Untitled Document

Home, Sponsors
Newsletter, Regalia
Calendar, Bike Project
BritBike Museum
Spiders Cartoons

"OLD" BritBike Forum

DVD- Manuals & Parts books
BritBike Stickers & Decals

Upgrade your membership-
one year or for life*

BritBike Forum

Sponsors campaign ads..
BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor
Shout Box

BritBike.com Decals & Stickers (Free shipping)
BritBike.com decals & stickers
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Who's Online
78 registered (koan58, bsalloyd, TT Rider, Magnetoman, Irish Swede, chuckmn, mikelucas, shel, norton bob, JBMorris, LorenzoI, Roger Gulledge, brettsyoung, kommando, Rick, oggy, Kent Shaun, paulberry, wellwood68, Lennart, Steve Erickson, Tim Inks, Ger, Kerry W, Ob1quixote, rocketgoldie, GrandPaul, gunner, kevin large, Mark Z, KennethC., T140V-Rich, paul67, Alex, grumpy47, skidog, Alan_nc, JER.Hill, triton thrasher, quinten, Mark Parker, raf940, tbird649, Randy Pigford, J. Charles Smith, JakeH, roadrocket, dave jones, AG Bill, KC in S.B., OldBalz, Bodie, Hillbilly bike, brokesinceacquir, Rich B, L.A.B., desco, jim.c, robcurrie, royaloilfield, Brian L, MikeG, Elijah, chew652, Richrd, Graham Ham, Bill Bassett, Kev., Dick Harris, konon, mxman1, charlie akey, Petvet, AngloBike, Lekkie, Boomer, limeyrider, Allan Gill), 573 Guests and 121 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyDenmark, Jessica William, Chas Hughes, Muttley, taylorlowe
7767 Registered Users
Forum Stats
7768 Members
32 Forums
51688 Topics
478538 Posts

Max Online: 1804 @ 03/01/11 6:54 pm
Top Posters
RF Whatley 9998
John Healy 8418
Lannis 8170
Alex 7263
ricochetrider 7109
JubeePrince 5995
Stuart 5844
kommando 5441
Jon W. Whitley 4684
Kent Shaun 4632
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#412489 - 01/09/12 11:22 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: meriden4ever]
Shane in Oz Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 626
Loc: Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted By: meriden4ever

I don't know about the number of BSA Furys. There are bound to be a few of those around. Tony Page's Fury is at the London M/cycle Museum presently whilst I think I recall seeing one at Vale Onslow in Sparkbrook, B'ham some time ago. No doubt there are other Furys but I'm concerned here with the number of Bandits.


Fair enough, the French bike is a BSA Fury. I'm not sure about Norman Hyde's daughter's bike. They're rare enough that I treat them as the same model.

There was an article on the Melbourne bike in Old Bike Australasia # 12 (March / April 2009)
Back issues are still available from the publisher. I can send you a copy if you PM me your contact details.

Top
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Upgrade your BritBike Forum membership for one year or for Life*
#412508 - 01/09/12 2:36 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: Shane in Oz]
Skeet Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Orleans Massachusetts
Here's some shots of an in depth review from Bob Braverman 1971 Cycle Guide. He predicted the bike would become a winner. Sorry a few are blurred.









_________________________
Skeet Enjoy life....it has an expiration date..
1964 Hornet
1970 TR6R
1971 Norton
1972 XLH

Top
#412805 - 01/10/12 11:03 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 2586
Loc: ca, us
The hundreds of hours of testing was because it was breaking all the time.
Notice the modern Triumph 21 gearbox reversed for the left hand shift and the output sprocket behind the clutch for easy access. The bold new cam chain pulls down on the guide ramp rather than straight. That should make it last.
There was no room for paint between the front downtubes and exhaust pipes.

Top
#412817 - 01/11/12 12:06 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
I was reading an interview with Doug Hele and the 'deal-breaker' was the contact-breaker points failure. Otherwise, as we all know, BSA-Triumph was ready to go ahead ...A 1984 roadtest was spolit by the contact breakers falling apart ! I wonder whether electronic ignition would have been a cure ?
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#412824 - 01/11/12 12:41 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: DMadigan]
bon Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 362
Loc:
Originally Posted By: DMadigan
The hundreds of hours of testing was because it was breaking all the time.
Notice the modern Triumph 21 gearbox reversed for the left hand shift and the output sprocket behind the clutch for easy access. The bold new cam chain pulls down on the guide ramp rather than straight. That should make it last.
There was no room for paint between the front downtubes and exhaust pipes.


