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#714343 - 11/09/17 2:55 am Wiring questions  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 187
Wally Balden Offline
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Wally Balden  Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Regarding my 1970 TR6C. First, I have to admit I am having a tough time understanding and focusing in my senior years. What seems simple is not so simple anymore. So I am asking for help on what may be simple things.

I am struggling with the wiring on the front end of the bike. Particularly the ignition switch, headlamp, lighting switch and kill switch.

I have numerous wiring diagrams which I have looked at until I am cross-eyed and have read many posts but still can't figure some things out.

What purpose does the toggle switch serve on the top of the headlamp? I am assuming this is the dipper switch - correct? Does it have the blue/white and blue/red from the headlamp attached to it - and then a singe wire to the lighting switch? It has 5 prongs - two are low and then 2 on one side, 1 on the other. It shows a blue wire from dipper switch to the lighting switch but I don't have a blue wire anywhere on my harness. Does this come from the aftermarket light/horn switch?

I bought an aftermarket light/horn switch and it has four wires coming out of it - white, yellow, green, black. I am thinking these attach to speedometer light, pilot light, headlamp and tail lamp - and ignition? Do I need to take it apart to see what each color wire goes to?

Where are contact breakers connected? I have a kill switch but saw in another thread that the white and blue/white wire connect to them and I have them on my harness.

Any help or direction is greatly appreciated.

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#714345 - 11/09/17 6:24 am Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Wally,

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
1970 TR6C.
What purpose does the toggle switch serve on the top of the headlamp? I am assuming this is the dipper switch - correct?

Uh-uh; on a '70, the dipper switch is on the left 'bar, combined with the horn button. The '70 parts book isn't clear, as it still shows the twist dipper switch in the headlamp shell fitted in previous years but, when you go to the parts list on the TR6C headlamp page, the twist switch isn't listed.

The toggle switch is the "Lighting Switch", it turns the lights on and off. Take it out of the headlamp shell and you should see "35710" or "31788" either stamped on the chromed part or moulded into the plastic casing. Also moulded into the casing should be the numbers "1" to "8" beside either each "prong" or a hole where a "prong" could be rivetted. Note these numbers are hard to see, so you might need your 'close-up glasses' and a strong light. smile

The switch is supplied by a Brown/White wire from the ignition key switch attached to "prong" #4. The pilot lamp (Red/Black wire) is supplied from prong #6, the tail lamp and speedo. bulb (Brown/Green wires) are supplied from prong #7 and the dipper switch (Blue wire originally) from prong #8.

If you have the correct toggle Lighting Switch and you wire it as above and in the wiring diagram, it has the handy function that it turns off the pilot lamp when the headlamp's on and vice versa. Handy if you want a bright pilot bulb for daytime riding but don't want it powered when you need the headlamp. bigt

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
Does it have the blue/white and blue/red from the headlamp attached to it

The "dipper switch" does have these wires attached to it - Blue/Red is the dip (low) beam, Blue/White is the main (high) beam - but, as I say, the dipper switch is the lever on the combined "light/horn switch" screwed to the left 'bar.

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
I bought an aftermarket light/horn switch and it has four wires coming out of it - white, yellow, green, black. I am thinking these attach to speedometer light, pilot light, headlamp and tail lamp - and ignition? Do I need to take it apart to see what each color wire goes to?

Uh-uh; as I say, the lever's the dipper switch; regrettably, the wires on aftermarket switches are all the wrong colours, mad they don't match any of the colours in the wiring diagram so 'fraid, if you don't take the switch apart to find out which wires are which functions, you'll at least need an Ohm- or multi-meter.

As the switch has only four wires, note - as the dipper lever has three wires (supply from prong #8 on the toggle switch, Blue/Red and Blue/White wires to the headlamp bulb) - the horn has only one, Brown/Black from the horn itself. As the dipper/horn switch is (should be) spaced off the handlebar with a thick rubber pad, but the button completes the horn circuit by metal-to-metal contact when you press it, you might run into problems getting the horn to actually work. When you have all the electrics connected but the horn doesn't work, I can advise a mod. to the handlebar switch.

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
Where are contact breakers connected? I have a kill switch but saw in another thread that the white and blue/white wire connect to them and I have them on my harness.

Contact breakers are a Black/White wire and a Black/Yellow wire; as any wiring diagram should show, they connect one to each ignition coil - the "+" terminal if the coils are so marked.

Kill switch:-

. The other thread said White/Blue, not "blue/white". The order of colours is significant - White/Blue is mainly White insulation with one or two thin Blue tracer lines, "blue/white" is mainly Blue insulation with one or two thin White tracer lines (Blue/White connects handlebar dipper switch to headlamp main (high) beam and the Green idiot lamp in the headlamp shell).

