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oil coolers #102391
09/30/06 4:29 pm
09/30/06 4:29 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 258
half moon bay, ca
D
dan charles tr6r Offline OP
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dan charles tr6r  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 258
half moon bay, ca
hello all. were oil coolers stock or a after Market upgrade?Are they reccomended for certain years? where they for paticular models? thank you. Dan

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Re: oil coolers #102392
09/30/06 5:00 pm
09/30/06 5:00 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
meriden4ever Offline
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meriden4ever  Offline
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Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
The T150 and T160 triples came with oil coolers as standard.

The oil-in-frame twins benefit from them too as the frame's 4 pints is close to if not the actual minimum required for the engine to run safely upon over dsitance without seizing - although I inadvertantly ran my TSX -which has no oil cooler fitted- on less during the summer eek shocked !

Lockhart produced an oil cooler with brackets specifically for British twins and I had one fitted to my Tiger Trail TR7T while the Thunderbird TR65 came with one already fitted. I've found that since fitting them I do not have to top up the oil as frequently whilst commuting or burn off much if any oil over long journeys smile

The TR65's oil coooler was specificed by it's original owner, the British army to facilitate low speed running whilst it accompanied the royal household cavalry exercising their horses in Hyde Park. Meriden did not fit it but the dealer supplying the Britsh army, Reg Allen's, did so along with other requirements such as engine and equipment modifications


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
Re: oil coolers #102393
09/30/06 9:26 pm
09/30/06 9:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Dan -
What Mr. M4E has given above is absolutely true, but IMHO slightly misleading if you are considering buying and fitting a new oil cooler device.

If you want to fit an oil accessory, you'll get 10X the economy out of an oil filter.

After market coolers were marketed primarily for Jap bikes which keep all the oil inside the hot engine cases and Harleys which have an exceedingly hot rear cylinder. You must remember that Triumph having the oil in an oil tank IS an oil cooler. That's the whole reason for dry sump motorcycles.

Adding an oil filter also increases the oil volume and also offers additional cooling surface, just like the finned cooler. So consider that for the same price, would you rather circulate cooler dirty oil or cooler clean oil?

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: oil coolers #102394
09/30/06 9:54 pm
09/30/06 9:54 pm

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



That's the whole reason for dry sump motorcycles.

I disagree.

Re: oil coolers #102395
09/30/06 10:27 pm
09/30/06 10:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,099
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

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Rich B  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,099
Stone Creek OH USA
This is scary Panic, we are going to agree! laugh Oil cooling is not the primary reason for dry sump.

Cooling is but 1 factor in the design of the sump, be it dry sump or wet sump. Some other factors are gound clearnace, fluid conditioning, windage reduction, etc.

Whatley, I agree, adding a return line oil filter is the best single thing you can do for your Brit motorcycle. It makes your engine happy laugh .

IMO, unless you live in some place like AZ, or only operate it in stop and go traffic all day, or your going to turn it into a bagger do the Iron Butt Rally, I don't see any need for an oil cooler. In most climes, they never allow the oil to reach proper operating temperature.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: oil coolers #102396
10/01/06 12:14 am
10/01/06 12:14 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 160
Los Alamos, NM
aviator79 Offline
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aviator79  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 160
Los Alamos, NM
Quote:
...unless you live in some place like AZ...
As someone from AZ, Riding in the summer is like riding in a blast furnace. It's just not that fun. So I'd say even here in AZ, skip the oil cooler, get the filter and get some work done on the bike during the summer months while everyone else in the country is off riding. Then enjoy riding all winter long instead of shoveling the driveway.


'78 T140V
Re: oil coolers #102397
10/01/06 1:58 am
10/01/06 1:58 am
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 692
Winston-Salem N.C.
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D.W.R. Offline
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D.W.R.  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 692
Winston-Salem N.C.
Well it isn't a Triumph, but I've got BOTH! The addition of the oil cooler along with the filter allowed my oil pressure to go up about 5 lbs. across the board. Think I'll keep it!
Don


71 Rocket 3
72 B50 MX
66-71 A 65 Bitsa
96 Trident 900
Re: oil coolers #102398
10/02/06 1:59 am
10/02/06 1:59 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Sacramento, CA
jetpoweredmonkey Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Sacramento, CA
Where does the return line oil filter go, and who makes them?

A few years back, someone came out with a very clean-looking oil filter setup for aircooled VWs that mounted up inside the sump drain plate and used a small motorcycle-style filter. It was neat and tidy but it mounted to the intake side of the oil pickup, so as a result, oil starvation became a problem because the pump was dependent on the ability of the filter to flow oil into the pickup area, which it couldn't do very quickly.

