BritBike Forum

Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored)

Posted By: Two Alpha

Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/28/13 3:36 am

Ok folks, this is a start to restoring the thread started by Gary E. It's a little bit raw, I'll dress it up if it becomes necessary.
Hope you like it, feel free to post away.

Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (pages 1 to 64)
Posted By: Kevin (NZ).

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/28/13 8:47 am

Well done John. I am sure Gary will be feeling a little happier with the world now.
Thanks again, a brilliant effort mate.
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/28/13 10:40 am

Nice work. I got 'em saved now but this is an excellent start for resuscitating this thread.

Good onya as we say in OZ.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/28/13 2:50 pm

Now that is sweet. Thanks a ton for the compact comprehensive list. You da man!

I have been saving each page the last couple of days, but I can only get about 10 in at a time, as google locks me out after several. Must me sensing that I'm a hacker or something. Then I have to wait several hours before their system resets to go at it again. Also I couldn't get pages 23 and 29 to load. Got them now.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/31/13 2:09 pm

'67 Hornet Basket - Ebay

It's located not far from me. It's currently at $1,000, so is above my interest level.

Hard to tell by the fuzzy images, but looks to be a west coast frame. The frame number supports that based on my data base of Hornet numbers. The engine number, although not matching, also possibly fits in with west coast model numbers.

Not much else there in the pile is '67 or original. Oil tank, front end (forks, wheel, hub), carbs. are not Hornet items. Side covers are '66. Old primary cover. Tank, has no side transfer indentions. Can't tell about the rear fender. With the holes, looks to be non-Hornet. Also, don't know if the high pipes are originals or reproductions. So, basically a frame, engine, seat, maybe pipes, towards it being a Hornet machine again.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/31/13 4:52 pm

'67 Hornet West Coast model - Ebay relisted after failed sale

Seemed appropiate to put this on the thread even though it has a thread of its own. Also since another contributor to the other thread had alternative motives not related to the subject.

Richard mentioned in the other thread about the center stand. As you all know, west coast model Hornets didn't originally have a center stand since the TT pipes are in the way. Looking at the pipes on this machine, they look to be pulled out to the side more than normal. Maybe to facilitate being able to utilize the center stand.

Also, the right side pipe looks to have significant damage on the bottom. Not much support for the pipes with the rear mount cutoff. Only support then would be up front.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 1:33 am

It was not me. Show us a link so we can see it.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 8:06 am

From memory you have never seen one of these Gary? They are in the parts manual as a West Coast Hornet item.
Try this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300887323462?item=300887323462&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:B:ONA:US:1120&vxp=mtr

Sid
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 8:13 am

Oh and by the way I dont recall ever seeing a photo of your 68 Firebird Gary!
Sid
Posted By: VicCyclone

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 11:35 am

Look at the mounting bracket! This seat is for a 1966 B44 Victor Enduro or a B40 Enduro Star/C15 Pastoral. The bracket sits on top of the little loops in front of the top shock mounts.

Still quite hard to find and the brackets are almost impossible, I've been looking for one for years, - but not convinced it's an A65 seat.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 3:08 pm

I'm with Vic on it looking like a seat for a machine other than the Hornet. The rear mounting brackets are too far forward to line up with the mounting tabs on an A65 frame. I think the buyer is going to be disappointed when he gets it if he bought it as an A65 seat. He will be real happy if he bought it as a seat for a B44.

As a side note, the factory "Parts Service Bulletin No:GA.22", dated November 1966, for "'A' Group MODELS - 1967" is a list of part number changes, additions and deletions. For the solo seat in the '67 Spares Manual the bulletin deletes "H U.S.A." and adds L,T,R. Figure that one out.

I'll post a pic of the Firebird when I get it freshened up this fall. It's restoration is work in progress as a rider until I get the '68 Spitfire going in the next month or so. Both will be at the '14 International Rally, with the Firebird as my backup machine.
Posted By: Steve Erickson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 3:41 pm

The seat and pan probably are the same as the one for the A65. The front bracket on the solo seat is bolted on rather than welded like the later B44 brackets, so it can have other mounting set-ups (the T20 Cub solo seat is the same with a differently shaped front bracket bolted on). The rear bracket of course is bolt-on also, so there may be other configurations for it also?

Interestingly there was the same style and condition seat sold a couple weeks ago on ebay, advertised as a B44 seat, no mention of A65. It only sold for $90... so apparently adding in A65 to the auction was pretty good marketing!

Vic, if you are looking for a rear bracket, Steadfast (one of the sponsors here) sells them for around $20... don't know if they have the fronts, but one can easily be removed from a later B44 pan, drilled and mounted on the solo.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 3:53 pm

Originally Posted By: Steve Erickson
The seat and pan probably are the same as the one for the A65. The front bracket on the solo seat is bolted on rather than welded like the later B44 brackets, so it can have other mounting set-ups...


