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#395923 - 09/24/11 2:23 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Lemme see... you'd pay somebody $85 per hour to rummage through 300 wrenches... to fasten a bolt?

And I'M deranged?

Ooh wait, I can top Metrinch... I think I still have one of those "universal" sockets, fits all, has a bunch of spring loaded pins inside the socket to conform to the nut. Now that was a classic! Man, gotta see if I can find that little jewel, assemble a whole bike with one socket.

But we digress...

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#395952 - 09/24/11 10:37 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Jim Hultman]  
Joined: May 2004
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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BSA_WM20  Online Content
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Sydney Australia
Quote:
I've always wondered about this as well. Chrome has no iron content so it simply can't rust. Yet every old bike I've ever had, and I've had a bunch, has had some sort of rust on the chrome.

If the chrome has pinholes in it, I can understand it. The rust is coming from below and the chrome is pretty well shot. Re-chrome it.

But in many, many cases, the rust is apparently only on the surface. It's red. It's rust. And it comes off easily, IF you know how. And that's a REALLY BIG IF!!


No need to worry your pretty head about this one.
Chrome plate is shot full of cracks, not pin holes.
get a decent magnifying glass and you will see it plain as day.
It looks like clay pan desert after no rain for a year.
The nickel plate is similar but with smaller crazing cracks.
Where the two sets of cracks meet you will get rust.
Rust is very, very ,very, very ,very, very, very bulky which is why you get "rust bubbles" under paint or spalling of reo iron inside concrete.
The only place these very large molecules can go is up off the steel surface to the top of the plating where you can polish them off easily.
However the iron bit of the 6. Fe2O3. 4H20 ( flakey red rust ) will have left a big hole where it used to be under the plating which will now peel back if it is thin or leave a little "volcano" of plating if it was thick.
These pimples form because the rust actually causes the metal in the plating to stretch beyond it's elastic limit.

You also get electrolysis iron:copper + copper: nickel + nickel:chrome .
This is why it is essential to use a good chrome WAX on your chrome as the wax fills up the cracks preventing water getting in in the fist place.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#395967 - 09/24/11 1:33 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Jim Hultman Offline
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Jim Hultman  Offline
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Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: Steve Erickson
Ooh wait, I can top Metrinch... I think I still have one of those "universal" sockets, fits all, has a bunch of spring loaded pins inside the socket to conform to the nut.

laughing laughing laughing
No worries, Steve. Just funnin' ya. grin

#395968 - 09/24/11 1:43 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Jim Hultman]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Gordon Gray Online sad
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North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
laughing laughing laughing No worries, Steve. Just funnin' ya. grin


Hey Jim......I know Steve and you got it right the first time...he IS deranged!!!!!!!!


Hugs....Gordon in NC

"fat people are harder to kidnap"

#395981 - 09/24/11 3:47 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Jim Hultman]  
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Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
For example, the foot rest nuts on these bikes is 20mm.


The footrest nut is 7/16 CEI. So spanner size is 7/16 BSW/1/2 BSF I've never had to use a metric socket on one, that truly would be blasphemy laughing

We do have the advantage here in UK that you used to be able to acquire whole sets and odd spanners of very good quality for pennies, as the Armed Forces and the Post Office etc dumped all their imperial tools at auctions etc. That's how I got mine over the last 30 years plus what I inherited from my former aircraft fitter father.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
#395992 - 09/24/11 5:28 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: VicCyclone]  
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Jim Hultman Offline
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Jim Hultman  Offline
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Minnesota, US
Originally Posted By: VicCyclone
Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
For example, the foot rest nuts on these bikes is 20mm.

The footrest nut is 7/16 CEI. So spanner size is 7/16 BSW/1/2 BSF

OK, now I'm confused! confused

My 7/16 BSW wrench is way too big for the foot rest nut. I have another set of Brit wrenches labeled just "W", and that 7/16 is the same as the BSW version, also way too big. It is close enough to engage the flats, but WAY too loose to use.

