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#700339 - 07/01/17 3:28 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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pushrod tom Offline
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new jersey usa
Kevin, The solution is to just use the clutch as it was meant to be used. The dyno won't hurt it. Just be patient and let the wheel spool down. Don't do WFO plug chops. Easy Peasy.
As far as the Newby goes. It should be easy to pull. Maybe .150 from the top of the adjuster to the cup. Experiment some. It grips really well with less pressure. Honest. We use it on the nitrous bike and although we have broken many things the clutch has never slipped! PRT

#700344 - 07/01/17 3:50 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: pushrod tom]  
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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by pushrod tom
Kevin, The solution is to just use the clutch as it was meant to be used. The dyno won't hurt it. Just be patient and let the wheel spool down. Don't do WFO plug chops. Easy Peasy.

Originally Posted by pushrod tom

The lesson. Do not pull clutch except for normal operation!


so . . . just kill the magneto at the end of the run and let the drum and the wheel spool down under engine compression at closed throttle, correct?

Originally Posted by pushrod tom
As far as the Newby goes. It should be easy to pull. Maybe .150 from the top of the adjuster to the cup. Experiment some. It grips really well with less pressure. Honest. We use it on the nitrous bike and although we have broken many things the clutch has never slipped! PRT


the newby drive has always had a heavy clutch pull, using a standard triumph lever, but i have the buttons screwed down flush with the ends of the pins.

Quote
Maybe .150 from the top of the adjuster to the cup.


^^^which parts exactly are we talking about? the six spring-retainer buttons? if so, i've had them lots tighter than 0.150.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700378 - 07/01/17 8:18 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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chaterlea25 Online content
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Cork Ireland
HI Kevin and All,
http://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product-category/clutch
I have used the radial needle roller bearing parts shown here to modify several different makes of clutches
with complete success
The pressure plate adjusters are 3/8UNF thread, On a steel pressure plate I used a locknut either side of the plate to hold the adjuster fixed
On another I brazed a nut to the pressure plate
Specify pushrod diamater when ordering

John

#700403 - 07/02/17 12:00 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: chaterlea25]  
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koncretekid Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Kevin,
I don't cut the ignition; I just let off the throttle with the clutch still engaged, sort of a chop, and leave the motor running as the dyno wheel slows down. The dyno operator will slow the wheel down for you (he does have a brake, doesn't he?) You don't actually have to downshift if you plan to do a series of 2 or 3 consecutive runs by just slowing it down to 4000 rpm or so (which some guys like to do to take an average of 2 or 3 runs for each change in tuning). Naturally you do have to downshift to neutral if you have to restart your motor with kickstart, but I just downshift into 2nd gear pulling in the clutch to downshift exactly as I do when slowing down on the road. Then pull in the clutch and shut off the ignition and hold the clutch in until the dyno wheel comes to a rest. You can also just leave it in high gear until the rpm drop to 1500 or so and then shut if off and pull in the clutch until the wheel stops. You can then just down shift after the wheels come to a rest to restart. DO NOT BUMP IT BACK INTO 1ST GEAR with the dyno wheel turning! I took out the sleeve gear, layshaft gear, and the bottom of the transmission case when I accidentally did that once with the wheel turning too fast. I have a starter motor hooked up to my dyno wheel so I use that to restart the bike in 2nd gear.

If some people can get away with pulling in the clutch immediately after each pull until the wheel slows down, great, but it just didn't work for me (or you or PRT either).

Other Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 07/02/17 12:02 am.

Life's uncertain - go fast now!
#700404 - 07/02/17 12:05 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid]  
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kevin roberts Online content
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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by koncretekid

If some people can get away with pulling in the clutch immediately after each pull until the wheel slows down, great, but it just didn't work for me (or you or PRT either).

Other Tom



lol

you're both the other tom . . .


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700407 - 07/02/17 12:20 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid]  
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Posts: 3,098
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by koncretekid


If some people can get away with pulling in the clutch immediately after each pull until the wheel slows down, great, but it just didn't work for me (or you or PRT either).

Other Tom


I got away with it a few times that's for sure. ..After that at a different dyno shop with a knowledgeable operator I was doing it exactly like you mention.... My bike's stock dual strand primary chain has a short life An hour on the dynamometer and 4 runs down the track kills the primary chain...Discussing this with tuners way more experienced than me,.they think coast down on the dyno is hard a primary chain bike with a Triumph type clutch design..


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#700410 - 07/02/17 1:01 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
hmmmn . . .

Quote
M.A.P. Billet Aluminum 3 Spring pressure plate

Special M.A.P. billet pressure plate is precision manufactured by M.A.P. in the U.S.A. Outbounds pressure allowing less spring tension for easier clutch pull while the "INTERNAL" ball bearing reduces friction and wear for more durability.

A must for all Dry clutches to prevent clutch pushrod seizure.
Decreases clutch assembly weight
Easiest to keep true
Works great with wet clutch setups as well.
Note: Clutch springs are sold separately.


