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#643551 - 03/09/16 4:44 pm B/M series gearbox shifting pattern?  
Joined: Aug 2015
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Owain Offline
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Owain  Offline
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Malmö, Sweden
Hi,

I just fixed a leak on my gearbox but now when testing the shifting pattern it seems bit bizarre...Isn't it supposed to be 1 down 3 up? Does anyone know?
Cheers


Owain
1972 - Triumph TR7P
1953 - BSA B33
1969 - BSA A75R Rocket 3
1950- BSA A10

www.theangrywelshman.com
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#643552 - 03/09/16 5:16 pm Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
Joined: Sep 2001
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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Comox BC Canada
Agreed, the normal shifting pattern is up for 1st and down for the rest. However it is possible to install a reverse camplate but as I recall you need to have a gearbox shell drilled for the top indexing plunger. As I seem to remember that you put the box together from bits, maybe you have a mixture of bits.

Which gearbox do you have, plunger or swingarm? STD ratios or something else?

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#643620 - 03/10/16 10:27 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Owain Offline
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Owain  Offline
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Malmö, Sweden
It's a plunger gearbox and STD ratios. I managed to get the bugger to select yesterday. I thought that it would be like most other bikes i.e. 1 down - 3 Up. So I may have positioned the gear selecting armature incorrectly. I reckon I will continue with the rebuild and once the engine is going. Give it a quick ride to see and check if I can select all the gears...I managed to get it into gear 1 and (I think) gear 2 yesterday. If it fails to find 3 and 4....outer cover comes off again, remove the gasket and all the cement and make the necessary adjustments...


Owain
1972 - Triumph TR7P
1953 - BSA B33
1969 - BSA A75R Rocket 3
1950- BSA A10

www.theangrywelshman.com
#643647 - 03/10/16 2:35 pm Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Andy Higham  Online Content
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Bolton Lancs UK
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern ie. down for up. When they produced the gold star with rearsets for racing they fitted a "reverse camplate" to keep the pattern with the gear lever pointing backwards. all completely arse about face IMNSHO


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#643670 - 03/10/16 4:37 pm Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Ignoramus Online content
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Ignoramus  Online Content
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Auckland NZ
its 1 up
3 down


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
#643676 - 03/10/16 4:50 pm Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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beezageezauk Offline
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beezageezauk  Offline
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North East England
Yes indeed Owain,

It's 1 up and 3 down unless you have reversed the gear lever like some people do when fitting rearset footrests.

Beezageezauk.

#643743 - 03/11/16 1:30 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham]  
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Boomer Online content
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Orygone
Originally Posted By Andy Higham
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern



Road bikes? I believe all of their bikes on or off road used this shift pattern. As far as a race pattern, having raced a Gold Star for 10 years, I found it beneficial for up shifting but a pain on downshifting so it's all in what you're used to. Not sure if it has anything to do with racing.


Bill B...


Boomer
#643766 - 03/11/16 9:43 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Pete C Offline
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Pete C  Offline
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Germany
You need to follow the instructions in BSA Service Sheet 608 if you have taken the box apart. Take particular care when inserting the gear Cluster in 4th gear! Also there is a lot of good Information on the WM20 site technical section (http://www.wdbsa.nl/).

1 up 3 down, the exact opposite to a trumpet which can make life interesting when you ride both.

cheers
Pete


Cheers
Pete
#643778 - 03/11/16 11:22 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Andy Higham  Online Content
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Bolton Lancs UK
My B31 has a Nova gearbox with reverse camplate (which is opposite to BSA reverse camplate). I have 1 down 4 up with gear lever pointing backwards. My Greeves 350 has the same gearbox with 1 down 4 up. My Suzuki GSX1100 has 1 down 4 up on left foot and my Greeves 200 sprint bike has 1 up 3 down because Villiers gearboxed are based on an Albion design and need a good stamp to avoid missed gears (it still misses shift into 2nd sometimes)


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#643896 - 03/12/16 2:51 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham]  
Joined: Feb 2011
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Boomer Online content
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Boomer  Online Content

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Orygone
Originally Posted By Andy Higham
My B31 has a Nova gearbox with reverse camplate (which is opposite to BSA reverse camplate). I have 1 down 4 up with gear lever pointing backwards. My Greeves 350 has the same gearbox with 1 down 4 up. My Suzuki GSX1100 has 1 down 4 up on left foot and my Greeves 200 sprint bike has 1 up 3 down because Villiers gearboxed are based on an Albion design and need a good stamp to avoid missed gears (it still misses shift into 2nd sometimes)



So are you trying to say that because all of these bikes had a shift pattern different then the BSA that BSA had their ass backwards? crazy When BSA was making preunit gearboxes they were the biggest motorcycle producer in the world. Why would they need to do anything different.


Bill B...


Boomer
#643905 - 03/12/16 5:59 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
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Andy Higham Online content
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Bolton Lancs UK
I'm not saying BSA were wrong, just different to the usual convention.
When I was road racing I always used a up for up pattern, I found a problem at Aintree circuit, Beechers corner, a right hander, starts tight then opens up accelerating hard leading on to the railway straight. I needed an up shift mid corner, the tarmac was stopping me getting my foot under the lever so I fitted a heel extension to the gear lever


1955 BSA B31 400cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350cc
1967 Greeves 360cc Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
Modified Nu-Trak GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
#643918 - 03/12/16 8:40 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Andy Higham]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Posts: 6,881
scotland
Originally Posted By Andy Higham
For some reason BSA decided that on their road bikes they would use a "race" gearchange pattern ie. down for up.


So did Norton, Burman (AJS, Matchless, Ariel, Panther), Albion (Villiers, Enfield) and AMC boxes.

I don't know about Velocette and Vincent, but I suspect......


Quote:
I'm not saying BSA were wrong, just different to the usual convention.


Not really. See above. Only Triumph used one down, three up.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 03/12/16 8:41 am.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#643954 - 03/12/16 1:03 pm Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
Joined: Sep 2001
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Gordo in Comox  Offline
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Comox BC Canada
I have no pavement racing experience but for scrambles the Triumph T100C and Tiger Cub pattern was great of going into the rough terrain corners when you could just bang it down into a lower gear. It was like having a second brake pedal. However coming out of the corners it was harder to get the toes under the pedal to shift up when you were off balance or standing on the pegs. The pre-unit BSAs like the Gold Star were hard to gear down into the corners but real easy to shift up to a higher gear during acceleration.

Changing between the two brands during a day of racing was always interesting. Oops!

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#644088 - 03/13/16 7:56 am Re: B/M series gearbox shifting pattern? [Re: Owain]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,548
BSA_WM20 Online content
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BSA_WM20  Online Content
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Sydney Australia
Me thinks you will find it all had to do with patients and royalties .
BSA made all their own boxes with the exception of the plunger A 10 which was bought in.
To escape paying royalties they had to be different enough from other patiented designs.
However my B 2 from 1926 is down for first & up for 2nd & 3rd ( deluxe model with 3 speeds, slow, slower & slower still ).
The same applied to Burman, the biggest supplier of gearboxes, theirs had to be different enough from BSA's boxes for the same reason.
Also remember it was the days of the slide rule and prototypes in metal so what worked before got tweaked to work a bit better


Bike Beesa
Trevor

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