As you say, the seat and pan may very well be the same for B44 and A65/A50. The factory did that a lot. But the distance from the seat front and rear mounting tabs on the A65/A50 frame precludes that particular ebay seat from being used unless some adaption is made.

Yes, good marketing, purposed or not.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/15/13 8:36 pm

How about these from the same seller? I haven't seen the cable guides available before but suspect they are for an earlier A10 model like a Spitfire Scrambler?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300887366927?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648

Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/16/13 3:31 am

That seller is mis-identifying parts and getting big bucks for them. Those handlebars are way to tall to be Hornet bars, or any other model of the period. Never seen original factory cable guides that look like those either.

As the saying goes, buyer beware. I think I'll put some old cocktail shaker style mufflers on ebay and label them as Hornet originals.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/21/13 4:59 am

I went back and read about half of the old thread. Two things really come to mind: thanks to you all who rescued the thread. And too bad Skeet isn't with us any more.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/21/13 4:21 pm

Skeet made great contributions to the thread early on. He was instrumental in me starting the thread.
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/30/13 5:37 pm

Hi Guys,

as a Newbee I'm not up to speed about the thread issues here but do I presume that there is still a Hornet thread or is it now rolled up under general BSA?

Thanks all.

Ardee
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/30/13 8:23 pm

Ardee,
The "Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone" thread still exists. This is it. You are in the right place. The very first post of this thread includes a link to the entire original thread of 64 pages that were lost when the forum experienced a total loss of several threads.

A big thanks to Two Alpha for reconstructing and saving the original thread, providing a link to it, as well as doing the same for several other threads.
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/06/13 7:41 pm

I'm going to try to put some photos of my new project Hornet up.




[img]http://i1203.photobu[URL=http://s12..._0763.jpg[/img]cket.com/albums/bb386/2stillwaters2/SAM_0764.jpg[/IMG][/URL]



[img]http://i1203.ph[URL=http://s1203.ph..._0767.jpg[/img]otobucket.com/albums/bb386/2stillwaters2/SAM_0772.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


[img]http://i1203.photobucke[URL=http://..._0765.jpg[/img]t.com/albums/bb386/2stillwaters2/SAM_0766.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[img]http://i1203.photobucket.com/al[URL..._0740.jpg[/img]bums/bb386/2stillwaters2/SAM_0761.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I read the Hornet threads from start to finish and they amount to a fantastic body of knowledge. In fact they answered just about every question I had about the bikes.

I saw my first Hornet about 20 years ago sitting in a classic bike shop in Suffolk UK. It was quite tatty and had a huge hole in the back of the crankcase/gearbox. The asking price was well off my budget but I discovered this one advertised in Old Bike Mart by Yeomans Motorcycles in Worcestershire UK.

The bike came over from USA in a container full of spares and was one of three which they took delivery of.

The other sold for around £4.5k and I picked this one up for £3.5k. THat's a fair price I feel in view of the fact that the machine looks pretty complete and also I liked the fact that it looked well used! Engine compression is reasonable but I have no spark yet as I haven't fathoed out the ignition fitted.

It has a fout wire alternator cable which all seems to connect to a zenor diaode thingy (rectifyer?) and provision for a battery. Not sure if it's still 6V or 12v though. can anyone help please.

This is a fantastic forum and I congratulate you all for provided such a superb technical and editorial content.

Well done Y'all!

Ardee
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/13 1:18 am

Ardee,

Thanks for the info and pics of your Hornet. Some of the links didn't work. You got a good start with what you've got there. A good idea is to get the CDwith the part manuals and shop manual as the Hornet has some different parts not common to the other A65/A50 models of the period.

The original Hornet stator is a 5 wire unit, but some of the wires are not used as they are for adding lights. And that stator/ET coil combo didn't produce much in the way of light brightness anyway. Not good for riding at night, just for getting you home after a brew at the local pub. Don't know what you got on there, could be either 6 or 12 volt that someone added.
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/13 7:55 pm

Thanks for the feedback

Here are the missing pics. Any guidance on that ignition system would be very much appreciated.



This is the engine number which matches the frame.




ANd the frame number.



So waht sort of coils are these please anyone? A battery is fitted.



This is a Lucas item - Lucas Rita? 12 volt?



Are these exhaust supports period items or after market? They appear very well made.

Cheers. Ardee
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/13 7:55 pm

Lets all have a great day! Leon Bee, who has never deleted a post in his life no matter how dumb.

By the way, going up to Kansas to pick up a 65 Spitfire Hornet about next week.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/13 7:57 pm

Ardee, it's just been converted from the ET ignition. Do you have another box on there somewhere?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/13 10:29 pm

Ardee,
The frame and engine numbers do indicate it is a '66, late in the model year. So original parts would be the same as the '67 model year, except for the side covers (indented emblems & color) and color of the tank.