Do the Triumph filter kits mount where oil is pressure-fed through, then? And do they use a spin-on type filter?

Re: oil coolers #102399
10/02/06 9:03 am
10/02/06 9:03 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
A week or two ago I measured some temps on my BSA A65T, oil in frame, equiped with a return line oil filter. Ambient temp was at that moment 25 degrC (77 F).
With the engine on highway working temperature, after a 100 - 110 km/h (appr 80 mph) ride, the return oil temp was 52 degrC (125 F) measured in the oil flow with filler cap open (engine running idle, immediatly after stop).
I could not measure the oil feed temp (oil to engine) so I do not know the cooling effect of filter and tank, but a return of 52 degrC (125 F) would for me be no reason to install a cooler.

PS: for the non Americans among us; what is AZ?


Ger B

Re: oil coolers #102400
10/02/06 9:24 am
10/02/06 9:24 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,497
Scotland
kommando Offline
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kommando  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,497
Scotland
Arizona, eg Hot & Dry

Re: oil coolers #102401
10/02/06 9:41 am
10/02/06 9:41 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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NL
Thanks, Kommando. I understand it's warmer there than where you live and where I live.

For Jet-P-M.
The return line oil fiter is mounted in the oil return line which comes from the return pump and which feeds oil back into the oil tank.
What you say about the aircooled VW's, with a filter in the suction line, is true. It's dangerous. You could check the thread started some days ago, called: Commando oil filter plumbing question.

I hope this link takes you there.
oil filter plumbing


Here is my BSA with a return line oil filter on the side. Most people mount them underneath the gearbox. But I happen to like it here and plumbing is the same. It's a screw on / off filter cartridge, sold by a huge number of suppliers. It's also known as a Norton oil filter.
picture


Ger B

Re: oil coolers #102402
10/02/06 4:26 pm
10/02/06 4:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,265
North Georgia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by panic:
That's the whole reason for dry sump motorcycles.

I disagree.
In retrospect, I'd have to agree with Rich B and Panic... and promise to be more careful with my adjectives in the future.

I should have said, "That's one of the many bonuses of the dry sump motorcycle design."

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: oil coolers #102403
10/02/06 4:48 pm
10/02/06 4:48 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
It must have been your:
-overdose of german beer, plus
-jet leg, plus
-time difference in respect to what you mentioned about some privat bussiness.
laughing


Ger B

Re: oil coolers #102404
10/03/06 3:14 pm
10/03/06 3:14 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
For those who are interested:
I measured again this afternoon. I like it I think, maybe a sickness left over from my marine engineers days (previous life).
Oil temp back to tank after return line filter 52 degrC (125 F).
Oil to engine (after oil in frame oil tank) 42 dgrC (110 F). I was surpised that the difference was that much. I measured both temps riding, with a thin wire thermocouple inside the oil flow.
Ofcourse this is at easy going road conditions. Racing would be a complete other story. But with these figures I would not need a cooler.


Ger B

Re: oil coolers #102405
10/03/06 4:22 pm
10/03/06 4:22 pm
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 731
Melbourne Fl
T
Terry_tr6 Offline
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Terry_tr6  Offline
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T

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 731
Melbourne Fl
for many years i ran a home-made cooler rig that i made for a couple bux down here in florida on (and also a spin on oil filter) on my '71 650tr6c. once upon a time i believe it was ford that had a little oil cooler rig on their power steering pumps. I got a pair basically for free from a junk yard and braised them to a pair of front exhaust pipe brackets, the ones that connect to the front case bolt. looped the oil from the scavage pump side(didn't want real oil pressure on the lines), into one cooler across to the second one and them through the oil filter. I had a full top and bottom end rebuild at 90K miles because i had the money, a british factory mechanic available, and the bike had 90K miles on it, not because it was dying. In reality i credit the oil filter more for that mileage than the coolers, but you could hold a finger on the input side and the return side and feel a temperature difference.

Re: oil coolers #102406
10/04/06 2:01 am
10/04/06 2:01 am
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Sacramento, CA
jetpoweredmonkey Offline
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jetpoweredmonkey  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Sacramento, CA
Looking up oil filters, I came across this:

http://www.britishonly.com/estore/newprod/oilfilter.asp

Uncheap, but seems a good design and preserves the bike's appearance. I can imagine that it would be a big fat mess to change the filter. I'd be tempted to replace the filter every other oil change. Since there is no drain plug, maybe the oil could be drained by pulling off the return line to the tank.

