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#703714 - 08/02/17 8:22 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: AngloBike]  
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Lannis Online content
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Originally Posted by AngloBike
I understand that climate change is not accepted as much in the USA as Europe, but most of the major manufacturers are preparing for a petroleum free market in the future. That would be mad not to.



Being aware of potential changes in supply and user habits, and preparing to deal with them, is just good business.

There's a huge difference between preparing for potential change, and treating science as religion, complete with an Inquisition and auto da fe for "deniers" (heretics).

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
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#703726 - 08/02/17 9:53 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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I'm at a loss to understand why the motivation to move away from existing dirty technology has become something as difficult to understand as global climate change. But, I buy into it 100% because I see it right before my own eyes. No need to trust scientists or politicians about this subject.

But I was convinced long before this debate began. I watched hundreds of folks die from lung disease exacerbated by breathing the toxic air of Southern California. The debate about climate change is bogus and a completely intentional diversion away from the real problems.

I don't discuss it. Moot point. It's happening but it's not the real problem right now.

Moving these intractable dinosaurs that block our path to a better future is.

That will prove to be more difficult than changing the climate of the Earth.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#703738 - 08/02/17 11:25 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: HawaiianTiger]  
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Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
. The debate about climate change is bogus and a completely intentional diversion away from the real problems.

Moving these intractable dinosaurs that block our path to a better future is.

That will prove to be more difficult than changing the climate of the Earth.

Cheers,
Bill



Not wanting to move off topic or get political, but how do we go about moving the dinosaurs? Free market forces, government intervention, public shameing (read political correctness as discussed in another thread)? Human nature being what it is I fear any one of these will be offensive to some segment of earths population and just cause further divisions and animosity. Perhaps humans really are just a virus with clothes.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
#703741 - 08/02/17 11:53 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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i got science too.

i were a invertebrate micropalaeontologist. lots of science in that.

one thing palaeontology teaches you, is that in the end, everything goes extinct.

no help for it.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#703750 - 08/03/17 12:54 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: MikeG]  
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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by MikeG
[
Perhaps humans really are just a virus with clothes.


This really one of the best scenes on the subject from anyone's movie, in case anyone hasn't seen it ... Just a minute and a half ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOi6v5DD_1M

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#703772 - 08/03/17 7:00 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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I told a young man of 18 that it was his responsibility to change the world for the better. My generation did it, but unfortunately, all the good that was accomplished has been mostly undone. So, not only does he need to correct those things, he has a whole laundry list of things to improve if he and his children will live in a better world.

No pressure.

Human race a virus? Doesn't get any more cynical than that.
The Matrix was a huge disappointment to real science fiction lovers. Every concept borrowed from other stories and just beat to death. Sort of like all the post Apocalypse MadMaxian movies out there.
It's right down there with zombie movies.
Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#703785 - 08/03/17 10:32 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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'Perhaps humans really are just a virus with clothes.'



Maybe he only got to meet politicians....................



#703800 - 08/03/17 1:42 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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Anyone who believes man can stop the earth's climate from changing, is a person that believes he is god.

Notice I used a lower-case "g" in god; (think "Loki", not "Thor").

The earth's climate has been changing since creation (whichever version of creation; they all work out the same in this regard).

All the people on earth, with all the technology mankind can possibly invent, cannot, and will not, change the earth's climate.

Yes, you can seed some clouds and you MIGHT be able to make it rain on a relatively tiny spot. Now, let's see you stop the monsoon from starting up in Thailand, and stop the next "little ice age" from happening.

One volcano blast can undo every insignificant advancement all of mankind has made since they began attempting to change the world for the better. Same goes for one lightning strike forest fire.

As far as POLLUTION, where horrid things destroy nature, I am all for preventing that. Again, it's been said 37 ways, THE U.S. LEADS ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED in cleaning up our act, at HUGE cost. We're better now.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#703806 - 08/03/17 2:23 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: HawaiianTiger]  
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Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
I told a young man of 18 that it was his responsibility to change the world for the better. My generation did it, but unfortunately, all the good that was accomplished has been mostly undone. So, not only does he need to correct those things, he has a whole laundry list of things to improve if he and his children will live in a better world.

No pressure.

Human race a virus? Doesn't get any more cynical than that.
The Matrix was a huge disappointment to real science fiction lovers. Every concept borrowed from other stories and just beat to death. Sort of like all the post Apocalypse MadMaxian movies out there.
It's right down there with zombie movies.
Cheers,
Bill


Just posing a rhetorical question, really. The message you gave that 18 year old is the same one that has been given by Jesus, Buddha, and Al Gore among others, but they never seem to resonate for very long. The only place the human race seems to be on the same page is the path to self destruction. How do you change that?

