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Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 #709688
09/26/17 2:29 am
09/26/17 2:29 am
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,202
Atlanta, GA USA
S
Semper Gumby Offline OP
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Semper Gumby  Offline OP
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S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,202
Atlanta, GA USA
OK - it looks like I have a leaky Tappet Block (LH front).

and I have discovered that there are dowels that hold the blocks in place on the cylinder barrel flange..

Is there an easy way to replace the seal about the tappet block?

If I go the machine shop route what instructions do I give? Tap and replace with grub screw?

What part number for the seal?
Is this a modern seal or NOS?

Thanks in advance.


Gaggle of BSAs
a Honda
an old BMW
and a Montesa
Parking lot Elf in training
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Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709691
09/26/17 3:16 am
09/26/17 3:16 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,600
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
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DMadigan  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,600
ca, us
Drill and tap the aluminum dowel to remove with slide hammer. Heat block and support flange then drive out the tappet block. Spraying it with electronic freeze helps. Replace O-ring 70-6560, chill tappet block and drive back in whilst supporting flange. Dowels are 70-9465.
Tappet block I measured is 1.157" but it does not have the O-ring groove so presumably 1.0625"? #023 O-ring 1.051" I.D., 1.191" O.D.

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709721
09/26/17 2:21 pm
09/26/17 2:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
Thanks for that.

And when reassembling the push rod tubes, do you use all the stock paper washers and white seals, or is there a better parts list or procedure to follow ? I've done maybe ten 3-cylinder top ends in recent history, but they've all been T150's. This R3 leans forward and may put undue emphasis on the exhaust tube seals.

Thanks. bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709731
09/26/17 2:55 pm
09/26/17 2:55 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,600
ca, us
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DMadigan Online content
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ca, us
I use my adjustable pushrod tubes.I do not use a gasket at the cylinder base or rockerbox, just Gasket Eliminator, so that changes the the rocker angle slightly. Plus, depending upon the seat grind I might have to skim the valve tips to get the adjuster movement correct. I prefer not to raise the rockerbox because it adds another joint to seal.
Everything is bolted down so the tilt of the R3 cylinders is not a factor in sealing the pushrod tubes. The head steady probably puts more stress in the cylinders due to frame flex than the weight of the top end.

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709864
09/27/17 9:12 pm
09/27/17 9:12 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
Thanks for the info and part numbers. We saw the blocks, o-rings and pins listed in the 1974 X75 parts manual that were not shown in the 1970 R3 manual. ...But then we also noted that the tappet block oil delivery tubes were NOT used on later models.

We are now considering simply blocking off the flow of oil to the tappet blocks... which is a far less expensive way to keep the tappet block from leaking. What do you think of this idea ?

Thanks. bigt



Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709876
09/28/17 2:50 am
09/28/17 2:50 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,177
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
Standard practice--not to stop tappet blocks leaking but to increase flow to the crankshaft bearings.
HTH

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709907
09/28/17 2:45 pm
09/28/17 2:45 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,057
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content
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John Healy  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,057
Boston, Massachusetts
Richard there is a service bulletin where these are to be sealed off any time the top end is removed.


Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709983
09/29/17 1:17 pm
09/29/17 1:17 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
Tridentman / John -
Thank you for that information. That's going to go a long way to making this bike better. And this is rather mandatory because Semper Gumby rides the heck out of this thing. Atlanta to Boston and return already this year !

So what is the advised method of blocking ? Did the Service Bulletin suggest a method ? Was there a special part ? Left to my own devices, I would remove the cap, and drill a hole about 3/8" deep from the inside to accept a tight-fitting ball bearing that is bigger than the stock oil gallery. In this way the bearing is trapped forever and can never work loose. Then I would stake the 4 holes closed in the cylinder base.

Thanks in advance.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709986
09/29/17 2:01 pm
09/29/17 2:01 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,057
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content
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John Healy  Online Content
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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,057
Boston, Massachusetts
The best money spent on a triple is to install an oil pressure gauge! Pat Brown, Triples Rule, sells a kit that is both functional and aesthetic.


Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #709987
09/29/17 2:01 pm
09/29/17 2:01 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,177
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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New Jersey USA
If I remember the factory recommendation correctly it was very crude---involving cutting the pipes and crimping the ends.
Your suggestion IMHO would work fine and is certainly much more elegant!
Best of luck!

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #710463
10/04/17 1:56 am
10/04/17 1:56 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,148
North Georgia, USA
So I went back into the R3 top end today and got it all fixed up in a 9 hour marathon job. The oil lines, due to thread locker on the retaining screw, were a bear to get out. Once the screws were out things went according to plan. The main bearing cap is quite beefy in this location with plenty of room to drill. The cap ended up being drilled using 15/64 and 1/4 inch, then the burr pushed up by drilling was removed. After that a clutch roller from a twin was tapped into place with some LocTite for good measure. Then the cap was cleaned and torqued back into place with the same bearing insert as before. There was no noticeable wear on the insert !

A couple of photos...

Drilled Main Bearing Cap

Main Bearing Cap with Roller In Place

Everything else was per standard.

Thanks for everyone's help. bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #710493
10/04/17 11:47 am
10/04/17 11:47 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,177
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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Tridentman  Online Content

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New Jersey USA
Nice neat job, Richard!

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #710508
10/04/17 2:50 pm
10/04/17 2:50 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,600
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,600
ca, us
You could have made an aluminum plug the size of the hole on the pipe side (with sealer), trim the pipe off the retaining plate or make a new one and use the original screw to hold the plate in place.

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #710522
10/04/17 5:49 pm
10/04/17 5:49 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,621
Mississauga, Ontario.
A
Adam M. Offline
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Adam M.  Offline
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Mississauga, Ontario.
Anyway you didn't touch possibly leaking tappets in the cylinder.
I don't blame you, they look like permanently installed by a factory.

Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Adam M.] #714981
11/14/17 4:07 am
11/14/17 4:07 am
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,202
Atlanta, GA USA
S
Semper Gumby Offline OP
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Semper Gumby  Offline OP
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S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,202
Atlanta, GA USA
No need to remove the tapper blocks as blocking the oil lines stopped the leaks up front.

Seems to be burning a bit of oil though....hopefully he rings just need to seat.


Gaggle of BSAs
a Honda
an old BMW
and a Montesa
Parking lot Elf in training
Re: Leaky Tappet Block on the 69 R3 [Re: Semper Gumby] #715921
11/20/17 4:46 pm
11/20/17 4:46 pm
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 688
Winston-Salem N.C.
D
D.W.R. Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 688
Winston-Salem N.C.
Hi Bill!
What piston rings did you use? There are some out there that will NEVER seat!
Don


71 Rocket 3
72 B50 MX
66-71 A 65 Bitsa
96 Trident 900


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