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#104958 - 11/28/06 6:00 am Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Gearard Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gearard  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Missouri
Mr. W-
Sorry to come off as an incompetent moron regarding this bike, but the last couple of posts I entered were typed as your messages were being posted, so they may have come across as redundant and thick skulled. I fully appreciate the information you have provided, it is quite helpful.

"With the care of a watchmaker."

A profession closely related to my day job, although from my posts one could doubt the truth of it. But that is why I haven't just started the bike and run it, I want to make sure everything is perfect. Just got burned thinking the inside of a 30 year old piece of rubber was as good as the exterior.

Again, your post have been helpful and appreciated, thank you.


Another day, a few more miles...and a smile! Life is good!
'76 T140V
'10 T100
'58 A10
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#104959 - 11/28/06 6:06 am Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
North Georgia, USA
Gearard -
It was not my intent to belittle you or your efforts, merely to point out that with 1 slip-up you could be buying a new $1000 bottom end or end up as ground meat under some 18-wheeler. This is really serious business.

Sears (Craftsman) makes a "hand impact", I believe.

There is no timing cover gasket from the factory.

Where the oil pipe meets the cases.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#104960 - 11/28/06 1:49 pm Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Gearard Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gearard  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Missouri
Mr. W-
I understand and appreciate your concerns. I don't wnat to be a part of either scenerio you describe either.
Quote:
you should consider taking this machine to a qualified shop.
I do have alittle story to share about this experience. In '76 I took my A10 cases to a local british bike dealer(still in business)to have the timing side bush replaced. After getting the cases returned with the new bush, I inspected the case thinking something didn't look right. Turns out that the case had a new 1/4" hole drilled from the timing side, under the bush, from the oil groove to the sump side just below the bottom of the bush. Almost unnoticealbe with the bush in place, but sure to destroy the oil pressure. Any wrong doing was denied at the shop. Anyhow, had it welded, took it to a crankgrinding machine shop, had a new -.010 bush fitted and the crank ground to fit. Still running strong today. But I still won't have work done that I can't check myself.

With the timing case and the oil seals, not having opened a Triumph case before, is that a dry envirnoment, or would a joint cement(I use Yamabond) be in order?

Thanks again, I'll let you know what I find when I finish


Another day, a few more miles...and a smile! Life is good!
'76 T140V
'10 T100
'58 A10
#104961 - 11/28/06 5:07 pm Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
North Georgia, USA
G Man -
Since the OPRV blows excess oil into that part of the case, I'd have to say that it's fairly wet. You can use a gasket or a sealer. A gasket might be a good thing if the cover has to go on several times before the culprit is discovered.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#104962 - 11/30/06 5:26 pm Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Gearard Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gearard  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Missouri
Mr. W-
maybe you were right about taking the bike to a qualified shop. I've always considered myself as a fairly compatent wrencher, but this bike puzzles me. Add to that, a desire not to damage anything, and I feel stumped at each step. The case screw of difficulty is the one behind the brake lever. After removing the spindle nuts(inner and outer), I tried removing the spindle. No luck. The trunnion lever is supposed to be a taper fit and the manual says to use a suitable drift. But there really doesn't seem there's
much room or a good angle to use that.

While the procedures seem rather basic, the uncertainty of not having ever disassembled these parts before makes it difficult to know what is really required, like amount of acceptable force . I'm tempted to try a slide hammer, but don't want to damage more than I help. It doesn't really seem it should be neccessary to remove the brake lever, but I really would like to have better access to that screw. Then again, I don't know if it's just 30 years of rusting together.

If anyone has any ideas, I would certainly like to know more about what I'm dealing with.
Thanks for any info.


Another day, a few more miles...and a smile! Life is good!
'76 T140V
'10 T100
'58 A10
#104963 - 11/30/06 5:55 pm Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,107
North Georgia, USA
Gear Hard -
I can't remember ever working on the timing cover of a LH shift machine, but it also seems to me that the brake lever could stay where it is. The timing cover shouldn't have to move but about 3/8 inch to come off, so simple access to the screw is the key.