Definition of a cynic: Someone who walks out in the morning and says "What a beautiful day...just watch some ba$trd come along and screw it up" laugh I'm not like that, but I have learned not to set my expectations too high and be grateful for what I have ....except bikes....always NEED more bikes grin


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
#703829 - 08/03/17 6:03 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: MikeG]  
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You mean that weatherman Al Gore?

Coolest August ever I noticed....

😉


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a Honda
an old BMW
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#703830 - 08/03/17 6:06 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: MikeG]  
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by quinten
Quote
The environmental life-cycle footprint of EVERY "green" system foisted on the public to-date have PROVEN to be negative! HOW is that "sensible"???


what are you talking about ? there is no foisting or even a debate .


the carbon cycle isn't negative or positive . science isn't in the business of foisting anything .
its just a set of inputs and reactions .



Quinten -

As someone who spent many years in the “Scientific” world earning an MS in nuclear physics, I can assure you that until “Science” is performed by machines, there will always be a very human component and a degree of fallibility (which is subject to debate whether anyone would like to shut it off or not) in scientific conclusions.

no doubt , scientists as a group will fall on a bell curve from foolish to insightful . so ignoring your position on the the curve at the moment
lets do something good science does
it repeats the experiment ... to death ...until a consensus is formed ...
the witch hunt , if there ever was one , was for 'climate changers ' to prove their case
science goes with the consensus .
guess what , the debate is over ,
it not like 3 PHDs believe in climate change and 2PHDs don't
... its 100,000s of thousands of PHDs agree about mans involvement in climate change ... and 3 dont ...
the studies are done ... the studies of the studies are done too .
even the consensus studies of the consensus studies are done .
[Linked Image]
the experts agree
that the experts agree , again and again


Quote
To be honest, you sound like you are treating Science as some sort of inerrant, unfallible religion, where the results are not to be debated or questioned as long as they meet your beliefs. I can tell you that it’s not like that, and those of us who DO question the unverifiable results to which other humans come are NOT doing it from a sense of ignorance and fear of conspiracies, but from a broad view of the world we live in and how our desires and beliefs can warp and bend our views, in both directions ….

Lannis

really ?
well lannis , I don't believe you are being honest .
science is just a method that documents curiosity .
and who the hell isn't curious .
if you don't know that science ... is not a religion ... I feel sorry for you and any company the may have employed you in any scientific capacity .
but I suspect you do know what science is
... and are pretending no to , for political reasons ... isn't this the very thing you say bad science does ? invent conspiracies .
... like well , the fact are not in , not everyone agrees . and to this you are correct . 3% don't .
if you want to present the 3% view fine , but don't pretend that there wasn't already a very long debate .

The following scientific organizations endorse the consensus position that "most of the global warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities

•American Association for the Advancement of Science (120,000 members)
•American Astronomical Society (7000 members )
•American Chemical Society (158,000 member )
•American Geophysical Union
•American Institute of Physics
•American Meteorological Society
•American Physical Society
•Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
•Australian Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO
•British Antarctic Survey
•Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
•Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
•Environmental Protection Agency
•European Geosciences Union
•European Physical Society
•Federation of American Scientists
•Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies
•Geological Society of America
•Geological Society of London
•International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA)
•International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
•National Center for Atmospheric Research
•National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
•Royal Meteorological Society
•Royal Society of the UK

...even the CIA has a 'Center on Climate Change and National Security' ... but shhhh , its a secret

science and industry are already moving forward but I suppose everyone has the right to be last on board .

#703841 - 08/03/17 7:01 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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Thanks,
We needed that.
The debate was essentially over 20 years ago.
All the whining and complaining comes from the folks who are causing it, not those who want to help. Then there are others who drink their Koolaid.
But at the end of the day even if there wasn't any evidence of global climate change, we would still need to do exactly the same things but for other reasons, so let's stop talking about it and get to work.

A cynic is a person who expects the worst from his fellow humans. Just observing human behavior can make you cynical unless you have hope and a foundation belief system that will lead you to a better place.

I got my house in order and now live in a clean, safe and hygienic environment. Once that was done, I looked around to see who needed help doing the same. My beliefs mandate that I seek to relieve suffering in others.