[Linked Image]

anybody ever used one of these? looks like a tiny ball bearing is inserted inside a tubular adjuster screw, which already must be small enough to slip inside the gearbox mainshaft. i don't know what the round pushrod-tube-seal-looking thing is.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700412 - 07/02/17 1:14 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: chaterlea25]  
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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by chaterlea25
HI Kevin and All,
http://shop.srmclassicbikes.com/product-category/clutch
I have used the radial needle roller bearing parts shown here to modify several different makes of clutches
with complete success
The pressure plate adjusters are 3/8UNF thread, On a steel pressure plate I used a locknut either side of the plate to hold the adjuster fixed
On another I brazed a nut to the pressure plate
Specify pushrod diamater when ordering

John


hi john.

the SRM catalog doesn't show the back of the pressure plate, but here's the bearing and the adjuster. the plate must have a machined recess for the bearing to sit against, and the hollow adjuster sits on the end of the pushrod and pushes on the back of th ebearing to lift the plate. makes sense, and might be adaptable to the newby plate with some machine work. is that how you did it?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700439 - 07/02/17 11:17 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Posts: 710
Blown Income Offline
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Edgewater, Md
Kevin,

Looks to me like pull rod was adjusted too tight. The Newby on my A10 has been installed since 2005 and I have had this happen early on due to being over tight.

Being were only really concerned with high gear I would adjust with say 3/4 turn on the nut, this should give just enough clearance to disengage to shift but makes sure your fully engaged in high gear. I also have the springs on both the A10 and A65 wound down to were the nuts are almost flush with the studs.

One good thing at Loring is BCS is right there if you need any parts, hopefully you won't but just in case.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
#700440 - 07/02/17 11:23 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
In the past, well before the internet I saw a this modification and tried it..... Cut off about an inch from the clutch rod...Then get a ball bearing, 3/16 I believe it was....Then cut off 3/16 from the longer rod piece...Harden and anneal all ends....From the clutch side, insert the longer rod, ball and short rod ,lubricate all parts....However I was not having a problem but did it just because...
On the MAP plate with the long quill adjuster...I see it as possibly binding if the springs are uneven tension?


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#700450 - 07/02/17 1:13 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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konon Online content
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Iowa
I use the MAP pressure plate, makes the pull lighter. Easy to adjust for even lift. The round gasket goes under the inspection plug in the primary cover , more clearance with center adjuster.


1968 BSA Firebird
1200 HD
XS 1100
1971 Rickman 125
#700452 - 07/02/17 1:23 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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pushrod tom Offline
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new jersey usa
Other Tom has it pretty right! After the pull leave the motor running and either brake the drum or just let it decel and downshift normally till you get to neutral, and then shut off motor. Dyno guy should know this. We usually do 2 or 3 pulls at a time to make sure we don't have any anomalies. Dyno guy will probably monitor head temp.
If the clutch is way tighter than it needs to be it will stress all of the actuation causing premature failure. If you have a chance/feel like it turn screws out 1 turn and try it. PRT

PS no need for fancy clutch doo-dads.

#700454 - 07/02/17 1:51 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: pushrod tom]  
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time is short, so i think i'm going to run with just a bit more freeplay,at first. this clutch performed flawlessly at all testing stages before the dyno, and ran a dozen times or more at wilmington. but i'll bring a box with a complete wet primary drive assembly and chain as insurance.



Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700457 - 07/02/17 2:51 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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pushrod tom Offline
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new jersey usa
That plan should work perfectly!! I am very busy now........ waiting for parts.

#700459 - 07/02/17 3:00 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
I went to Ohio three times and Maine once with a spare set of spark plugs ,a few jets, a spare battery and a few hand tools, nothing else...Now that I think about it it's pretty ballsy for me to haul it all that way and think the machine would be totally reliable ...But it was... lucky for me...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#700471 - 07/02/17 4:47 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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^^^This is why you continue to be so frustrating. you don't worry like i do, but just go out and set records and drink tequila.

i take a complete spare chain, extra master links, safety wire and safety wire pliers, tubes, duplicate deadman switch, a couple of extra disposable toggle kill switches, a complete set of motor mount bolts, points, timing belt, a box of plugs, rotors, zip ties, oil, funnels, rags, primary wire, crimp end fittings, complete set of jetted carburetors fitted with cables and a duplicate twist grip, extra jets and needles, extra throttle and clutch cables, chain lube, brake clean, wire dryer, fuel line, hose clamps, axle fixing nuts, clutch center nut, rotor fixing nut, square keys, woodruff keys, valves cores, lock washers for rotor, clutch, and swingarm, swing arm nut, front fork nuts, brake fluid, clutch buttons, clutch springs and cups, spare primary belt, plus anything else i can think of.

the first time i took the bike out, i got two runs before i sheared the nubbin inside the bakelite magneto rotor. an easy five-minute fix, if i only had brought an extra rotor. so i take everything i think i might need but not be able to get.

