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#694604 - 05/09/17 11:25 pm No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank  
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Bola Offline
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Fresh rebuild on 69 TR6R. I have been kicking this blessed thing until my legs wore out. I'm not seeing any return oil in the tank or the rockers. I want this visual before starting her up. I'm fairly certain I have the oil lines in the correct locations. Just to be sure perhaps you guys can confirm my locations.

The front oil junction tube (the one closest to the header pipes) is fitted to the oil tank filter/feed pipe. The rear oil junction tube (pointing toward the rear of the bike) is attached to the return/rocker feed. If this is correct why am I not seeing any oil movement.

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#694607 - 05/09/17 11:44 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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tridentt150v Offline
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Great Southern Land
No, you have them backwards....the front pipe is the return, the rear pipe is the feed.

#694614 - 05/10/17 12:13 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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desco Online content
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Save your leg. A cordless, reversible drill with the proper socket on the alternator nut will turn that motor over forever. I'm not sure if the oil pump cares which direction the motor is turning.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
#694619 - 05/10/17 12:34 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: tridentt150v]  
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Bola Offline
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Originally Posted by tridentt150v
No, you have them backwards....the front pipe is the return, the rear pipe is the feed.

Truthfully!? What about the rule... Filter / feed / front, Rear return.

#694620 - 05/10/17 12:39 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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Triless Online content
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OZ
Danny meant the connections at the oil tank, Bola.

#694622 - 05/10/17 12:54 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Triless]  
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Bola Offline
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Originally Posted by Triless
Danny meant the connections at the oil tank, Bola.

OK now I'm confused. The feed line where the filter is located on the tank is attached to the front facing junction box tube. The return line on the tank is attached to the rear facing junction box tube. Is this wrong?

#694623 - 05/10/17 12:56 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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desco Online content
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http://www.britcycle.com/manuals/Oil_Line_Hookup.htm

God bless Google


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
#694626 - 05/10/17 1:21 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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OZ
Yes, that's right. Rearmost pipe at oiltank ( from filter fitting) to front pipe at engine fitting.
To really assure yourself, remove both oil lines from engine fitting, and the one that oil issues from is fitted to front pipe at engine fitting.

#694627 - 05/10/17 1:22 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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reverb Offline
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...hi Bola; the feed to ENGINE is the pipe that goes to the filter in the oil tank and in the junction block attached to the case is the front tube (the one towards the front) I think that is the same for all the models.

#694647 - 05/10/17 5:36 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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The engine line that is capable of sucking oil out of a jar when you turn the engine, so you can see the oil rising up in a clear hose, is the one that should get oil from the tank.

The tank line that the tank will empty itself through under gravity, when you take its hose off, is the one that feeds oil to the engine.

If you remove the oil pressure relief valve, you should see oil being pumped into the cavity when you turn the engine. Then you know you've got oil feed to the crank. So put the valve back on, start the bike and go for a ride. The oil light should go out, or the indicator plunger should move out, whichever you have.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#694652 - 05/10/17 7:05 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: tridentt150v]  
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tridentt150v Offline
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Originally Posted by tridentt150v
No, you have them backwards....the front pipe is the return, the rear pipe is the feed.


Interesting I just looked at the diagram in the Triumph 650 workshop manual - Fig A2, page A5 and it is as I said.

#694665 - 05/10/17 10:03 am Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: desco]  
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Max Online content
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Originally Posted by desco
Save your leg. A cordless, reversible drill with the proper socket on the alternator nut will turn that motor over forever. I'm not sure if the oil pump cares which direction the motor is turning.


This is standard practise for me and I have posted similar on this forum, somewhere.
Also standard practice after rebuilding car engines, way better than sweating over things, waiting for oil return or an engine seizure and hoping oil is first.
Take the spark plugs out BTW.

#694673 - 05/10/17 12:51 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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Bola Offline
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Thank you gents. Invaluable info here. I could've b@ggered things up royally if I had not inquired. I will switch out my junction block lines to R/R, F/F and go from there. Cheers for all the help.

#694682 - 05/10/17 2:04 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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John Healy Online content
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Bola, besides getting the oil lines on the right way, and it is different for non-unit engines and 500 and 650 - 750 unit construction twins, the oil lines, pump and oil galleries must be primed before any attempt to turn the engine over. If done properly the pump starts to deliver oil to the plain bearings almost immediately. Use a oil can that pumps oil. Fill the pump as it is offered. If you have put the oil lines on before putting the pump on the engine fill the oil galleries between the pump and the oil line through the oil pump holes in the engine casting Before putting on the timing cover pump the crankshaft full of oil. After putting on the timing cover remove the oil plug at the front of the timing cover and fill the oil galleries in the cover. Fill both the feed and return oil lines. This includes pouring a half cup of oil into the crankcase through one of the rocker box covers.

If you do this right you should start to get oil pressure almost immediately. As a method to prime the oiling system turning the engine over is probably the worst thing you can do to a new engine. I am sure you have read that starting puts the most wear on engine bearings. That's where you get full oil pressure in a few seconds. Just think of the damage you are doing kicking, or turning the engine over, for a relatively long time while you try to prime the system by kicking or turning the engine.