My landlady is very interested in solar panels for our cottages. Since we get our electricity from diesel generators, this is a direct solution to the problem of air pollution. I may be up on the roof soon.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#703847 - 08/03/17 7:28 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: quinten]  
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Originally Posted by quinten
"most of the global warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities"

So humanity on the whole (mostly NOT Americans) have managed to raise the earth's temperature a half-degree (highly debatable if that is even the case) in the last 100 years.

Time to start wiping out all the humans so the earth can survive unharmed. THAT would be the ONLY solution.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#703857 - 08/03/17 8:32 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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Death row next in line norfolk
Global warming / cooling has happened in past decades only thing which is different now is there is money to be made


1941 BSA WM20
1958 TRI-BSA 750 PRE UNIT
1957 THUNDERBIRD
1932 R E MODEL GS SPECIAL
1947 BSA YM21
#703861 - 08/03/17 9:05 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Tribsauk]  
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Running from demons in WNY
I don't know much about global warming, but the Europeans and their descendants manged to turn many rivers and lakes in this country into polluted messes in about 150 years....So if you think the atmosphere has an unlimited ability to absorb whatever, then no problem....


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#703862 - 08/03/17 9:12 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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HB I dont think nothing just stating there is money being made


1941 BSA WM20
1958 TRI-BSA 750 PRE UNIT
1957 THUNDERBIRD
1932 R E MODEL GS SPECIAL
1947 BSA YM21
#703866 - 08/03/17 10:00 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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Interesting topic and discussion. Electric vehicles and Power systems are something I know a bit about. I spent my whole career lopping the peaks off the electricity demands in the UK.

Grid operators talk about Base load ( big machines, steam turbines either Nuke coal, gas or oil) and Peak lopping ( old school gas turbines and pumped hydro storage), Hydro is pretty predictable and used as either base load or peak lopping, wind throws in a curve ball, being inconsistent.
in the UK the big base load stuff is slowly being shutdown, most of the old coal burners are shut down , a few like Drax keep going by burning woodchip Bio fuel ( not very clever).. We still have a good number of nukes, but some of them are timing out , and no one is keen to build new stuff after Fukushima, which is still a raging leaking disaster that is just old news now, they are no where near sorting this out yet.

its a common site to see switched off or idle wind turbines for a very weird reason, they are probably switched off due to over supply, its cheaper and easier to switch off a wind mill than it is to shut down base load plant.Its also a lot easier to fix a windmill than a burst boiler tube.In the UK "green " renewable energy is paid a guaranteed £30 or so per mega Watt hour, base load Nuclear and Coal are cheaper to buy, so for that weird economics to work the green plant gets shut down first because it is more expensive.
Last year Scotland got 40 per cent of its electricity total from renewables 2 percent of that was Hydro, a tiny bit of PV and 30 odd percent from wind, this percentage figure is risng steadily, once the tidal stream stuff gets worked out we should hit over 100 percent renewable, , exporting surplus to the consumers down south.

Photo voltaics have proved to be very useful in the UK ( 9 Giga Watt installed and rising) they almost perfectly match the lunchtime peak demand and that difficult bump in the graph now needs less Lopping from other sources.
The whole system is made easier to run by Pumped storage plant , during peak demands (eg. tea time peak), Cruachan ( 440 MW, ) , Dinorwig ( 6 x 330MW), Foyers ( 300 MW) , and Festiniog (not sure maybe 100MW) , can be used to deliver max power within seconds, during the ebb in demand overnight these stations reverse and become motor / pumps and have a similar absorbing capacity when demand is lower than base load.
The turn around efficieny of pumped storage is around 70 percent, pretty good, without out the risks associated with large battery installations.

As more renewables come on stream the need for more battery or pump storage becomes more important.
There are still at least two pump storage sites on paper in Scotland, however electric vehicles could be a very useful ace up the grid controllers sleeve,the model I have seen presented goes like this.

Customer has a deal with the leccy company, guaranteed X amount of KWh supply per day, however the grid also has an option to "borrow" from the customers battery at times of peak demand, this kills a few birds with one stone, minimal pollution, simple grid regulation, CO2 emision reductions.
Most households have at least one vehicle plugged in at any time so this becomes a very large widespread storage control with power in a box on your driveway.