Is there a different 7/16? I get confused on the various Brit labels!! help

#395998 - 09/24/11 6:07 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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Jim Hultman Offline
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Minnesota, US
Sorry LeRoy, don't mean to hijack your thread, but I just went out a measured a half dozen A65 foot peg nuts and they are all between 19.61 and 20.1 mm. And I measured a new left hand nut I have in stock and it measures at exactly 20mm.

I have three 7/16 BSW wrenches which measure between 21.06 and 21.23mm.

Is there another 7/16 British wrench that I don't have?

#396022 - 09/24/11 10:19 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Jim Hultman]  
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EWebster Offline
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Jim, the socket you need for the footrest nut is Proto #5425 25/32" which is .781" AF 1/2 drive

#396025 - 09/24/11 10:42 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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officerleroy Offline
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Farmington, Newer Mexico
Well I think I'm still just as confused about Whitworth as I was yesterday, good posts though. I'll probably pick up a wrench set here in the near future.

Good talk about chrome too, very enlightening.

Today I cleaned up the front wheel, which is (what I'm sure most of you could identify) an unoriginal off a '68 with the twin leading pads. It's a little rougher than the '66 wheel (you can see some of the serious corrosion that I was unable to remove) but I'm choosing it for its braking performance. I can always go back and clean up the '66.

So here's some more SUPER EXCITING wheel pics, but the front at least has the brake on.










#396031 - 09/24/11 11:07 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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holdfastgreg Offline
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Greensboro NC
Looking good man! Keeping plugging away!

As for wrench discussion, the information will one day seep into your brain and it'll make sense. There's a lot of learning to do on these bikes, and it can seem daunting or overwhelming. It also helps to talk and ask questions, people have different outlooks or opinions on things and sometimes thats the difference between being stumped or getting the gist things.

have you started making a list for the barber swap meet?

#396036 - 09/25/11 12:06 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Jim Hultman]  
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VicCyclone Offline
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Jim
You're absolutely right. I have always changed the nuts to stainless 7/16 CEI and thus had not noticed before. However I have 2 NOS cad plated nuts and they are both 25/32 across the flats. That's not a standard size nut in any thread form - However if you have one of those ubiquitous BSA tool kit double ended spanners - P/No 15 832, you will find that the larger of the 2 fits the f/rest nut like a glove. This spanner also fits the timing side crankshaft nut on A50/65, - definately a 20mm socket job when torquing up the nut. grin


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
#396056 - 09/25/11 4:13 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: ]  
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officerleroy Offline
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Farmington, Newer Mexico
Originally Posted By: 1968BSA


Did you use the coke for the sprocket too?


No. The coke worked okay on the spokes, it just took a substantial amount of elbow grease. WD40 and scotch brite pads work much better for the spokes I've found. It's funny though, I used the same combination on a particularly bad spot on the rims and I scrubbed a little too hard I guess and ended up with kind of a dull goldish sheen that now doesnt have a full chrome shine.


Up next I think I'm going to tackle the bottom end assembly. My manuals should be coming in pretty soon.

#396057 - 09/25/11 4:16 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: holdfastgreg]  
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officerleroy Offline
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Farmington, Newer Mexico
Originally Posted By: holdfastgreg
have you started making a list for the barber swap meet?


I have. I'm gonna have an eBay garage sale tomorrow to start adding to my "swap meet funds". Can't wait.

#396062 - 09/25/11 4:49 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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holdfastgreg Offline
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Greensboro NC
Originally Posted By: officerleroy
Originally Posted By: holdfastgreg
have you started making a list for the barber swap meet?


I have. I'm gonna have an ebay garage sale tomorrow to start adding to my "swap meet funds". Can't wait.