The exhaust mufflers and there supports are after-market items. Also, don't know what the plate below the pipes with the 4 bolts is, but it is not an original Hornet item.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/08/13 3:32 pm

Originally Posted By: Morgan
from your admin: FYI

I deleted posts here in this topic after getting several complaints from variuous members.
I will also delete this post within a couple of days so keep to the subject here and if you have any complains on me deliting then PM me direct.
OK.


Thank you Morgan for cleaning it all up. It looks much better now.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/11/13 3:17 pm

The three tenors went to the Quail Motorcycle Gathering in Carmel, California last week. A great event. Very high class and the event is on the golf course at the Quail Resort and Golf Course. The tenors were in good company as there were a lot of nice machines of all types. I started each one up and rode them onto the show field. The purr from the Hornet and Wasp pipes had show workers looking during the quiet morning air at 7 AM. Had the urge to really jump on it and make divots in their grass and golf greens. 150 bikes were judged and they said is was the largest ever. Last years program magazine listed all of the approved entrants and there were 250, so a lot of the machines are not judged. Endless food and beverages although a draft Stella cost $8. A very worthwhile event to attend, but spectator entry cost $65 which included an endless high quality BBQ lunch on real plates, silverware, cloth napkins, and table cleaning service when you're done. The long distance award (there isn't one) would have gone to a fellow that shipped his machine in from Japan.

The trip started out on a sour note with the loss of wheel bearings on the trailer. A day later and $650 poorer all was well. The trip ended well with the Wasp getting 1st place in the Off-Road division. The award is an engraved Tiffany crystal plate and $50 bottle of Champagne, all very chee-chee.

Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/11/13 5:14 pm

Congratz Gary. Sounds like an event to put on the to do list. Looking forward to seeing your bikes in person next year ! bigt
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/15/13 8:43 pm

Right, I've traced and mapped all the wiring and have established (for anyone interested) that this is a Lucas Rita electronic ignition conversion dating from pre-1972.

It has three wires only leaving the alternator which all connect to a recifier and that ally plate on the offside of the frame near the passenger footpeg area is a heat-sink with the two diodes fitted to it.

Being a 12 volt system I suppose it will need a battery to spark it. I'll try it connected to a digital battry charger - which provides a very stable 12v.

It would be great just to hear it fire before I put it to one side to get on with my other pressing bike projects,

Ardee
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/15/13 10:48 pm

Great picture Gary
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/21/13 10:14 am

Hey guys,

shame about the thread...haven't been on for a while, had nothing to contribute as my rebuild was laid up since my first post about 2 years ago.

Well, some good news - the 1966 East Coast (ex Cali. tagged) bike I bought here in Oz three years ago is now getting the treatment and should be a rolling runner in a couple of months. Thought I'd post some recent pics to spread the joy of another bike being reborn.







Unfortunately a few concessions had to be made (lights being one...) since I would never have a hope of road-registering this bike in 'Factory spec.' here in South Australia.

All the best!
Dave/Powderworks
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/21/13 10:16 am

correction: East Coast Hornet - before some witty mug reminds me Cali. ain't on the East Coast! hahaha!
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/21/13 10:18 am

Here's an original pic of the bike as I purchased it here, kitted out in Spitfire livery and a few other mismatched parts...BSA salad!

D.

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/21/13 11:14 am

Dave,
Your '66 is coming along nicely. They always look so good when in fresh paint and nice rims.
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/21/13 12:33 pm

Dave,

When your done I'll send mine down and you can breathe on it too. grin Nice job!! Who did your (Zn??) plating?

Ray
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/28/13 9:19 pm

Success! In case anyone is interested I connected the 12v battery charger to the battery leads and was able to get a spark on both plugs by turning the ignition key on-off.

Next step was to leave the ignition key in the on position and crank the engine with the kickstart and again a good spark on each side, proving the sender unit / reluctor works fine. Not bad for a electronic unit which is probably over 40 years old!

So now to set up the carbs, refill the oil drained when shipping from USA and squirting Easy start down the carbs to see if it will run.

Then on to petrol and checks that the oil returns to the tank.

If it does then at least I'll have a running restoration :-)

Ardee
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/28/13 9:43 pm

Ardee,
What is 'easy start'?
Posted By: Ardee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/29/13 8:32 pm

'Easy Start' is a spray can of Ether-based solvents that is highly combustible. The RAC and AA breakdown crews use it to fire up reluctant engines. Just a few seconds spray onto the air filter or better still into the inlet tract will fire any engine even if there is no fuel there (as long as you have at least a weak spark).

I think places like Halfords still stock it.

I used to decant 'Easy Start' into one of my mums small screwtop scent bottle to fire my Triton when it was proving difficult. Running 30mm chokes on a 500cc motor means the inlet tract airspeeds are quite low when spun with a kickstart so anything that goes 'bang' easily helped things along nicely.

