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B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? #643551
03/09/16 4:44 pm
03/09/16 4:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Leicestershire, England
O
Owain Offline OP
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Owain  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Leicestershire, England
Hi,

I just fixed a leak on my gearbox but now when testing the shifting pattern it seems bit bizarre...Isn't it supposed to be 1 down 3 up? Does anyone know?
Cheers


Owain
1969 - BSA Rocket 3
1950- BSA A10
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Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643552
03/09/16 5:16 pm
03/09/16 5:16 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
Agreed, the normal shifting pattern is up for 1st and down for the rest. However it is possible to install a reverse camplate but as I recall you need to have a gearbox shell drilled for the top indexing plunger. As I seem to remember that you put the box together from bits, maybe you have a mixture of bits.

Which gearbox do you have, plunger or swingarm? STD ratios or something else?

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643620
03/10/16 10:27 am
03/10/16 10:27 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Leicestershire, England
O
Owain Offline OP
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Owain  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Leicestershire, England
It's a plunger gearbox and STD ratios. I managed to get the bugger to select yesterday. I thought that it would be like most other bikes i.e. 1 down - 3 Up. So I may have positioned the gear selecting armature incorrectly. I reckon I will continue with the rebuild and once the engine is going. Give it a quick ride to see and check if I can select all the gears...I managed to get it into gear 1 and (I think) gear 2 yesterday. If it fails to find 3 and 4....outer cover comes off again, remove the gasket and all the cement and make the necessary adjustments...


Owain
1969 - BSA Rocket 3
1950- BSA A10
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643647
03/10/16 2:35 pm
03/10/16 2:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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Bolton Lancs UK
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern ie. down for up. When they produced the gold star with rearsets for racing they fitted a "reverse camplate" to keep the pattern with the gear lever pointing backwards. all completely arse about face IMNSHO


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643670
03/10/16 4:37 pm
03/10/16 4:37 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,546
Auckland NZ
Ignoramus Offline
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Ignoramus  Offline
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Auckland NZ
its 1 up
3 down


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643676
03/10/16 4:50 pm
03/10/16 4:50 pm
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 962
North East England
beezageezauk Offline
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beezageezauk  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 962
North East England
Yes indeed Owain,

It's 1 up and 3 down unless you have reversed the gear lever like some people do when fitting rearset footrests.

Beezageezauk.

Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham] #643743
03/11/16 1:30 am
03/11/16 1:30 am
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,539
Orygone
Boomer Offline

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Boomer  Offline

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Orygone
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern



Road bikes? I believe all of their bikes on or off road used this shift pattern. As far as a race pattern, having raced a Gold Star for 10 years, I found it beneficial for up shifting but a pain on downshifting so it's all in what you're used to. Not sure if it has anything to do with racing.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643766
03/11/16 9:43 am
03/11/16 9:43 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 344
Germany
P
Pete C Offline
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Pete C  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 344
Germany
You need to follow the instructions in BSA Service Sheet 608 if you have taken the box apart. Take particular care when inserting the gear Cluster in 4th gear! Also there is a lot of good Information on the WM20 site technical section (http://www.wdbsa.nl/).

1 up 3 down, the exact opposite to a trumpet which can make life interesting when you ride both.

cheers
Pete


Cheers
Pete
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643778
03/11/16 11:22 am
03/11/16 11:22 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
My B31 has a Nova gearbox with reverse camplate (which is opposite to BSA reverse camplate). I have 1 down 4 up with gear lever pointing backwards. My Greeves 350 has the same gearbox with 1 down 4 up. My Suzuki GSX1100 has 1 down 4 up on left foot and my Greeves 200 sprint bike has 1 up 3 down because Villiers gearboxed are based on an Albion design and need a good stamp to avoid missed gears (it still misses shift into 2nd sometimes)


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham] #643896
03/12/16 2:51 am
03/12/16 2:51 am
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,539
Orygone
Boomer Offline

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Boomer  Offline

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Posts: 3,539
Orygone
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
My B31 has a Nova gearbox with reverse camplate (which is opposite to BSA reverse camplate). I have 1 down 4 up with gear lever pointing backwards. My Greeves 350 has the same gearbox with 1 down 4 up. My Suzuki GSX1100 has 1 down 4 up on left foot and my Greeves 200 sprint bike has 1 up 3 down because Villiers gearboxed are based on an Albion design and need a good stamp to avoid missed gears (it still misses shift into 2nd sometimes)



So are you trying to say that because all of these bikes had a shift pattern different then the BSA that BSA had their ass backwards? crazy When BSA was making preunit gearboxes they were the biggest motorcycle producer in the world. Why would they need to do anything different.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643905
03/12/16 5:59 am
03/12/16 5:59 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
I'm not saying BSA were wrong, just different to the usual convention.
When I was road racing I always used a up for up pattern, I found a problem at Aintree circuit, Beechers corner, a right hander, starts tight then opens up accelerating hard leading on to the railway straight. I needed an up shift mid corner, the tarmac was stopping me getting my foot under the lever so I fitted a heel extension to the gear lever


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham] #643918
03/12/16 8:40 am
03/12/16 8:40 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,672
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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triton thrasher  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,672
scotland
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern ie. down for up.


So did Norton, Burman (AJS, Matchless, Ariel, Panther), Albion (Villiers, Enfield) and AMC boxes.

I don't know about Velocette and Vincent, but I suspect......


Quote
I'm not saying BSA were wrong, just different to the usual convention.


Not really. See above. Only Triumph used one down, three up.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 03/12/16 8:41 am.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #643954
03/12/16 1:03 pm
03/12/16 1:03 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,802
Comox BC Canada
I have no pavement racing experience but for scrambles the Triumph T100C and Tiger Cub pattern was great of going into the rough terrain corners when you could just bang it down into a lower gear. It was like having a second brake pedal. However coming out of the corners it was harder to get the toes under the pedal to shift up when you were off balance or standing on the pegs. The pre-unit BSAs like the Gold Star were hard to gear down into the corners but real easy to shift up to a higher gear during acceleration.

Changing between the two brands during a day of racing was always interesting. Oops!

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain] #644088
03/13/16 7:56 am
03/13/16 7:56 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,894
Sydney Australia
BSA_WM20 Offline
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Posts: 3,894
Sydney Australia
Me thinks you will find it all had to do with patients and royalties .
BSA made all their own boxes with the exception of the plunger A 10 which was bought in.
To escape paying royalties they had to be different enough from other patiented designs.
However my B 2 from 1926 is down for first & up for 2nd & 3rd ( deluxe model with 3 speeds, slow, slower & slower still ).
The same applied to Burman, the biggest supplier of gearboxes, theirs had to be different enough from BSA's boxes for the same reason.
Also remember it was the days of the slide rule and prototypes in metal so what worked before got tweaked to work a bit better


Bike Beesa
Trevor

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