. White/Blue is energised when the ignition switch is in the 'on' position; note that, depending how original your bike's wiring harness is, this might be a plain White wire. It supplies the White wire(s) to the ignition coils ("-" terminals) and things like the brake-lamp switches on the cable (front) and lever (rear).

Hth.

Regards,

#714377 - 11/09/17 2:09 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Wally Balden Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Thank you for all of this information. Let me absorb it and get back to you with any questions.

#714378 - 11/09/17 2:16 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Wally Balden Offline
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St. Louis, MO
I took out the lighting switch and it is numbered 1-8. This will be my start.

#714384 - 11/09/17 3:28 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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desco Online content
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Wiring is confusing enough but throw in mis-matched wire colors and you can create a real nightmare. Save yourself some grief and use the correct switches and sockets.

http://www.britishwiring.com/PVC-Wires-s/67.htm

These guys can supply the right wires.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
#714386 - 11/09/17 4:17 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Wally Balden Offline
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Just to make sure I understand.

I don't have a red/black wire to my pilot lamp so I will need to create a connection between the pilot lamp and prong #6
I need to figure out which wires from the dipper switch connect to blue/red, blue white (from headlamp) and horn (brown/black)

Here is where I am confused:
I have two leads from the headlamp (blue/white and blue/red). I have a connection to a wire (wires?) from the dipper switch to #8. Are both of the headlamp wires connected so they become "blue"which then goes to the lighting switch 8? My diagram shows both blue/white and blue/red going to dipper switch and then "blue" coming out of that to connect to #8.

Contact breakers - on my wiring harness there are two leads off of the black/white and black yellow contact breakers. One goes to coil. The other is a female connector - is this where i make the connection to the kill switch?

#714393 - 11/09/17 4:58 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Wally Balden Offline
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Desco - thanks for the tip. I just bought the correct color dipper switch wiring.

#714403 - 11/09/17 6:25 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Wally,

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
I have two leads from the headlamp (blue/white and blue/red). I have a connection to a wire (wires?) from the dipper switch to #8. Are both of the headlamp wires connected so they become "blue"which then goes to the lighting switch 8? My diagram shows both blue/white and blue/red going to dipper switch and then "blue" coming out of that to connect to #8.

You might find it easier to think of it how the electrics actually work:-

. battery -ve supplies the ignition switch (Brown/Blue wire to Brown/White wire);

. ignition switch supplies the toggle Lighting Switch prong #4 (a different Brown/White wire facepalm);

. when the Lighting Switch is in 'headlamp' position (lever to the right), it supplies prong #8;

. prong #8 supplies the handlebar dipper switch (Blue wire);

. depending on the dipper switch's lever position, it supplies either headlamp low beam (Blue/Red) or high beam (Blue/White);

. from the headlamp, electricity returns to battery +ve (Red wires).

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
Contact breakers - on my wiring harness there are two leads off of the black/white and black yellow contact breakers. One goes to coil. The other is a female connector - is this where i make the connection to the kill switch?

No.

If you read my previous post again, note it doesn't say anywhere to connect the points to the kill switch. That's because you don't connect the points to the kill switch. smile

Are you thinking of your other TR6C, with Energy Transfer ignition? A '70 C has normal DC ignition, with battery and/or capacitor, supplied by a standard alternator through a standard rectifier regulated by a standard Zener diode.

The Black/White and Black/Yellow leads from the ignition coils to the "female connector[s]" connect to the two condensers:-

. If you look at the fuel tank front mounting strip on the frame, inboard of the big holes for the tank mounting studs and rubbers are two small holes.

. Parts book - if you look at pages 78/79 ("Ignition Coils, Horn, Rectifier and Zener diode"), parts #16 to #23 are the condensers (part #17) and mounting parts to mount everything to the aforementioned two small holes in the tank mounting strip. bigt

. The "prong" on one end of each capacitor protrude through the Cover (part #18); you attach the "female connector" on the end of the Black/White and Black/Yellow wires from the coils to the condensers' prongs. One condenser for each set of points.

. From the harness around the condensers' mounting, there should also be a Red wire with a small ring terminal that should fit under one of the #20 or #21 bolts/screws; the Red wire provides an electrical return from the condensers to battery +ve.

Otoh, the kill switch is in the ignition coils' supply from battery -ve through the ignition switch; i.e. when you turn off the ignition switch, the coils are disconnected from battery -ve and the engine stops; when you press the kill switch button (and hold it pressed), the coils are disconnected from the battery and the engine stops. Nothing to do with the points.

Hth.

Regards,

#714409 - 11/09/17 7:24 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Wally Balden Offline
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I am trying to figure out how the electric works and that is where I usually get stuck. I have about a 10 minute attention span now so working with that situation. I know I need to take it a step at a time and will take what you sent and figure it out - hopefully. Thanks for all of the detail and taking the time to respond.