Ardee
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/29/13 9:44 pm

In the US we call it starting fluid. It is really hard on engines.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/13/13 4:10 pm

'67 West Coast Hornet for sale in the UK

West Coast Hornet with correct TT pipes

A lot of potential here. Lots of hard to find pieces are there including the TT pipes with brackets and the tachometer cable clamp. Can't quite figure out how the rider could use the front brake handle though. Needs the correct shorter rear Hornet fender.

Thanks Ken for the link to the listing.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/13 5:47 am

How do I read the '66 Hornet parts manual when it quotes 3 front guards? The first one has no model prefix and is #68-6536
The second one has the model prefix of A65 S/H Mk 11 #68-6539.
The third one has the model prefix of A50W, A65 S/H # 68-6544.
What is the difference between A65 S/H Mk 11 and A65 S/H?
It would appear the Mk11 will be a Spitfire but is the S/H the Hornet? Interestingly BBB show the Hornet guard as 68-6544.
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/13 1:52 pm

You must have the early spares manual. The later manual does not list the Spitfire Hornet as that was a '64/'65 model machine.

68-6536 East Coast Hornet & all other models
68-6544 West Coast Hornet
68-6539 Spitfire Mark II, III, IV (short style fender, uses loop stay)

The later manual has footnotes explaining model detail. Also, in both of the '66 & '67 spares manuals The "H" is missing in the models included for the 68-6536 fender.

There are images way back in the first few pages of this thread that show the differences of the east and west coast model front fenders. The side mounting brackets and stays are also different between the two fenders.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/13 8:42 pm

Thanks Gary. I was a bit confused about that. I think this early manual has caught me out a few times.
FYI I have almost finished a full rebuild of my 67 West Coast and it is looking very sharp. I am not sure if it is up to your standard but pretty close I feel. All I have to do is get one exhaust pipe rechromed (for the second time) as I forgot to put the spacer on the front stud which logically popped the bracket weld when tightened. Any idea who may stock those spacers? It may be easier to get some made locally. It is doing such a stupid thing that occasionally frustrates the crap out of me and episodes such as this seem to be getting more regular as I age!
Sid.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/13 8:55 pm

The distance piece is 68-4906 (7/16 x 7/8 x 3/16) To get the pipes to fit the frame and engine correctly I have two of them on the left side and none (except a standard washer on the right side.

Britich Only lists the distance piece, but doesn't mean they have it. Maybe just make one or two of them unless you are ordering a bunch of parts from one the the usual suppliers.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/13 5:25 am

Thanks Gary. I am getting them made up locally and are trading a copy of the Stainless Steel Fasteners reference book for them.
Good deal!
Sid
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/13 5:50 am

Measuring up the front guard stays 2 that have 12 inch centers and 2 are 12&7/16 Centers. The parts book, well my early one, shows them both as 12 inch 42-6560 so what are the other two off? Also the center tab bracket is shown as a plain stay 68-6547 which I take may also be for the 65 & early 66? I presume the correct stay would be the same as the 67 ie with an 'L' lip on it?
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/13 10:44 am

The short stays are for the east coast fender, whereas the longer stays are for the west coast fender. The longer ones usually, but not always, have an "H" stamped on one end of them near the mounting hole. The straight center bracket is for the east coast fender, whereas the bracket with the 45 degree angle is for the west coast fender. There is a third type of bracket that has a 22 degree angle, but it is for the '68 models, and not for the Hornets.

Again, all of this is shown in images in the earlier pages of this thread. For me, it's easier to understand with images than narrative.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/13 11:22 pm

What length hole centre to centre are your west coast ones Gary. The ones on mine I was told were NOS and measure 12&1/4 inch whereas these ones are 12&1/2!
Also the seat on it has a grab strap on it. I dont think this is correct for a 66? Any idea what that came off?

Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/13 11:52 pm

West Coast: 12.5"

East Coast: 12.0"

The west coast stays have a more pronounced bend at the end that bolts to the fender. Otherwise they wouldn't match up to the west coast fender tab that has more of a spread than the east coast (standard model) fender.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/11/13 4:53 am

Here's A65E1285. Has correct frame number, too, could be a matched set. My pal got it out of Topeka, maybe the seller checks in here?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/13 2:01 am

Leon,
Will you be putting it together for him?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/25/13 3:13 pm

Hornet pipes on Ebay


http://r.ebay.com/cGOvds
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/25/13 3:27 pm

They look to be after-market pipes. They've got the famous Snuff-or-Nots.
Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/25/13 6:11 pm

Here are some photos of the Indian Steel Hornet Spitfire tank. It sat about a 1/2 forward. The filler cap mounting also need some finessing front and rear so the cap would fully open and lock. The petcocks were tapped for Triumph lever type so the fuel lines have to be modified.
Not a bad tank, but attention to details is lacking.

















Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/05/13 5:10 pm

Jon Healy,

Here are the photos of the adjustment to the steel Hornet Spit tank. Sorry I am not sure which supplier I bought it from but it cost was $180.00 plus $80 for shipping.
Posted By: Jon W. Whitley

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/08/13 12:29 am


Tank looks good Richard and ingenious mounting stud set-up !


Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/20/13 8:47 pm

KILL SWITCH

NOS kill switch, holder, and clamps, in the correct position on the handlebars (according to the factory).



Posted By: Shane in Oz

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/20/13 10:18 pm

Off at a bit of a tangent here, Cyclone on eBay

It looks the part by and large, but has matching A50C engine and frame numbers where I would have expected non-matching A50B
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/20/13 11:43 pm

Looks to be a '66 Hornet. Frame number, which is A50C, is consistent with '66, and engine number is a restamping. Not sure how the seller came up with "Scrambler Cyclone Hornet". Nothing Cyclone about it.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/21/13 4:06 am

That had me confused for a minute. So somebody just stamped crankcase to match an A50 frame number?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/21/13 4:13 pm

Sure looks to be the case of case restamping. The stamping fonts are all wrong.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/05/13 10:12 pm

Well, I've cleared enough internal combustion projects out of the way so I'm now able to spend some time working on my '67 Hornet. Most everything is currently in boxes so I'll be starting from the frame up.

I disassembled the forks as much as possible to prepare for a rebuild. What is confusing me now is that my forks each have 2 internal springs that surround the fork damper rod (1 short and 1 long (sort of a progressive set up). The 1967 parts manual (pg. 52) does not show these springs. Am I missing something?

I've looked for detailed description of a fork rebuild, but haven't had any luck. I'll probably be replacing the fork tubes, seals and all misc. parts. Before I rebuild, do the lowers need any special treatment internally before reassembly? The damper tubes look good, are they typically re-usable? Finally, will I need any special tools to complete this fork rebuild?
Thanks for the advice!
Tom

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/05/13 10:55 pm

Tom,
Can't visualize the 2 springs in there, but doesn't seem correct. You've looked at the spares manual page, so you know how it should be. To add to the page 52 diagram, there are 2 retaining washers (item #37) that sandwich the sealing washer (item #36). And Item #21 goes in the top of the damper tube (#8). It is confusing showing it at the bottom of the damper rod on the page. Also the oil drain screw (#11) aligns with a groove in the side (at the bottom) of the damper tube during installation. That keeps the damper tube from turning while tighning the bottom cap screw.

Fork seals are about all that needs tending to unless the 2 sets of bushings are worn to a point they need replacing. Not usually though. Make sure the bushing nut is tight when re-assembling. I've had to deal with a nut that was undone by a previous owner. Also insure that all of the parts to the damper valve are there and installed in the correct order and orientation. The fork tubes, as long as they are straight, are usually reusable. When re-assembling, good luck with the cap screw (item #15), that bolts the damper tube to the bottom of the sliders. They are oil leakers even with the aluminum sealing washer. So, apply some silicone seal to the cap screw before installing and hope you get lucky with no oil leaks.

The only special tool needed will be to tighten the oil seal holder. There are two notches down in it that a special tool is used to lock in place in the notches to tighten it. The tool can be purchased or make one. I made one from black plumbing pipe using a hack saw and file to make the notch pins, then welded a couple of big bolts to the top "T" style for handles. I use twine as a sealer of the fork seal holder and slide tubes as per the service maual, but some use silicone or similar.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/05/13 11:53 pm

All I could add is that sometimes that thin nut at bottom of tube can be a bitch to get off. I discovered one of my 6 point impact sockets fits on really snug, now never a problem. Gary mentions the special tool to re-install seal holder........you might need it a LOT more to get the seal holder off.

Edit: I guess you already got em apart
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/06/13 10:20 pm

Thanks for the details Gary and leon bee. I'll let you know how things go. I'm going to try to post a photo of the springs.

There was a set inside each of the fork tubes! The smaller spring was at the top. Am I even dealing with the correct pair of '67 forks to begin with?
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/07/13 10:18 pm

Thats that one pretty much done!
Please dont mention the back arse wards transfer on the RHS tank. That fair slipped through to the keeper!
Otherwise fairly accurate me thinks.






I must admit this took me much longer than I thought. I had it roughly cobbled together for my bike show so I had to srtip it full down and start again from scratch. A 3 month job me thinks!!!Wrong, make that 12 months!
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/08/13 5:47 pm

Very nice west coast model!

I see you opted to utilize the pipe heat sink collars. I like the way they look. They give the pipes a finished apperance.

There is a clip that attaches to the bottom yoke fork tube clamp bolt that holds the front brake cable up along the front fork assembly, so it isn't flopping around. Spares manual gage 50, item 13 (40-5090). You probably already know about it.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 1:56 am

Thanks Gary, I have it and I was waiting to find out what side it went:) You can see Ihad it on the other side to hold the clutch cable. Its bloody long and hanging there without anything to secure it!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 10:50 am

Yes, the NOS clutch cables are longer than they need to be. I attached it to the opposite side front frame down tube with a John Bull rubber. The cable runs up between the front of the fuel tank and the frame to the left side yoke cable guide. I also run my throttle cables up thru the right side yoke cable guide to keep them "at bay".