Screws are sometimes stubborn because the steel corrodes to the aluminum case by a natural process of 'galvanic corrosion'. A hand impact driver works not because it twists the screw really hard, but because it drives the screw inward to break the hold of the corrosion AND twists the screw. You can achieve the same effect in 2 separate steps. Take a #3 Posi-Drive bit, setting it in the case screw and giving the free end a right smart smack with a large brass hammer. Then follow up with a twisting motion by placing the bit on a socket extension and then a breaker bar on the end of the extension. Be sure to push toward the bike as you turn.

If the brake lever fails to give proper access, then loosen the bleed screw on the rear caliper. Those brakes need new fluid anyway. bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
#104964 - 12/16/06 6:01 am Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Gearard Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gearard  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Missouri
I wonder if I should start a new topic or just continue this one. It all seems to be related so I'll just keep on with this in case anyone cares to follow the progression. It does remind me of a childhood ditty I recall, something about how the the ankle bone is connected to the shin bone, the shin bone is connected to the knee bone and so on.

RF's idea about releasing the brake bleed screw to drop the pedal for better access to the timing cover screw worked well. Screw out, cover off, oil pump out, everything cleaned and reassembled, oil coming from the OPRV and pressure switch holes while kicking. Fired up second kick, OP light off immediately. Never did find the cause of no oil flow, even with close watch on everything.

What I did find was that there was only pressure on the rear brake with fluid in the master cylinder. Tried to bleed the brakes, at first, a few drops of fluid, then nothing. Full reservoir but no way to get fluid out of bleed nipple. Took supply line off master cylinder and no fluid drained from reservoir. Took reservoir apart and found it full of gunk, holes in mounting block and hose nipple blocked solidly. I will replace o-ring and supply hose, then try bleeding brakes and determine if master cylinder is salvageable.

Had there been no problem with the oil pressure, I may have been tempted to ride more than was appropriate. Even though RF mentioned making sure the bike would stop. It did lock the wheel on the drive way. Glad I bought the bike in the fall so I'm not too tempted to ride it before I check everthing.

Oh, to access the reservoir, I had to remove the air cleaner and cover. That showed that the choke slides are sticking and cables need lube. Throttle slide may be sticking also. And the 'T' connection for the breather lines may be leaking also. PO may have known when it was time to unload something he either didn't have the time or ability to maintain.

And the oil sump is connected to the brake system, the brake system is connected to the carb system...and fixing a stripped drain plug might save your arse.


Another day, a few more miles...and a smile! Life is good!
'76 T140V
'10 T100
'58 A10
#104965 - 12/16/06 2:55 pm Re: T140 oil pump priming?  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,962
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,962
Boston, Massachusetts
For some reason I come to this late.

Both Johnson Motors and The Triumph Corp. supplied timing and gearbox cover gaskets for the 500, 650 and 750 from the mid-sixties. Triumph finally fit them themselves on the very late models. Every gasket maker I know of that supplies the British aftermarket makes them for Triumphs. I can think of 6 gasket houses that make them.

In lieu of a gasket, ThreeBond, aka YamaBond and other private label brands, works quite well. With sealants like ThreeBond there are no worries about a small amount of it coming loose and blocking an oil line.

If using ThreeBond, the gaskets surfaces must be absolutely free from oil. I choose to use alcohol, only because I have burned enough brain cells up with the other, more aromatic and deadly, cleaners ( spray a shot of any brake clean product in my building and i have a head ache for a week - too much exposure to Triumph's TriCor cleaner that was straight trichlorethane).

Although releasing the pressure in the brake system to lower the brake pedal is handy, introducing air into the caliper can cause you to go through a rather lengthy bleeding process. Often the caliper will have to be removed and held above the master cylinder and bled. If I did this I would set up as if I was bleeding the brake.

While we are on the the disc brake, the fluid in the brake system should be flushed annually, especially if you are using Dot 3 fluid. You should follow standard brake bleeding instructions, being sure not to allow any air to back flow into the caliper. Even if you are using a less hydroscopic brake fluid annual, or at least semi-annual, fluid changes are not a bad idea.


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