Wally

#714414 - 11/09/17 8:37 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Wally,

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
I am trying to figure out how the electric works and that is where I usually get stuck. I have about a 10 minute attention span

smile No worries. Take the steps I listed in the first part of my previous post and just trace the lines in the wiring diagram - that's pretty-much what I do when I'm working on a make of bike I'm not familiar with.

Another trick I've known people use is: photocopy the wiring diagram, blow it up bigger (if you don't know anyone with an A3 printer, local print shop?), draw the wire colours over the black lines with felt-tips or whatever, hang it on your garage/workshop wall beside the bike.

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
I know I need to take it a step at a time and will take what you sent and figure it out

Britbike wiring, DC electrics generally are pretty simple. Keep re-reading what's here already but any more questions, ask away.

Hth.

Regards,

#714433 - 11/10/17 12:20 am Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Roadwarrior Offline
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The bike is positive ground. Not sure if that was mentioned.


Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



#714535 - 11/10/17 8:49 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Roadwarrior]  
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Originally Posted by Roadwarrior
The bike is positive ground.

Irrelevant to the questions Wally's asked.

Regards,

#714546 - 11/10/17 9:24 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted by Stuart


Another trick I've known people use is: photocopy the wiring diagram, blow it up bigger (if you don't know anyone with an A3 printer, local print shop?), draw the wire colours over the black lines with felt-tips or whatever, hang it on your garage/workshop wall beside the bike.



This is a good tip, I've done this myself and found it really helps to see what's meant to go where!.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
#714549 - 11/10/17 9:26 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Home alone this weekend so just me and the TR6C. Wife took a timely trip with her girlfriends. Wiring is the priority so hope to have it wrapped up by the end of the weekend.

#714952 - 11/14/17 1:02 am Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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Just picked this back up tonight and noticed the fuse was cooked for the battery. Will replace and see where I shorted it out.

#714972 - 11/14/17 3:09 am Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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desco Online content
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One of the best improvements to the electrical system is to get rid of the glass fuse and replace it with one of these blade type 20A mini fuses;
http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-aftermarket-products/indicator-fuses.aspx
A red light in the fuse comes on when it blows. You can miss it. The fuse does not roll off the battery and disappear somewhere. They are cheap and available everywhere.
#2 The single point ground. Run all the red wires to a single bolt, including a new red wire from engine, rocker box is OK. I drilled a hole in my battery hanger. Then hook up the new fuse holder to that bolt and then the battery. Tada. You have just brought your electrical system into the 21st century.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
#715041 - 11/14/17 3:20 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: desco]  
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Hi Wally,

Originally Posted by desco
The single point ground. Run all the red wires to a single bolt, including a new red wire from engine,

Depends how you implement this - what some people have done, but I don't think "desco" means, is run an individual Red wire from every electrical component to a single point ... too many Red wires all over the bike. frown

Fwiw, long before the www, the implementation I devised was:-

. two 8-way snap connectors - one in the headlamp shell and one under the seat (most electrical components are in these two areas);

. each electrical component's Red wire connected to the nearest 8-way snap connector; the underseat connected wires include one from the rear lamp and one from the battery, the latter - as "desco" advised - includes a modern standard automotive blade fuse (although I use 15A);

. the two 8-ways joined together with two pieces of thicker Red wire - I use http://www.britishwiring.com/25-Amp-Thin-Wall-Cable-p/c628.htm; the wire between the battery and the underseat 8-way is also of this thicker wire;

. the two pieces of thicker wire from the 8-ways connected together either at one of the rocker-box/head/head-steady bolts/studs on a ring terminal, or into a 4-way snap connector above a bolt/stud, with a short wire between 'em.

Hth.

Regards,

#715049 - 11/14/17 3:49 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Wally Balden]  
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btour Online content
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Stuart,

What is a prong? The only thing I can think of is the male blades on the ign switch. Are there physically 8 of these?


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#715054 - 11/14/17 4:04 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: btour]  
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Hi Bob,

Originally Posted by btour
What is a prong? The only thing I can think of is the male blades on the ign switch.

Originally Posted by Wally Balden
toggle switch serve on the top of the headlamp
It has 5 prongs - two are low and then 2 on one side, 1 on the other.

Originally Posted by btour
Are there physically 8 of these?

As you say, Wally means male blade/spade terminals; there are five on the toggle lighting switch he's looking at.

Hth.

Regards,

#715108 - 11/14/17 8:54 pm Re: Wiring questions [Re: Stuart]  
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btour Online content
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btour  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Bob,


As you say, Wally means male blade/spade terminals; there are five on the toggle lighting switch he's looking at.

Hth.

Regards,


Oh, thanks, Yikes. Sounds like trouble waiting to happen in a light switch.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.

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