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#434454 - 05/11/12 1:44 pm 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct?  
Joined: Jun 2009
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CAB Offline
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CAB  Offline
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UK
Hello
I started of another topic titled: Just put a deposit on a 1968 T120R....
Before I pay the balance I want to make sure it is a genuine bonneville. Do the following engine and frame stampings look correct? Is there anyway that I can quickly find out if these numbers actually do belong to a Bonneville? I have just joined the Triumph Owners Club but I don't think I will get a quick response. I know of someone who recently restored a what he thought was a Bonneville and it turned out that the DUXXXXX belonged to a Trophy. Someone had removed the TR6 part and re-stamped T120.
Frame number:

Engine number:

Thank you
CAB

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#434467 - 05/11/12 2:16 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
Joined: Nov 2008
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desco Online content
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desco  Online Content
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Bishop, Calif.
I've never seen engine numbers that look like that. My bike is 1,052 before that one and I don't know why they would have changed that much.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
#434472 - 05/11/12 2:37 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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Atlanta Bonnie Offline
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Atlanta, Georgia

Can't advise you as I'm not an expert. If you're lucky, perhaps John Healy might give his thoughts on this, as he has discussed number stamping and bogus numbers in the past.

Below are some pics of 68 stampings on raised pad. I think most are legit, but suspect one or two of them.....











Bruce


#434480 - 05/11/12 3:13 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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Tridentman Online content
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New Jersey USA
You could try contacting the Vintage Motor Cycle Club in UK.
They hold the factory despatch records.
They employ a full time librarian who is pretty good and could look it up for you.
Might cost you a membership though!
They could tell from the number who the bike was originally despatched to (the distributor in US) and the model.
HTH

#434493 - 05/11/12 4:02 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,883
Scotland
As long as you do not want a certificate the VMCC will email you back confirming if 7713X left as a T120R or as another model which should count most of the way. The stamping looks ok to me, just looks slightly diff as the numbers are ingesting dirt .

#434507 - 05/11/12 5:18 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: kommando]  
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CAB Offline
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CAB  Offline
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UK
Thanks for the photos. Which ones do you think are suspect?
Ok, panic over I think. I Just had a reply from the seller and he has a VMCC dating certificate with it so I'm a bit happier now. I don't know why he didn't mention it when I viewed. I suppose I should have asked if he had one. According to the VMCC it left the factory on the 3rd of Feb 1968, he didn't say where it was going to.
Dad is a VMCC member so I could get him to double check.
Thanks for all your help.
CAB

Last edited by CAB; 05/11/12 5:34 pm.
#434518 - 05/11/12 7:19 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
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paulberry Offline
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paulberry  Offline
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Stamford

I am intrigued by this thread and have a question.

Like all in the UK with a registered vehicle I have a V5 document. The V5 contains frame number, engine number and registration number. The V5 also states the date of first registration.
My V5 shows that my July 69 manufactured bike with matching HC frame and engine numbers was registered in Oct 69 with it's current H reg number.

Is the possesion of the V5 not proof of originality?
Surely if anybody in the UK was to stamp false numbers onto a frame or engine then they would not be able to obtain a V5 with the correct date, registration and number information.

CAB, you havn't said if the current owner has a V5

Cheers Paul


1969 T100S
1955 Tiger Cub
#434536 - 05/11/12 9:20 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: paulberry]  
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CAB Offline
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CAB  Offline
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UK
Hello Paul
Yes he has a V5C as well as the VMCC certificate.
I'm not sure about the V5C, I have just been sent two red replacements by the DVLA with instructions to destroy the original blue ones. One was for my car and one for my Matchless CSR. I think it was because a batch of blank blue V5Cs were stolen. Theoretically you could walk around a carpark, get the registration and VIN number (the VIN is now visible) from a car, steal a similar car and change it's identity and sell it with a fake V5C.
I think my dad was also sent a replacement as well either for his car or his Matchless.
Sometimes the V5Cs are a bit vague; it might just list the number DUXXXXX and not the model T120 or TR6. Before dad got me into bikes I had a 1965 Mini Cooper S. The V5C only said Mini Cooper and I had to get a Heritage Certificate to proove that it was an S (a genuine Cooper S is usually twice the price of a Cooper). Lots of Mini Cooper S's were cloned and sold to Japan where they are very popular because the log book didn't go with the car and another was built up in the UK from parts and sold again. Lots of Cooper were turned into Cooper S's as well.
I was told that there is a Bonneville on eBay at the moment that is a 1964 model but the engine number (that might match the V5C and frame number) is stamped on a plane boss. As far as I can make out this feature wasn't introduced on the crankcases until 1968....
I'm hoping that the bike that I am looking at is genuine; the VMCC certificate should show that there was a Bonneville made with these numbers, it's a matter of finding out that the numbers are still on that bike hence why I posted the pictures of the engine and frame numbers. I was hoping that those familiar with the marque can confirm that the fonts and sizes are correct.
CAB

#434608 - 05/12/12 6:17 am Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


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Scotland
Sorry but a V5 means nothing in terms of knowing if a bike is genuine. And a dating cert from before they were required to see rubbings of the numbers is not much use either.

#434620 - 05/12/12 9:04 am Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
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Nick_Smith Offline
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Kent, UK
As stated above, give the VMCC Library a call (01283 495105), or send an email (library@vmcc.net) and ask them to look at the card index.

They'll be able to confirm the model that held that number, and something about the spec (home market, JoMo, TriCor) depending where it went out of the factory, as well as the date of shipping - for example, my TR6R, DU566xx (about mid-way through the 1967 numbers) went to TriCor, leaving the works on 18/1/67.

Nick


"1967 TR6R"
#434655 - 05/12/12 2:03 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: Nick_Smith]  
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1968T120R Offline
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Here are some pictures of the frame and engine numbers from my 1968 T120R...TOMCC and VMCC produced dating certificates and indicated my bike was built May 21, 1968 and shipped to Johnson Motors May 31, 1968.

Bob




#434700 - 05/12/12 9:41 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: 1968T120R]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 112
mike07 Online content
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Ottawa Ontario, Canada
Your frame numbers look like my 68 Bonnie including the 7's & same for the case numbers. My stamped 7's are identical to yours in both instances. Obviously a different set of stamps for frame & case. Mike


68 Bonneville
68 Daytona
68 CL450
68 CL350
#435000 - 05/14/12 6:20 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: CAB]  
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Roadwarrior Offline
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Numbers look fine to me, but my bikes do not have that whited out area.
laugh


Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



#435030 - 05/14/12 9:03 pm Re: 1968 T120R Do these numbers look correct? [Re: Roadwarrior]  
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CAB Offline
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CAB  Offline
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UK
Thanks gents.
I phoned the VMCC today and within a couple of minutes they had confirmed that the numbers correspond to a T120R so it looks pretty genuine to me. Panic over I think.
CAB


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