BritBike Forum
L

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 84
Knoxville
I finally posted some after photos of the bike on the other thread (to keep them all together) Photos

There is a shot of my driveway I tried to pull in 2nd gear. I drove around the neighborhood Sunday afternoon for about 10 minutes and being in the correct gear makes a big difference. The bike is running strong.

Happy to report, that in 49 degree temperature, the bike started 1st kick. I did cheat a little with a small squirt of starter fluid in each carb. My gas is somewhat stale and needs to be changed, so I thought the starter fluid was easier than lots of kicks.

Lots of stuff yet to do, including rehabing the points. I don't have a balance tube between carbs, but I'm going to work on trying to get them as closely synced as possible.


Lynn
Knoxville
72 120R Triumph
80 R65 BMW
Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105005
11/12/06 11:43 pm
11/12/06 11:43 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by jimsigs:
I have a 1966 T100SS engine and decided to follow this proceedure. ... Dropped the timing pin into the crank I found two lock up points. Sorted out which one was TDC and BTDC by using my sparking plug device to indicate the difference between the two. ... Does all of this make sense RF
No it doesn't. Be afraid. As Dave mentioned, someone would have had to install a late model crank. The 1966 models only have TDC notches, and then you have to use a degree wheel from there.

IME, the crank stop pin can also become encumbered (I won't say fall into) the flywheel bolt hole. I would go back with a degree wheel and check, remove the tool and have a good look at the flywheel "slot" and just generally make "double darn sure" before I went driving around with that timing.

"With the care of a watchmaker."

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105006
11/13/06 1:11 am
11/13/06 1:11 am
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
BritBike Forum member
jimsigs  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Thanks for the input RF.
I will certainly check out the flywheel hole(s) tomorrow with a pencil torch. When I originally stripped the engine down to renew barrel/pistons etc, I did notice that one of the conrods had been replaced. Don't know why. Tried to contact the last two previous owners but havn't received any replies to date.
Will keep you posted RF
Regards Jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105007
11/13/06 2:14 am
11/13/06 2:14 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Jimsigs -
The "real" crank timing pin slot is about .100" wide and about .30" wide across. It's NOT a hole or a simple divot.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105008
11/13/06 4:24 pm
11/13/06 4:24 pm
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
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jimsigs  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Hi RF,
Many thanks for your reply.
I have checked out the proper timing pin slot for TDC on my 1966 T100SS engine, double checking this was correct by inserting rod tool in the right hand sparking plug hole.

This shows the piston at its highest point. I have then set up a timing disc (Wassells), and set a pointer to zero on the disc. to represent TDC.

The 'other' timing pin slot which as you say is a bogus slot/bolt hole shows up as 19 degrees on the timing disc before TDC.

My question is what actual degree mark should I be setting the timing disc to, to indicate the correct BTDC of 38 degrees for this engine.
Sorry for being a bit thick in the head but would value your advice.

Regards
Jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105009
11/13/06 5:33 pm
11/13/06 5:33 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by jimsigs:
I have checked out the proper timing pin slot for TDC on my 1966 T100SS engine.... I have then set up a timing disc (Wassells), and set a pointer to zero on the disc to represent TDC.
Never hurts to have a look-see, eh?


Quote:
Originally posted by jimsigs:
The 'other' timing pin slot which as you say is a bogus slot/bolt hole shows up as 19 degrees on the timing disc before TDC.
Which I warned MAY be bogus, since it could only be achieved by heroic means. You may well have a late model crank, if so GREAT!


Quote:
Originally posted by jimsigs:
My question is what actual degree mark should I be setting the timing disc to, to indicate the correct BTDC of 38 degrees for this engine.
Sorry for being a bit thick in the head but would value your advice.
Your head CAN'T be any thicker than mine! bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105010
11/13/06 6:27 pm
11/13/06 6:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
BritBike Forum member
jimsigs  Offline
BritBike Forum member
J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Thanks RF,

It looks as if you are 100% correct. I have a 360 degree wassell timing disc mounted on the crank. When the timing pin dropped into the bogus slot, the pointer on the timing disc read out as 19 degrees instead of 38 as you mentioned.

Also, the special tool inserted in the spark plug hole is measured in mm. The difference between TDC and the so called bogus slot using this tool is 11mm

So it looks like a later crankshaft hasn't been fitted and only the TDC slot is cosher.

Just a thought, if I turn the crank back so that the pointer is at 38 degrees, the special tool in the sparking plug hole drops right down almost out of sight.

Warmest Regards
Jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105011
11/13/06 6:31 pm
11/13/06 6:31 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Jimsigs- Is your Wassell timing disc the one that fits to the exhaust camshaft with a screw in adapter? If so, this is the one I have. When you have your Boyer , or points or whatever installed, the disc mounts over it. With the engine set at tdc, you zero the disc with a very rigid pointer that you will have rigged up. I used a long 1/4 bsf bolt in a timing cover screw hole, with a nut and aluminium strip pointer. You then start the engine and point a strobe at the disc. Connect the strobe to a battery separate from the machines electrical supply, by the way. If you have Boyer rev the engine to 5000rpm (Boyer)or 2500 rpm (points) at which point the pointer should show 38 degrees before tdc. I put a sticky label cut into a point on the disc at 38 as it is easier to see.

Having written this great load of rubbish I have remembered that you have the three screw cover! If you mark your rotor at 38 degrees btdc you can use that of course.
Dave

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105012
11/13/06 8:49 pm
11/13/06 8:49 pm
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
BritBike Forum member
jimsigs  Offline
BritBike Forum member
J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Hi RF and Davr,

Re the Wassell timing disc I have set up. It is bolted into the Contact Breaker point NOT the Crank as I previously stated. So, maybe my 19 degrees indicated on the disc is the BTDC mark

Regards
Jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105013
11/13/06 11:45 pm
11/13/06 11:45 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,665
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
If you have a 360 degree disc you would have 19 degrees showing on the disc if mounted on the camshaft. My disc is a compressed 720 version (to cope with the camshaft rotating at a different speed), so it actually shows 38 degrees when at the correct position for timing at full advance. If you are not sure of your disc, check it with a protractor.
Dave

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105014
11/14/06 12:05 am
11/14/06 12:05 am
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
J
jimsigs Offline
BritBike Forum member
jimsigs  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 185
Swindon,England
Hi Dave and RF,

Bingo!!! It looks as if I have struck lucky. My 360 degree disc does indeed indicate 19 degrees when I located the crank pin in the 2nd slot.
So it seems as if I have a later flywheel in my 1966 T100SS engine, with two slots and the 2nd one isn't a bogus one after all.

Regards and thanks for all your help to an old fellow of over 70.

Jimsigs

Re: Static Timing 72 T120R--Need Last Step #105015
11/14/06 2:04 am
11/14/06 2:04 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by jimsigs:
Regards and thanks for all your help to an old fellow of over 70.
No problem as long as you report back and tell us about all the young ladies jumping aboard at the traffic lights!

laughing


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
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