Hah, I hear you! I'm going to be spending time there looking for a bunch of stuff. I also have about 4 complete motors and parts - if you need an odd ball thing or two just let me know. I don't keep stock/standard/concourse bikes so all the stuff I don't use I put to the side.

#396086 - 09/25/11 12:55 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: VicCyclone]  
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Rickman Offline
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Ohio
Originally Posted By: VicCyclone
Jim
However if you have one of those ubiquitous BSA tool kit double ended spanners - P/No 15 832, you will find that the larger of the 2 fits the f/rest nut like a glove. This spanner also fits the timing side crankshaft nut on A50/65, - definately a 20mm socket job when torquing up the nut. grin


Hey Vic,
Can you post a pic, and a side view, of this wrench?
I have a tool, old, might be BSA, it is a double end 6-point box wrench, and one end fits the oil pump screw and pinion nuts.
I don't know what the other end fits... It's smaller... I do not remember where I got it, or found it, but has saved me MANY rounded off fasteners!

I may be confused here.... I was taught a "spanner wrench" is for those round nuts, that have slots cut or machined into their sides, and are useless for hex nuts. Spanner wrenches may come with a flat tooth, or a round peg, to engage the slot, or round hole, such as the exhaust screw/nut on my Montesa engined dirt boiks.

And OH MY!!! Have THEY become expencive these days!!!

So, for you, what are these wrenches named???
Brett

#396094 - 09/25/11 1:42 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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The Major Offline
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Torquay
Put a link on here to your eBay garage sale. You may have something I need.

#396148 - 09/25/11 11:06 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Rickman]  
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VicCyclone Offline
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UK
Brett

This is a classic case of transatlantic English. In UK the word wrench is generally used as a verb and rarely as a noun. The only instances I can think of are Strap/chain wrenches - for removing oil filters and some people refer to "pipe wrench" rather than the more correct Stillson's Grips, (An American invention). Everything else is a spanner - ring spanner, set spanner, box spanner, combination spanner. What I think you are describing, sounds like a peg spanner.

As far as the BSA spanner 15 832 is concerned see this on Flea bay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-4-x-5-8-RING...=item45fd32dad3


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
#396163 - 09/26/11 12:06 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: VicCyclone]  
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Rickman Offline
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Ohio
Thanks Vic,
That may explain things a little bit....

Yeah, that is what my BSA tool looks like, and I did go look at the wrench; BSA on one side, 15832 on the other, so it must be the one you mentioned.

It's a NICE little tool to own! I know exactly what the one end fits!
Brett

#398650 - 10/13/11 12:39 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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The Major Offline
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Torquay
Time for an update!!

#398757 - 10/14/11 2:07 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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Farmington, Newer Mexico
It is time for an update. Spent last weekend at Barber for the vintage fest. Had a real good time, picked up some parts, and met holdfastgreg and alex- good guys. Here's what came back from Barber with me:


Boyer ignition kit, podtronics regulator, fork boots, a muffler (barely seen), and some whitworth wrenches and sockets. I ordered new 6V coils and picked up a couple obligatory beesa shirts too.

So here's where I'm at, I've got most of the primary side sorted out. I'm missing a couple clutch bearings and I'm waiting for those to come in, plus a new thrust washer and the stator housing, which I guess was only used for a couple years before the housing was just incorporated into the case itself. The manual is a little unclear about this and the picture doesn't match up with the parts manual. Oh well, we'll see how/if the housing fits when I get it, pretty sure it's what i need though.


It came with 2 stators, the older type with exposed coils and the newer style one with the rubber enclosed coils.

While I'm waiting for the clutch pieces, I've gone onto the head.



Popped the springs out and one is broken.


Valves are pretty grungy, think I should reuse? I haven't checked to see if the springs are still in spec. I'm debating getting the drift tool on eBay and punching out the guides myself. I'm thinking I should replace the guides, can I get away with guides with the same OD or do I need oversize? Probably a question for the machine shop.