And don't forget those new ultra modern drum brakes as also fitted to the 650's and found to be wanting.

edward turner said in an interview he didn't see the need for an ordinary motorcyclist to want a 750 triple or 1000 four to commute to work or tour on the weekends , but thats exactly what they wanted and the customer is always correct , triumph should have followed the japanese and forgot about anything under 500cc and twins and developed the triple and went with the quadrant (thats a rare prototype worth having , unlike a warmed over 3ta/t90 bandit/fury)

Top
#412828 - 01/11/12 1:12 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: bon]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: bon
Originally Posted By: DMadigan
The hundreds of hours of testing was because it was breaking all the time.
Notice the modern Triumph 21 gearbox reversed for the left hand shift and the output sprocket behind the clutch for easy access. The bold new cam chain pulls down on the guide ramp rather than straight. That should make it last.
There was no room for paint between the front downtubes and exhaust pipes.


And don't forget those new ultra modern drum brakes as also fitted to the 650's and found to be wanting.

edward turner said in an interview he didn't see the need for an ordinary motorcyclist to want a 750 triple or 1000 four to commute to work or tour on the weekends , but thats exactly what they wanted and the customer is always correct , triumph should have followed the japanese and forgot about anything under 500cc and twins and developed the triple and went with the quadrant (thats a rare prototype worth having , unlike a warmed over 3ta/t90 bandit/fury)


I've never read of Turner saying such a thing (a reference would be appreciated). In fact, he was in favour of concentrating upon manufacture of large sporting motorcycles as stated in his report following his Japan visit.
BSA-Triumph wanted a slice of the 350cc market that Honda were milking to great effect in USA. The 350cc class was the biggest market in USA, made so by Honda. Triumph never really properly marketed Turner's 3TA and T90 range stateside instead concentrating on the 500cc and 650cc twins. The trouble with their Bandit-Fury range was that it was too expensive compared to the cheap Honda twins. Their known reliability problems were not going to help justify the price difference and no doubt damage 'trade-ups' to the 500cc and 650cc twins. It seemed better to pull the plug.
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#412830 - 01/11/12 1:26 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: meriden4ever]
JBMorris Online   content
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 1294
Loc: Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Originally Posted By: m4e
I was reading an interview with Doug Hele and the 'deal-breaker' was the contact-breaker points failure

Somewhere i read about solving race tridents c/b points problems using aircraft type Bendix points?

Some have speculated that Hopalongwood wanted it to fail?
_________________________
1978 Bonneville T140V PX*****

Top
#412837 - 01/11/12 2:28 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: JBMorris]
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 5844
Hi,

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
Otherwise, as we all know, BSA-Triumph was ready to go ahead ...

This is tongue-in-cheek? Otherwise, no; all the engines in existence are pre-production, in that bits from one engine will rarely fit another. That, I believe, was the reason the plug was pulled; cycle parts being built, no engine to go in 'em. frown

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
A 1984 roadtest was spolit by the contact breakers falling apart ! I wonder whether electronic ignition would have been a cure ?

Why would the points be a problem? All the other twin models were using the Lucas 6CA points plate, that wasn't known for "falling apart"? Even then, Rita e.i. was about; only cost would've prevented its use.

Originally Posted By: bon
don't forget those new ultra modern drum brakes as also fitted to the 650's and found to be wanting.

Nah, they're all right on lighter bikes - on a 250, they're almost too much sometimes. shocked

Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
Some have speculated that Hopalongwood wanted it to fail?

To what end? Hopwood was in charge of the largest division of BSA and had been for several years. He'd nagged for ages to have Bandit/Fury development removed from ET's control and brought properly in-house. He'd have known that pulling the plug would not only cost BSA a lot of money in write-offs but severely compromise their medium-term marketing strategy.

Hth.

Regards,

Top
#412846 - 01/11/12 2:52 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
bon Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 362
Loc:
Turner did say the larger bikes weren't neccessary , i'll try to find a quote , to be honest i think he had a point , i have friends who ride one litre, 170 mph + superbikes to work and back through traffic , complete overkill for commuting but they still do it ,who could have foreseen that ? After all car drivers don't go to work in formula one racing cars.

Also turner worked in an era when people were deeply conservative in the type of machines they bought, anything new fangled was frowned upon , and money wasn't to be spent likely, so turner probablily only seen twins as a viable product.

Anyway back to the bandit/fury , according to roy bacon in his book "the triumph buyers guide" the machine , even after a lot of rework was still dogged with problems, the frame and forks were too light to cope with the speed of the bike, and subsequently handling was bad , the front brake tended to seize and the engine broke its crankshaft with ease. This all lead to a major revamp as the basic design was shoddy but never made it into production.

Sadly if the resources used in this fiasco had been used on the likes of the trident ,triumph might have lasted longer and survived The japanese onslaught.