plus a bunch of tools.

right now i'm waiting for a five-dollar clutch adjuster screw to come from britain, because i continue to be a moron and didn't order any spares when i last got some stuff from newby. if it doesn't arrive, i'll install a hardware-store set screw and run with that and some grease.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700473 - 07/02/17 4:54 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
kevin just remembered he can't retro-fit the wet primary because he took out the adjuster mechanism and blanked the mounting holes . . .

worry, worry, worry . . .

lol


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700494 - 07/02/17 6:40 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 362
chaterlea25 Online content
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Cork Ireland
Hi Kevin,
The piece in your second photo screws into the threaded pressure plate from the inside , held with a locknut on the outside same as original adjuster
The pusher shown on the webpage, sits into the gearbox mainshaft, the pushrod is shortened to suit and rehardened
the nub on the pusher locates the bearing and sits into the end of the adjuster
Its a million times better than the MAP offering !!!

HTH
John

#700501 - 07/02/17 7:57 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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koncretekid Offline
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"..............................plus anything else i can think of."

So we all know whose pit to go to if we need something. Thanks; I'll be able to leave a few things out this year.

In fact, I even took an entire spare transmission to Bonneville last year, and had to use it too!

Kevin, I'll be at Loring but only with a different B.S. (as in Bridgestone, as my BSA has decided to stay in Colorado.)


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
#700516 - 07/02/17 10:57 pm Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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ohio, usa
bridgestone? cool! i remember those all over singapore.

[Linked Image]

what does it look like now?

the dyno guy had one of these sitting in the shop, for sale. it took me way back. remember that cylinder head?

[Linked Image]


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700533 - 07/03/17 1:35 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,098
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted by kevin roberts
^^^This is why you continue to be so frustrating. you don't worry like i do, but just go out and set records and drink tequila.
.


Hmmm..The problems you have were mostly the magneto and now the clutch....I use a Pazon Smartfire and have had failures ...but they happened in my shop....On the first dyno testing after the initial build the expensive Barnett clutch disc refused to disengage after the session...Cheap cork discs were the answer. On the night before the bike debut at Ohio ,the OIF sprung a leak from the usual places. I chose that type of frame to avoid oil tank leaks!!!! My rider was up till four in the morning fabricating an add on oil tank.. But the 650 was always reliable at the track and ran record speed off the trailer pretty much all the time....
My rider friend will be on the double Triumph at Maine but I won't be there ....I have no idea how the bike will handle at speed...I am less than fully confident about the engines durability...I worry if an engine throws it crankshaft and the bike goes down...Two engines, twice the worry......
But at the track I don't worry and enjoy the racing...But I don't ride the bike either...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#700561 - 07/03/17 10:12 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
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i honestly think the clutch will be fine, if i just use it like i was designed to be used, like tom said. and the magneto should be fine as well, now that it will be simplified. maintaining a battery and wiring harness for tbe pazon was frustrating too- i melted tbe harness the first time out when the fuse block fell to bits and shorted out. what i do like is that there have been no problems with the reciprocating assembly at all. just the accessory systems.

i'm really interested in seeing your machine. you keep downplaying the accompishment, but it's every bit as sophisticated as any double i've ever seen in any old magazine or photo. much better built, in fact, and done a lot smarter. i think it will probably do fine, unless it gets thrashed. but you knoa, running these things thrashes them, by definition. none of the major components was ever engineered with any of this in mind. the engines were the pontiacs of their day, if not the chevrolets. my magneto was built to power a farm tractor.

now my fork seals are junk. dunno if lowbrow is open today.


Into the distance a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction is holding me fast how
How can I escape this irresistible grasp?
#700564 - 07/03/17 10:49 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 160
koncretekid Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
"i'm really interested in seeing your machine. you keep downplaying the accompishment, but it's every bit as sophisticated as any double i've ever seen in any old magazine or photo. much better built, in fact, and done a lot smarter."

I agree with Kevin. I understand you won't be there to see it run, but, hey, it's not that long a drive for a fun weekend! Maybe Kevin will stop by and kidnap you on his way.

OT

PS: Kevin, I'd post a photo of the BS, but I can't until I get another photo Hosting account. I'm just waiting for the time being as I expect Photobucket to come to their senses, or they're going to lose about a million customers real quick.

Last edited by koncretekid; 07/03/17 10:50 am. Reason: added content

Life's uncertain - go fast now!
#700565 - 07/03/17 11:15 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
You guys will be entertained by the double...It's a virtual cornucopia of clever hillbilly engineering... wink I do take pride in Harley electric started and small on board battery and the modified Subaru wheel bearing supporting the primary drive jack shaft... And all the junkyard parts...


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#700567 - 07/03/17 11:25 am Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike]  
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Triless Online content
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OZ
Junkyard parts !? Geez, Tony, and here I was thinking the most important part of the Double was you ! Bloody good job, Mate.

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