Also, the clutch friction plates measure 4.0mm. The shop manual says standard thickness is 3.556-3.683mm. Is that going to be an issue? Were not talking about a whole lot.

Up next, frame and other bits off to the powder coater.

#398774 - 10/14/11 7:25 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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Shane in Oz Online content
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Shane in Oz  Online Content
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Sydney, Oz
I replace valve springs as a matter of course. It's only about $30 for a set, and it's not worth the hassle of taking the head off again you find there's a problem. You already have 1 broken spring, so even if the others are in spec there's a chance of 1 letting go.

Valves always involve a bit of a juggling act. I'd probably re-use them if the heads haven't knife-edged and there's not much wear in the stems, but I have re-facing and re-seating equipment. The first order of business would be to get all the carbon deposits off and clean everything up well. Put some good detailed pics online so we can all have a look and give you different opinions smile
What do your valve seats and exhaust tracts look like?

I'm not sure about guides. I'd be more inclined to line them than replace them, but I've been told that the exhaust valves are more likely to stick in re-lined valve guides. That *may* be a clearance thing.

#398775 - 10/14/11 7:51 am Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: Shane in Oz]  
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Steve S Offline
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UK
You could find the guides are ok. As mine were it was the valves that had worn


Cheers
Steve

#398805 - 10/14/11 2:00 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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holdfastgreg Offline
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Greensboro NC
Hey man, it was awesome hanging out with you! Looks like you got a lot of stuff to work on now!

Let's start with valves/springs/guides. Let me first say, you do not need oversized anything. I would make the suggestion if you need new springs get new valves and valve guides (guides are $30). As you can tell on my TBolt - I didn't do the guides and I believe my exhaust guide is a little worn. My mistake as I didn't flow the head or check. Paying for it now. When you get everything assembled pour a little oil ontop of the valve and see if leak any or if it holds it back. This is a great way to test final product for the head - alas I didn't take my own advice and just kept using what I thought was a good part.

As for the clutch, make sure you have the right book - year. The clutch plates are different from early to mid to late(OIF). Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it as long as when you install them you have a good feel.

You got my number, dont hesitate to call. I also started working on getting you some parts for this bike.

#398812 - 10/14/11 2:21 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: officerleroy]  
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JD Offline
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Maryland
I agree with Greg...I'd just replace the valve guides. I replaced mine with some cheap new guides when I rebuilt my bike. Found out several weeks ago the my left exhaust guide had broken at some point in the last several years. I didn't have a valve spring compressor, so I took it to Alex's to find a mysterious oil leak. He removed everything and drove out the old guide. He didn't have a spare at the time, but gave me a drift he made so I could reinstall the new one.

After I got the part (I ordered 2, just in case), I heated the head and installed the new guide from MAP. It costs me $25 in gas to get to Alex's and back, so I just took the head to a local machine shop and paid the $15 for them to recut the valve seat. I'll also second replacing the valves and especially the springs.


Josh
#398828 - 10/14/11 4:16 pm Re: '66 Lightning project [Re: JD]  
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holdfastgreg Offline
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Greensboro NC
Originally Posted By: JD
I agree with Greg...I'd just replace the valve guides. I replaced mine with some cheap new guides when I rebuilt my bike. Found out several weeks ago the my left exhaust guide had broken at some point in the last several years. I didn't have a valve spring compressor, so I took it to Alex's to find a mysterious oil leak. He removed everything and drove out the old guide. He didn't have a spare at the time, but gave me a drift he made so I could reinstall the new one.

After I got the part (I ordered 2, just in case), I heated the head and installed the new guide from MAP. It costs me $25 in gas to get to Alex's and back, so I just took the head to a local machine shop and paid the $15 for them to recut the valve seat. I'll also second replacing the valves and especially the springs.


Jd, the guy posting this met Alex at Barber this year. Alex is a great guy! I guess I should order some valve guides to do because I think thats my infinite problem as well.

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