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Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray #711497
10/14/17 7:51 am
10/14/17 7:51 am
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
D
Dibnah Offline OP
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Dibnah  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
Hi all

The primary chaincase on my AMC 500 (AJS/Matchless hybrid) was oil tight for a year or so, it's now started leaking oil at higher road speeds. I am considering trying aerosol spray for final drive chains on the primary chain and engine shock absorber instead of traditional oil. I have reasonably easy access via a small inspection cover.

Self-leveling grease might be an alternative for the chain, or possibly one of the high pressure aerosol greases (sprays as a low viscosity film for penetration).

Has anyone used this approach successfully over an extended period. Perhaps a couple of years at 2k or more miles per year?

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Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711765
10/17/17 2:09 am
10/17/17 2:09 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,470
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,470
Owego, NY, USA
Direct answer, no, never tried it, but the oil bath, or splash, in the primary is there for cooling as well as lubrication, both for the chain and the clutch.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711779
10/17/17 6:52 am
10/17/17 6:52 am
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 620
Oregon
D
Dana_twin Offline
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Dana_twin  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 620
Oregon
Mark, that's interesting since race bikes tend to have dry clutches with no lubrication, but the clutch itself is usually open to the environment, thus air cooled.

Dib, I have used Dupont teflon chain saver spray which eventually 'dries' to a wax-like substance on the chain, and seems very effective, monitoring wear/chain stretch. But I would not ride more than thirty or forty miles without a new treatment of the teflon spray, which puts the kaibosh on that, I suppose.

Some folks use ATF in the chaincase which seems like a great idea, after all the transfer case on four wheel drive cars uses a type of ATF to preserve the rubber seals, which regular oil will eventually degrade. However I believe ATF may be lighter viscosity than oil, so perhaps ATF will leak more easily?

Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711838
10/17/17 8:18 pm
10/17/17 8:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,160
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,160
Bolton Lancs UK
Conversely ATF being less viscous will penetrate the chain links easier. Cure your oil leaks and have a rusty side stand ;-)


1955 BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350
1967 Greeves 360 Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711890
10/18/17 11:54 am
10/18/17 11:54 am
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
D
Dibnah Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
Thanks for the replies, the seal between both cases appears to be OK (minimal leakage when resting), the oil leakage appears to be at sustained higher revs and speed (60mph+), possibly blowing oil out of the hole in the inner chaincase for the output shaft to the gearbox. A deflector is fitted to reduce oil leakage via the hole for the output shaft, but no oil seal is fitted (Burman gearbox, tin primary chaincases).

I have been looking for another outer tin chaincase that I can modify whilst retaining the original case unmolested, but they are rare.

I can probably rig up a ventilation tube to the small inspection cover, can also possibly modify a spare domed cover for the clutch, if I can find a spare.

An alternative is oil drip to the chain, again via the small inspection cap. Or ride at slower speeds.

Similar to mine:

[Linked Image]

Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711966
10/19/17 6:17 am
10/19/17 6:17 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,584
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

BritBike Forum member
TR6Ray  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,584
Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by Dibnah
Hi all

The primary chaincase on my AMC 500 (AJS/Matchless hybrid) was oil tight for a year or so, it's now started leaking oil at higher road speeds. I am considering trying aerosol spray for final drive chains on the primary chain and engine shock absorber instead of traditional oil. I have reasonably easy access via a small inspection cover.

Self-leveling grease might be an alternative for the chain, or possibly one of the high pressure aerosol greases (sprays as a low viscosity film for penetration).

Has anyone used this approach successfully over an extended period. Perhaps a couple of years at 2k or more miles per year?

Dibnah, did you ever read this thread?


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711979
10/19/17 1:31 pm
10/19/17 1:31 pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 329
Irene, South Africa
robcurrie Offline
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robcurrie  Offline
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Posts: 329
Irene, South Africa
I hadn't realised you were talking twin cylinder till I saw the photo. The twin engine breathes into the primary chaincase, so you should use the same oil in there as in the engine, the level should be so the chain just kisses it, otherwise if too full, there will be a lot of churning. There is a roller bearing supporting the clutch basket which needs a splash of oil now and then. Oil shouldn't leak from the sliding seal behind the clutch if the oil level is correct, it probably leaks via the primary case breather hole (near the centre mounting bolt). I underfill the primary case, but I like to brake hard occasionally which will cause oil to rush to the front of the case and wet the chain. Check that the dripping oil is not from the oil tank breather which is sometimes routed to the front drive sprocket.

Rob C

Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #711980
10/19/17 1:34 pm
10/19/17 1:34 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 597
Ewing. NJ
E
edunham Offline
BritBike Forum member
edunham  Offline
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E
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 597
Ewing. NJ
Any chance that your breather is not keeping up with crankcase pressure at higher speeds? Could it be blocked, wholly or partially, or perhaps you are getting more blow by?

Ed from NJ

Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #712009
10/19/17 6:26 pm
10/19/17 6:26 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 350
New Jersey
F
Fetch Offline
BritBike Forum member
Fetch  Offline
BritBike Forum member
F
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 350
New Jersey
Chased a similar primary leak situation, turned out to be the oil level in the Primary as Rob C said. I'd verify capacity (from several sources) then run the bike with the minimum volume of oil and check for leaks before I did any work on the Primary Case or Breathers.

Re: Primary chaincase, aerosol chain spray [Re: Dibnah] #712058
10/20/17 4:19 pm
10/20/17 4:19 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
D
Dibnah Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Dibnah  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 466
UK
Thanks for the replies, what a fine resource this forum is.

@TR6Ray, thanks for the link, chain temperature does seem to be the biggest potential issue, I can monitor it easily through the small inspection cover (although I'll have to stop first!), I have a dynamo external to the chaincase, so although the drive chain to the dynamo might be affected by an overheating, the dynamo should be safe.

@ robcurrie, poor choice of internet photo on my part, my bike is a 500 single, the primary chaincase on the twin in the photo above looks similar, this is my primary chaincase:

[Linked Image]

Oil level was set to just touch the underside of the lower chain run, most of the oil blew out in about 300 miles of hard(er) use (minimal leakage in previous 1000+ miles of plodding around). I don't think that I have a sliding seal behind the clutch (Burman gearbox), did not the sliding seal arrive with the AMC gearbox?

@ edunham, I have seen the crankcase breather, I'll check that it's clear.

@ Fetch, oil level was substantially below the chain after some hard(er) use


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