Top
#412875 - 01/11/12 6:27 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 2586
Loc: ca, us
In Hopwood's book he said that in his discussion of the triple with Turner, Turner told Hopwood he was "potty" for suggesting a three cylinder engine. Turner was near retirement and was not interested in anything larger than 650cc.
With or without the Fury/Bandit would not have changed BSA/Triumph's demise. They were too entrenched in building old bikes for a modern market.

Top
#412882 - 01/11/12 8:23 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: DMadigan]
Shane in Oz Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 626
Loc: Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted By: DMadigan
With or without the Fury/Bandit would not have changed BSA/Triumph's demise. They were too entrenched in building old bikes for a modern market.


I think it went deeper than that, Dave.

It looks to me like the BSA Group was trying to diversify out of motorbikes in the late 1950s and early 1960s, then suddenly realised that there was still a lot of profit to be had and overspent on R&D for new market segments, and automation.

... but still used the same old labour intensive low volume designs and production methods for the bread and butter models.

Top
#412883 - 01/11/12 8:51 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: Shane in Oz]
Pre Unit Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 208
Loc: terra Australis
Id rate 90 % of the posts as Tripe / Dirty Dishwater & deranged
immaginings .

Road test ( post communist take over of british industry )
of melbourne one is near estatic .

was one at M.o.T.a.T. and Bill whites , Auckland , for years .

Bloke in englands said to have truckloads of parts .

BANKS / FINACIEERS would be sole reason for pulling the plug .

P.M. me if you want copies of tests . As usuall have is suposition & conjecture pressented as fact in England .

A load of codswallop . Two Wheels magazine had a entusiast borrow the Melbourne one owned by frazers , and rode it .
Got a bit stary eyed . But IS a Road Test as well as delusions
of what might have been .

Most of the Jap screamers then couldnt crak 80 ( four strokes )

OBVIOUSLY it has the most sabstantial & best designed Chassis
of anything in that displacement availabe . Discounting the Italians. Perhaps the duc 450 Would be a sane comparison .

Unsuitable for honda Boys , ALMOST .

Top
#412884 - 01/11/12 9:20 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: Stuart]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Stuart
Hi,

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
Otherwise, as we all know, BSA-Triumph was ready to go ahead ...

This is tongue-in-cheek? Otherwise, no; all the engines in existence are pre-production, in that bits from one engine will rarely fit another. That, I believe, was the reason the plug was pulled; cycle parts being built, no engine to go in 'em. frown

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
A 1984 roadtest was spolit by the contact breakers falling apart ! I wonder whether electronic ignition would have been a cure ?

Why would the points be a problem? All the other twin models were using the Lucas 6CA points plate, that wasn't known for "falling apart"? Even then, Rita e.i. was about; only cost would've prevented its use.

Originally Posted By: bon
don't forget those new ultra modern drum brakes as also fitted to the 650's and found to be wanting.

Nah, they're all right on lighter bikes - on a 250, they're almost too much sometimes. shocked

Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
Some have speculated that Hopalongwood wanted it to fail?

To what end? Hopwood was in charge of the largest division of BSA and had been for several years. He'd nagged for ages to have Bandit/Fury development removed from ET's control and brought properly in-house. He'd have known that pulling the plug would not only cost BSA a lot of money in write-offs but severely compromise their medium-term marketing strategy.

Hth.

Regards,


The concern as to the constant contact breaker failure as a reason for serious design doubts came from Doug Hele talking about why the Bandit was pulled. Crankshaft failure wasn't a design problem. The same interview revealed that after 12 pre-production prototypes, he fully expected the button marked 'GO' to be pressed but the serious design doubts meant BSA-Triumph couldn't justify the costs of the dies for cylinder heads when they were in serious financial trouble- the risk of a commerical failure wasn't thought worth the cost.
A contemporary US roadtest praised the front brake but damned th rear one but overall the conclusion was very positive indeed. The 1984 roadtest concerned a Bandit whose points had already been replaced , the then-owner (Chris Williams) having to source these with great difficulty from Lucas. The roadtest resulted in the contact breaker falling apart and having to be replaced by those 'from an early Mini' to enable continuance with the roadtest ! Whatever may have been the merits of the 6CA, the Bandit's contact breakers, to Hele's knowledge and the 1984 roadtester's dicovery, didn't seem to share them !! Will review what Hopwood had to say about the Banidt-Fury debacle: I agree that I can't see why he'd want what was essentially his design executed by Hele, to fail.
HTH
Happy New Year , Stuart !
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#412888 - 01/11/12 10:00 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: Pre Unit]
Shane in Oz Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 626
Loc: Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted By: Pre Unit
Two Wheels magazine had a entusiast borrow the Melbourne one owned by frazers , and rode it .
Got a bit stary eyed . But IS a Road Test as well as delusions
of what might have been .