I noticed you opted to mount the ET coils facing downward. Any particular reason?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 10:54 am

Originally Posted By: tomkatohio
...I'm going to try to post a photo of the springs...
...There was a set inside each of the fork tubes! The smaller spring was at the top. Am I even dealing with the correct pair of '67 forks to begin with?

Tom,
Never seen springs like that in '67 forks. Post images of the rest of the fork parts, so we can identify whether they are correct for '67.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 4:49 pm

No, I thought this was the way they were supposed to be? I had saved a number of images over the years showing them this way, possibly they were all wrong? Have you got any OEM images that can be trusted? Certainly now I check the parts book they indicate them pointing backwards.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 5:22 pm

This is an image from the original factory flyer of the west coast Hornet. The condensor and points wires can be seen at the bottom of the coils. I have never seen unmolested Hornets with the coils mounted other than this direction. The Spares Manual I have (00-5129) show them in the same orientation with the HT lead out of the top..

Posted By: craigw

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 7:11 pm

This is a great thread on these bikes. Just a quick question, I was digging through some of my old cases and parts and ran across a case marked A65EC 14**. I am assuming 1965 Spitfire Hornet because of the A65E. If this is a 1965 what does the C stand for?
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 7:47 pm

Originally Posted By: craigw
This is a great thread on these bikes. Just a quick question, I was digging through some of my old cases and parts and ran across a case marked A65EC 14**. I am assuming 1965 Spitfire Hornet because of the A65E. If this is a 1965 what does the C stand for?


C = close ratio. Not the first engine S/N from that vintage to pop up with the C suffix. Is it just cases or complete trans? If complete, count gear teeth to verify if the CR trans is still intact. Nice find if it is.

Quick and dirty way to verify is tooth count on the sliding gears. If they match it is std, if not matching, then at least 2nd or 3rd is CR.

Early CR was 1st & 2nd only. Later changed 3rd also.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/13 10:54 pm

Following is a photo of the internals from one of the forks I tore apart. Both are identical (I added the double nut to remove the stud!). They're not very pretty!

I don't remember if the smaller spring was on top or bottom.

My "treasure" boxes did include parts from what is titled as a '67 Hornet (A65HA9445 frame and A65HA9445-Y engine) and some misc. Lightning parts (perhaps a '66) (A65L14820 frame). I only have a '67 parts manual. Could these possibly be the forks for the Lightning since I have two spacers with the headlight ears? I couldn't find any other spacers without the ears.


Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/10/13 7:55 am

Not sure what you have there. The forks were all very similar in that era for the unit singles and unit twins. There were some differences in stanchion length and lowers, but the rest was pretty much the same. External springs with damper rods internally.

The lower, damper tube, and fork seal holder are BSA bits. The rest....not so sure. Might have been a modification from back then or an attempted modification.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/10/13 9:00 am

Hey Rich,
Thinking along the line of 'modification'....

Could this be an attempt at trying to keep the forks better extended for actual competition work???

I know how saggy the original BSA springs got....

I'm not so sure it was a good idea, working on the damper assembly...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/10/13 11:36 am

Originally Posted By: tomkatohio
...Could these possibly be the forks for the Lightning since I have two spacers with the headlight ears? I couldn't find any other spacers without the ears...

The fork cover and springs are not Hornet. As Rich said, maybe the springs are someones mod. The rest look Hornet but measuring the fork tubes and sliders ought to be done to make sure they are A65/A50. A bolt goes in the slider pinch for the axle rather than a stud. Use the '67 Spares Manual to identify the parts needed.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/10/13 10:17 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Damper Tube measures 11"
Damper Rod measures 21"
Slider measures 10" from top to base of cylinder (above axle hole)
Fork Shaft measure 28.75"
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/13 1:53 pm

Can't help you on the damper tube or damper rod.

Fork tube: 22.5"
Slider tube: 10.25" center of axle to top (no threads)
Axle: 9"
Posted By: kommando

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/13 2:19 pm

Looks like someone added internal springs as per Norton forks, they sit on the top of the rod damper tube,guessing the extra spring has been added to increase the ride height and also give a 2 stage spring rate by design or more likely by accident.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/13 3:54 pm

I concur on the maybe increaded ride height with the long fork tubes Tom has.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/13 10:19 pm

Thanks guys. So, my next question is - if I don't have the correct basics to have a complete set, should I try to rustle up misc. parts to try to rebuild these forks so they are usable and presentable. Or, try to locate a correct set of forks in decent condition and rebuild them? I appreciate the advice
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/13 10:25 pm