For this reason alone it would make a load of sense for the UK to increase its fleet of electric vehicles. As battery energy densities improve this becomes more and more likely, I am buying jerry cans soon! I
I have seen " cassette " type battery systems which would minimise charge delays on long trips , pull into the battery station and swap the old for fresh in less time than filling ten gallons of fuel.
I have driven electric vehicles 0- 10 mph is very good, but these were old lead acid battery milk floats , I would love to ride an electric bike, imagine never having to find neutral or pull a clutch lever again, sadly untill an affordable machine that does at least 100 miles on a charge and doesnt weigh more than 200 kgs i will stick with the Beesa.
I liked Nicks take on over population, too true.
As for allowing the dancing monkeys to run Nuclear power plants, Winsdcale fire, 3 Mile island, Chernobyl and Fukushima are all thats gone wrong so far, I wonder where will be next, these stations were all buillt on the need for nuclear weapons, electricty was just a lucky by product, I could see the sense in a Thorium reactor with its useful waste half lifes, Its a grim fact but we need Nukes at the moment or the lights will go out.

As for climate change ,from 1959 - 2011 the rainfall has increased by 20 % in the west highlands of Scotland, numbers crunched from our own station daily records. Snow is almost a thing of the past , curling ponds never freeze over, somethings going on.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 08/03/17 10:11 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
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#703885 - 08/04/17 1:55 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: gavin eisler]  
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The weatherman wants your money because he has bills to pay.. ..

Better get in on those carbon credits for his sake.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...es-more-electricity-average-us-household


Gaggle of BSAs
a Honda
an old BMW
and a Montesa
Parking lot Elf in training
#703887 - 08/04/17 2:06 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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ricochetrider Online content
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Pennsyltuckey
Thanks for that explanation, Gavin. Interesting that wind generators are shut down for financial reasons, and that there is plenty of power in the "grid". Bill mentioned it earlier, but it always gets me that electricity is never used where ever it is generated. For example, we here in Pennsylvania are free to choose our electrical energy supplier. I "buy" my electricity from Green Mountain Energy Corp in Vermont, who is using as much renewable energy as possible.

Everybody may choose to believe whatever they want. I believe in renewable energy.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

#703889 - 08/04/17 2:21 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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The history of humans, and the history of the world, shows us that everything evolves. That which does not or cannot evolve, dies. Look at the Motorcycle industry, for example. British Motorcycle manufacturers refused to evolve their product, in the clear. light of the so-called Japanese Invasion no less. What happened? They fell by the wayside and eventually went the way of the Dodo & the Dinosaur. D.E.A.D.

Of course, I believe it is human nature to resist change. Odd, really- because change is the single constant, the one absolutely guaranteed thing in life, in this world.
How much change have we seen just in our own lifetimes? Plenty.
How much more will we see? Lots.
My own personal experience tells me its better to be proactive and be on the leading edge of the curve, rather than to try to play catch up or mop up the mess after it's too late.

Embrace change, or get left behind.
Evolve or die.
It's the irrefutable lesson of history.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

#703890 - 08/04/17 2:25 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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Aus
England also buys power from across the channel via the 400kv dc/inverter link to France (which is mainly nuclear).
Wind farms are everywhere here, ask South Australia how good they are....... major blackouts etc.
Tidal schemes are a great idea but the environmental groups fight against the dams across estuary's etc. so that coupled with
cost of operation and reliance on nature will always be hit and miss.
Stored power setups are very good but you need the base load stations.

Where i am, the way houses are built could be improved about 200% for saving energy by changing building regs and forcing
better levels of insulation etc. I had my house built 9 years ago and when i asked if it could be double glazed the builder thought
that i was stupid. (bloody poms etc) Energy used to be so cheap here no-one bothered with saving power just stick another
air con unit in mate. Even now with costs rising as they are no one bothers really.
Spending time in other countries like Sweden makes you realise that we only play at saving energy.

The Dodo was killed off by humans very quickly, not by natural extinction.

Last edited by NickL; 08/04/17 2:26 am.


#703908 - 08/04/17 10:39 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: ricochetrider]  
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Thanks for that explanation, Gavin. Interesting that wind generators are shut down for financial reasons, and that there is plenty of power in the "grid". Bill mentioned it earlier, but it always gets me that electricity is never used where ever it is generated. For example, we here in Pennsylvania are free to choose our electrical energy supplier. I "buy" my electricity from Green Mountain Energy Corp in Vermont, who is using as much renewable energy as possible.

Everybody may choose to believe whatever they want. I believe in renewable energy.


I live in western NY state where there's a huge hydro electric plant 60 miles away and 15 miles from one of the oldest continuous operating nuclear plants in the USA...But the power gets feed into Grid so the power at my house, and your house, comes from many sources including coal fired plants.