Doug Fraser's bike (btw, he's not related to the Ducati / Hardley distributor) isn't quite standard. He said at the BSA International rally in Victoria a few years back that he'd done a bit of work on it to improve reliability.

For those who don't know, Doug is a rather handy engineer who's also built an ohc top end for his Gold Star racer and knocked up a couple of V twins, one based on Empire Star top ends and the other based on B33s.

Top
#412934 - 01/11/12 4:06 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: meriden4ever]
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 5844
Hi,

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
Happy New Year , Stuart !

bigt Happy New Year to you too. grin

Regards,

Top
#413047 - 01/12/12 5:00 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
DavidP Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 3600
Loc: Gnashville
Whatever the merits, or demerits, of the Bandit/Fury, I LIKE that petrol tank! Looks to be a smoother version of the tank on my '71 A65. Does anyone make this tank for OIF?

Other observations on comments:
I have owned a Daytona with a 650 drum front end. That brake was excellent on the lighter bike. I can see where it would work very well on this one.
I have also used a 'superbike' for commuting. Mind you, this was a T150v in Atlanta, mostly interstate (motorway.) However, around town I would much rather have something more flexible and less thirsty like a B50 or, OMG, an SR500. Or, a Bandit.
_________________________
A good friend will bail you out of jail.
A great friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

71 A65L

Top
#413523 - 01/15/12 10:23 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
bon Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 362
Loc:
I was going through my magazines (i have thousands) and there is a feature on a pair of restored triumph bandits in the october 2008 copy of "the classic motorcycle" ,one was the one that was in charlies of bristol and was sold to the national motorcycle museum by reg hall.
I could scan and post the article if someone could tell me how to post it.

Top
#413609 - 01/16/12 4:36 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: bon]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: bon
I was going through my magazines (i have thousands) and there is a feature on a pair of restored triumph bandits in the october 2008 copy of "the classic motorcycle" ,one was the one that was in charlies of bristol and was sold to the national motorcycle museum by reg hall.
I could scan and post the article if someone could tell me how to post it.


I'd love to see that article. Photobucket and flickr are the places to go or just send an email with the scans as attachements
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#413668 - 01/16/12 11:08 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
bon Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 362
Loc:
I'll attempt it tomorrow meriden4ever , i am not very computer savvy though.

Top
#430754 - 04/20/12 3:42 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: bon]
furymalc Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 02/19/12
Posts: 127
Loc: northern B.C.Canada
Bon did you manage to scan the article as I would like to see it also.
I am trying to build one of these bikes [Fury] and any extra information is great.
Heres What I have so far.
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=347355&gonew=1#UNREAD
Cheers Malc

Top
#430841 - 04/21/12 1:28 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
TJD Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 133
Loc: Devonport Tasmania
There is an artical on the Doug Fraser bike in "Old Bike Australasia" issue 12 March/April 2009 page 56.

Top
#430859 - 04/21/12 6:16 am Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
I wish you the best of luck: I'm trying to get my head around someone trying to build perhaps the rarest and most unusual of British designs.
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#431205 - 04/22/12 11:31 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
Contact Reg Allen's for a contact for Bandit-Fury parts. One of Bill Crosby's former racers worked at Small Heath testing the DOHC 350s. He was at the London Motorcycle Museum on Sunday 22nd April and when I mentioned your predicament, he aksed what you needed and that he could help. Best of luck. Keep us informed !
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
#431269 - 04/23/12 12:50 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: tiger_cub]
furymalc Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 02/19/12
Posts: 127
Loc: northern B.C.Canada
Thanks M4E.
Could you PM me please with the persons name?,as it might make contacting him easier.
Also did Bon send you the article he mentioned?,as I wouldn't mind seeing that myself.
In a earlier post Rich B mentioned that he had pictures of the Fury at Brimfield, would it be possible to post them ?.
Lastly does anyone have any video footage of the ex Norman Hyde Bandit,when it was aired on a track day.
Funny thing is here I am trying to build one of these bikes and have never heard one running.
Cheers Malc

Top
#431359 - 04/23/12 10:55 pm Re: Triumph Bandit [Re: furymalc]
meriden4ever Offline
BritBike Forum member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 2499
Loc: London United Kingdom
done- good luck !
_________________________
1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  John Healy 

Untitled Document

Home, Sponsors
Newsletter, Regalia
Calendar, Bike Project
BritBike Museum
Spiders Cartoons

"OLD" BritBike Forum

DVD- Manuals & Parts books
BritBike Stickers & Decals

Upgrade your membership-
one year or for life*

BritBike Forum