Yes to both questions. Keep your eyes open for either the parts you need or a complete fork set. A complete fork set may be as hard to find as the various parts you need. Straight fork tubes will be difficult. They bend easy in a crash. And the yokes can get tweeked too but they can be straightened. May end up having to get a new set from one of the suppliers. The correct tubes have 4 holes near the bottom. Post a question on the BSA board about needing measurements of the damper tube and rod as some members may not keep up on this thread.
Posted By: Steve Attfield

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/14/13 10:19 am

Hi, Can anyone tell me what exactly an A50 with engine number A50DC is. I know its a cyclone, but what type.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/14/13 11:10 am

1965
A50 CYCLONE COMPETITION UK A50DC 101
A50 CYCLONE UK A50DC 101
Posted By: Steve Attfield

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/14/13 12:22 pm

wow Gary, that was a quick response, Does that mean that cyclones were made for the UK market, i was under the impression that only 94 were ever built and they were all for the american market and can you tell me anything on the history of the clubman. Regards Steve.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/14/13 8:50 pm

Steve,
Sorry, I'm not a clubman guy. There are others on the BSA board that are more knowledgeable about them than I. This thread is targeted at the competition models which includes the competition model Cyclone.
Posted By: VicCyclone

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/18/13 7:30 pm

AFAIK, the 94 refers to the number of Home market Cyclones sold in the UK in the 1965 season; many more Cyclones both in road and competition trim were sold in the US in both 1964 and 65. Cycle World tested one in 1964. In UK they were only £10 cheaper than the Lightning and cost the same to make so BSA didn't sell many. As far as the Cyclone Clubman is concerned, I seriously doubt whether BSA built even one despite listing it in the catalogue and price list for 1965. That's why I built one using a complete A50DC motor as a basis. The clubman kit only cost £4 extra in 1965. Not all Cyclones have the c/r box and I have seen one with an A50D engine number. That said I have only seen about 4 UK models. They are one of the rarest 60s BSAs.
Posted By: wbabojo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/22/13 3:30 am

You have a UK Cyclone. The C indicates a close ratio box was fitted when it left the factory. Many were cannibalised for parts for proddie racers, so if it doesn't have one at the mo, it's no surprise. I have A50DC 184, AND I'm guessing you have something similar? I believe if you wanted one from new, you had to tell the dealer, who would request one from the factory. In my ownership, my old girl has had all sorts of carburation variations, but apart from that, looks standard. At the mo, she's engineless, waiting for my new 90 deg. job to be finished (See other posts).
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/07/13 11:37 am

'67 East Coast Hornet listed again. Reserve not met @ $11,500 in July. Not concours, but very nice.

'67 Hornet East Coast model
Posted By: craigw

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/13/13 9:28 pm

I have read this thread completely several times and referred back to many times. It is a great reference for these bikes and the many changes to them.
About a month ago I ran across the engine cases for a 1965 Spitfire Hornet that I did not know I owned that were in a storage shed. I knew I had a gas tank for one (that I put up to keep it safe, and it truly is safe since I cannot find where I put it). So I started looking through my stuff and found most of the rest of it.
The problem I have is that I have two correct year frames and I need to find out which one is probably the original.
For some of you who have kept track of serial numbers, the engine is A65EC143X. The two frames are A50B542X and A50B779X. I am leaning towards the second frame as being correct. Thanks for any information in advance.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/13/13 10:10 pm

Both engines and the frame would be '64's. The C on the frame denotes close ratio gearbox. '65 frames started with #701. '65 engines start at #4001. Not sure what the X is for.
Posted By: craigw

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/13/13 10:57 pm

My poor thinking. I put in a X for the last digit of the serial number. I should have known better after having read the Y -Y thread. The serial numbers are all 4 numbers long.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/14/13 3:38 pm

Did the 66 and 67 Hornets have a filler cap with a plain latch and not a 'ridged or lined' latch? If so does any one have its part number please.
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/14/13 4:19 pm

I assume you are referring too the fuel cap, not the oil cap. A smooth latch on all BSA's. Ridged latches are aftermarket for BSA.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/15/13 3:41 pm

exactly! None of my parts manuals show a part number though.
Sid
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/15/13 5:23 pm

quite a few have appeared on UK ebay lately, but you will have to take your chances with the re-chrome, alternately as the buttons are never as bad as the rest of the cap, you can buy a new cap and swap the buttons over wink
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/15/13 8:51 pm

The cap is a complete assembly, so no specific part number for the latch. Rob one off an original.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/16/13 10:11 am

Originally Posted By: Gary E
The cap is a complete assembly, so no specific part number for the latch. Rob one off an original.
Sorry, should have stated, to rob an original button.

Centre stand Question:

I have seen a "hornet" centre stand on flea bay - pattern job, and wondered if it would be the same length as a "normal" main stand? or if it was taller. The only noticeable difference is that it is lacking the foot actuating lever.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/16/13 11:12 am

Since it is an aftermarket item, who knows whether it is built to original specs or not. With no lever on the side how does one get under the muffler to get it down?
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/16/13 12:16 pm

Pick at it with the toe like I have to with the A10 and early A65's without a lifting arm. There is so little ground clearance under the back tyre with the current stand that I can put the bike on main stand whilst still sat on the bike.