Re: oil coolers #102407
10/04/06 2:15 am
10/04/06 2:15 am
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia
BrianFromOz Offline
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BrianFromOz  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 706
NSW Australia


"What are you rebelling against?
What have you got?"

77 T140V

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Re: oil coolers #102408
10/04/06 8:44 am
10/04/06 8:44 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Posts: 5,963
NL
That is what I use, though I do not use the clamp. filter


Ger B

Re: oil coolers #102409
10/04/06 12:41 pm
10/04/06 12:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 730
Dordogne, SW France
johnnyrvf Offline
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johnnyrvf  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 730
Dordogne, SW France
Hi just a thought, I've got a 930 T160 motor in a T140 frame, to increase the oil capacity a finned sump has been fabricated to bolt on to the bottom of the frame, it increases the capacity by close to a litre and acts as a cooler too, the O.I.F. is very effective at cooling oil because the std. triple cooler hs been discarded but even on days of +35 degrees the oil only gets to a nice working temperature.Tell me how to post a photo and I'll oblige. Johnny. bigt


What d'ya mean it won't rev to 10?
1965 BSA A65D Lightning Rocket
1976 K*w*s*ki Z900.
1978 Triumph Bonn3ville (930 T160 Powered T140)
1988 H*nd* RC30
1990 Moto Guzzi California 3
1993 Y*m*h* TDM 850
Re: oil coolers #102410
10/04/06 1:00 pm
10/04/06 1:00 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
P
phantom309 Offline
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phantom309  Offline
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P

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,346
spfld vt
Hard to beat the little map filter that uses the t-150 filter and it has a nice clamp ,not a muffler clamp. ;)and for alot less money.


Tim Joyce
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Works shocks
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Re: oil coolers #102411
10/04/06 1:29 pm
10/04/06 1:29 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
meriden4ever Offline
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meriden4ever  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,610
London United Kingdom
Quote:
Originally posted by johnnyrvf:
Hi just a thought, I've got a 930 T160 motor in a T140 frame
Interesting that as the Meriden Co-Op experimented with the same idea and there's a picture in Classic Bike of one to the fore in the Meriden experimental shop


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
Re: oil coolers #102412
10/04/06 5:44 pm
10/04/06 5:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 730
Dordogne, SW France
johnnyrvf Offline
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johnnyrvf  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 730
Dordogne, SW France
Hi m4e, the frame and suspension require modification and reinforcing to work because the engine is 40 lbs heavier and puts a lot more weight further forward and higher up, without these the bike shimmies like an early Z1. Johnny. :rolleyes:


What d'ya mean it won't rev to 10?
1965 BSA A65D Lightning Rocket
1976 K*w*s*ki Z900.
1978 Triumph Bonn3ville (930 T160 Powered T140)
1988 H*nd* RC30
1990 Moto Guzzi California 3
1993 Y*m*h* TDM 850
Re: oil coolers #102413
10/05/06 3:46 am
10/05/06 3:46 am
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 49
Massachusetts
DaveH Offline
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DaveH  Offline
BritBike Forum

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 49
Massachusetts
Dan- this is your thread, speak up. What s your take on the info given so far? My two cents is this: you want to circulate CLEAN WARM oil. It has to be hot enough to evaporate all the condensation and other nasties that form in the oil. Unless you race the bikea filter is all you need, but you really need it.
Dave H

Re: oil coolers #102414
10/05/06 5:28 am
10/05/06 5:28 am
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Ditto Johnny H re cold oil, Ger has access to a thermocouple to quantify his argument but I have ridden a well tuned [pre OIF] Triumph for approx 65 miles at 60-65 MPH in 38 deg C ambient and been able to hold the palm of my hand flat against the oil tank immediately I stopped.

Brit twins run hot when raced or when something is wrong.

Brianfromoz, you can bush that filter mount up to 3/4" AF and get good quality filters at much less cost than the Mexican Champion H101 and similar.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: oil coolers #102415
10/05/06 8:46 am
10/05/06 8:46 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
The thermocouple goodies and my digital thermometer are relics (though modern) from a refrigeration teaching carreer.
In my marine engineers days (previous life) I learned that anything you can touch and hold the palm of your hand on longer than 10 seconds, is cooler than 40 / 45 degrC. The fingertips are more sensitive. Max 40 degrC.
Anything cooler than 40 / 45 degrC does not need cooling.
Offcourse some of the oil will be much warmer, like the oil that does not go from crankcase to tank, but from crankcase to valve gear, and than drops down; or the oil which lubricated the piston wrist pin, than cools the piston.
I have no idea how warm, and I have no idea how to measure.
What Dave says is true, and speaks against excessive cooling: condensed moistures must evaporate.


Ger B

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