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#703910 - 08/04/17 11:23 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
All of Europe is now pretty much interconnected with HV DC sub sea lines and cross border tower lines, if the politicians could sort it out we could be powered entirely by Solar from the Sahara .
System margins in the UK ( ie how much spare reserve generation is available at Peak max demands) is now down to single figures percentages, from a peak of around 25% in the 80s. Brown outs or voltage reductions are the last chance now at times of peak demands.

The grid system used to be based on 660 MW base load units ( economy of scale was the by word) now its more "Mony a mickle macks a muckle", with far more smaller units making up the total, this has one big advantage, losing a 2 MW wind turbine is not such as a big deal as losing a 660 MW base load unit. However come dead of winter with no wind or solar and a big heating load we are still very reliant on non renewable options.

I want to lay one climate change denier myth to rest , Volcanoes do not come close to the total CO2 emissions from mankind, nowhere near it. One of the biggest contributors is international shipping , and I dont see that changing any time soon. Until a CO2 emissions tax is enforced its pretty much a given that we are headed for at least a 2C rise , probably more like 4C by the end of this century.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#703912 - 08/04/17 11:58 am Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Alan_nc]  
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johnm Online content
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johnm  Online Content
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New Zealand
Been watching this for a while and I'm pretty certain this will be one of those debates which might end up with some annoyed people and not a lot of meeting of minds.

But anyway the scientist in me feels I should say something.

I should declare an interest. I'm one of the bad guys. 37 years in the oil and gas industry with my whole career built on exploring and developing oil and gas fields. I have meet the President of the Society of Petroleum Engineers and plenty of scientists and engineers in my career who would say it is all a big scam invented by mislead uneducated greenies.

But these days, even in my business, 9 out of 10 scientist and engineers will admit that we have an issue. Many won't do anything about it because their careers and livelihoods are at stack. But around the coffee room tables they admit it's a real problem.

Some of the posters above have listed the normal objections. The earth has warmed and cooled before, its a natural cycle, last winter was the coldest one here etc etc . But one or two bits of information on their own don't constitute a real understanding.

Understanding the earth is a difficult problem. If your source of information are one liners on a web page or an article in Newsweek or whatever then you honestly don't even have the slightest basis on which to make an informed judgement. If you want to understand it then you will have to undertake an enormous amount of research on subjects from geology, physics, maths, climatology chemistry. astronomy, biology etc etc.

Or critically evaluate and rely on people you trust and respect who have spent their lives on the subject. I'm lucky in that the university I attended had a Antarctic research program and several of my professors and teachers have worked on Antarctic climatology all their lives. They were very smart people and I honestly do not believe they are lying or are part of some conspiracy in their published peer reviewed research. These are smart honest people.

This website is a NZ production which looks at the climate change debate. Especially as it relates to Antarctica. I know several of the people who worked on this and they are good scientists doing a job they believe in. There is no underlying politics in their work. Their work may have taken them to a place which is now considered political but that is most certainly not the same thing as starting out with an agenda.

http://thiniceclimate.org/

The executive producer is a guy called Peter Barrett. He taught me at uni. I have worked with him in the field , down caves, on mountains. I have bounced along back roads with him on the back of my bike carrying flat tyres to rescue broken down Landrovers. He used to ride a BSA 650 when he was at uni. How bad can the guy be :-) He is as honest as the day is long!!

http://thiniceclimate.org/peter-barrett


Last edited by johnm; 08/04/17 11:59 am.
#703923 - 08/04/17 2:54 pm Re: Britain to ban gasoline and diesel cars [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
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Mike P Online content
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Mike P  Online Content
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Ontario Canada & South Caroli...
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I don't know much about global warming, but the Europeans and their descendants manged to turn many rivers and lakes in this country into polluted messes in about 150 years....So if you think the atmosphere has an unlimited ability to absorb whatever, then no problem....


^ Agree totally with what you are saying ref the pollution etc but - (Europeans and their descendants) really! I think that when the first moon landing took place they were Americans. I think when a person is elected President they are Americans, I think when a member of the Senate is elected or speaks out they are Americans, I think when an Olympic athlete wins a gold medal for the USA they are Americans.... well you get the point (I hope) cannot dump the bad actions/persons/accountability/achievements on Europeans and the positive actions/persons/accountability/achievements as Americans, reality is not like that. Never heard any of the aforementioned ever called a European descendant, only as an American and more often than not stated with pride.


Mike
1971 BSA B25SS
1965 HONDA C90
1969 HONDA C90
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