Automobile engines are primed where the oil pump drive is connected to the distributor shaft. Of course with modern engines using electronic ignitions this method is not appropriate. By removing the distributor, access can be gained to the shaft that drives the oil pump where, with a drill, the pump can be turned until oil pressure is indicated. This does not require the engine to be turned. Sans a distributor a pressurized can is attached to the oil system and oil, under pressure, is put into the oiling system until oil pressure is indicated.

Triumph Non-unit 500-650 engine oil line connections at the engine: Front most hole in the engine casting = Feed. Rear most hole in the engine casting = Return.

Triumph Unit construction engines oil line connections at the engine: Front most hole = Feed. Rear most hole in the engine casting = Return.


#694695 - 05/10/17 4:34 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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reverb Offline
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...hello Mr Healy; when I said all the models I was referring to the logic (forward hole feed). In the pre units is even logical due to the tubes are parallels so is dumb to put the lines crossed. The junction block guides perfectly. due to those parallel tubes.

-Also, how about to put oil to the crankcase from the timing hole behind the cylinders in the 650 750s instead to put all that amount in the rockers?

#694696 - 05/10/17 4:51 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: reverb]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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Originally Posted by reverb

-Also, how about to put oil to the crankcase from the timing hole behind the cylinders in the 650 750s instead to put all that amount in the rockers?


If you want to oil the rockers before starting, then pump oil into their feed pipe, with your oil can.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by triton thrasher; 05/10/17 4:54 pm.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#694704 - 05/10/17 6:13 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: triton thrasher]  
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btour Online content
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Quite a jaunty looking oil can.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#694705 - 05/10/17 6:33 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: btour]  
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Originally Posted by btour
Quite a jaunty looking oil can.



I'm sure yours is cute too.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#694706 - 05/10/17 6:36 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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John Healy Online content
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We are putting oil in the crankcase, it doesn't matter how it gets in there. You could put it in before you put the cylinder on. No worries. Being the rocker box runs quite dry a little extra oil filtering through it on its way to the crankcase does no harm.

I find it easier to remember which hole in the crankcase is the feed and return for the Non-Unit and Unit engines is much easier and thus more reliable. What ever makes sense to you, and you get it right every time, is OK by me.

Triton's oil can is perfect instrument to prime oil lines and galleries. Looks a bit up market for this Yankee...


#694708 - 05/10/17 6:49 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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...ok; regarding oil, of course I use that type of can to put oil in the rocker boxes. I was referring to this sentence: "This includes pouring a half cup of oil into the crankcase through one of the rocker box covers."

#694709 - 05/10/17 6:51 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: triton thrasher]  
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btour Online content
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I have two brass ones somewhere. I put em away, and now I can't find them. I just bought one just like Triton's yesterday at Kmart. So I wasn't being snide. I had to buy more oil for the mower and happened to see it. Can you believe the mower was jacked up in the front for the winter. The exhaust filled up with water, and water was sucked into the engine on start up, which was after I had changed the oil, and the water got into the fresh oil, which led to the emergency run to the store. Weird stuff just keeps happening. Nice to see you all again.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#694712 - 05/10/17 7:01 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: reverb]  
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Originally Posted by reverb
...ok; regarding oil, of course I use that type of can to put oil in the rocker boxes. I was referring to this sentence: "This includes pouring a half cup of oil into the crankcase through one of the rocker box covers."


Oil in the rocker boxes reaches the tappets and cam lobes on its way down.

I don't know how many oil squirters I own, but there's a blue tin one and a red plastic one within reach lately.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#694715 - 05/10/17 7:14 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: triton thrasher]  
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btour Online content
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Lol Triton, happy to see you must have trouble keeping track of those things just like me, if you have so many. Or maybe you have a different oil in each one. My brass ones were nice but their shape made them easy to knock over and dribble oil everywhere hence my hiding place storage site. A wee cap for the spout would be nice. The new one like yours will be easier to set aside somewhere. It is those wee things that make a difference, like remembering which line goes where. And even the mention of the wrong way and then right way, jumbles things up again.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
#694740 - 05/10/17 10:14 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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I find the "easy to remember' mnemonic F to F and R to R very misleading. The rear oil line on the tank is the feed on the sixties bikes and the front the return. Also, I don't see a front and rear pipe on the oil manifold at all, but rather an inboard and an outboard pipe.

Since I'm prone to switching things up, I just muddle by and do it the old fashioned, messy way. After all, I'm used to pre units. I wonder how many pre unit motors have been ruined by unit guys not knowing that the oil lines are reversed on the pre units?

Or just use this diagram for the unit bikes. It is very clear.

[Linked Image]



Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#694746 - 05/10/17 11:06 pm Re: No return oil flow to rockers or oil tank [Re: Bola]  
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reverb Offline
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...hey HT; not the other way around in my pre unit 500; as mentioned in previous comment is even easier but the same.
When they say front pipe they are referring to the one more towards the front of the bike.
With the older pre units is really easy.

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