On another note I am considering fitting some TT pipes, I found your YouTube video's Gary, sounds good with the TT pipes!
According to SRM, the factory race bikes modified A10 silencers and mounted them to the ends of TT pipes. "Trevor" that was a member here had a photo of his bike set up like that.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/16/13 12:35 pm

Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
...There is so little ground clearance under the back tyre with the current stand that I can put the bike on main stand whilst still sat on the bike...

Weld some more material on the bottom of the stand legs. I'm doing that to the Firebird as it needs more height. Same situation. Also, adding a bit to the stops to give the stand a little more height.

Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
...I am considering fitting some TT pipes...According to SRM, the factory race bikes modified A10 silencers and mounted them to the ends of TT pipes...

Doesn't read like it would be very appealing to the eye. Also, with original shaped BSA TT pipes, the center stand cannot be used unless you cut it and make it narrow. No center stand on the West Coast Hornet model.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/16/13 8:19 pm

For anyone interested, there is a '68 Thunderbolt ($4,600) and a '66 Spitfire MKII ($9,000!) listed on the Cleveland Craigslist.
Posted By: Jon W. Whitley

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/17/13 6:40 pm

You could post the link to them on the Hot Links forum of this site...that is what that forum is for bigt

Hot Links


Originally Posted By: tomkatohio
For anyone interested, there is a '68 Thunderbolt ($4,600) and a '66 Spitfire MKII ($9,000!) listed on the Cleveland Craigslist.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/17/13 11:18 pm

Thanks - I will do that - I'm learning site etiquette slowly!
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/18/13 5:09 am

Originally Posted By: Gary E

Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
...I am considering fitting some TT pipes...According to SRM, the factory race bikes modified A10 silencers and mounted them to the ends of TT pipes...

Doesn't read like it would be very appealing to the eye. Also, with original shaped BSA TT pipes, the center stand cannot be used unless you cut it and make it narrow. No center stand on the West Coast Hornet model.


Sorry, just floating ideas. The bike with the cropped stand will go with outboard pipes. The TT pipes would be for a project bike/something a bit special, I like the idea of the pipes being completely out of the way.

Did you ever get the sump with drain plug working with the TT pipe setup?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/18/13 11:13 am

Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
...I like the idea of the pipes being completely out of the way....

TT pipes are definitely IN the way. Inboard or outboard the frame, all pipes are in the way of something.

Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
...Did you ever get the sump with drain plug working with the TT pipe setup?

See the attached image. No room for longer studs required for the thicker alloy sump with drain plug with the TT pipes. About the only method would be to weld a thin nut on the bottom of the stock sump. But since wet sumping is really not an issue on this particular machine, the change is a bit pointless. To remove the stock sump now, the left pipe has to be removed first.

Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/23/13 11:24 am

Hi Im a Newbie from the Uk about to buy a Hornet. I hope ! Would appreciate a look over by you experts but Im having problems posting photos, any help much appreciated. Maybe this will work sorry if they are all the wrong size Im sculptor on a Mac, should explain things… Engine number on the spare engine is A65HA14047 which matches the frame with an added Y. The engine in the bike doesn't match the frame. I guess you guys would suggest putting them back together? Thanks any advice useful.
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/ianrobertbishop/library/
Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/25/13 5:21 pm

Hi, anyone out there?...........
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/25/13 6:28 pm

YO BISHOP: I'm here! For some reason it took several clicks to get the pics, but I got em. What do you wanna know? Looks great!

We can start picking at it, though. Tank sticker looks strange. Ugly front tire. Concentric carbs. No bash plate. Wrong shocks. Ugly plug wires. No gaiter straps. You need that kill switch sitting down there on that spare engine. Is the timing side crankcase half newer than 67? Nice bike I wish it was mine.
Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/26/13 5:51 am

Hi Leon Bee ! Thanks for getting back. Didn't think my post was getting to your side of the pond! I first saw the bike at an importer over here. I originally went to see a 360 Honda CL Scrambler but then spied this in the shed and was smitten. As its USA market I had never seen anything quite like it here in the UK. Finding this forum was the clincher, the depth of information here is a bit of a gold mine, so with you guys help and what seems a good amount of parts here in the UK I am going to try my first restoration. I pick her up next week. I will keep you posted and try to improve my picture posting skills. Thanks for pointing out the kill switch ! Haynes Manual ordered as are a set of Whitworth spanners... can't wait to get her in my workshop ! Will post some more pics but if anyone sees anything mismatched then feel free to have a pick. Thanks Ian
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/26/13 11:44 am

So you haven't heard her run? Your neighbors are really gonna love those straight pipes.
Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/26/13 2:12 pm

She is not running yet leon bee, but I guess I may need to hand out the cotton wool, can't wait !
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/27/13 8:28 am

OH!
But when you get the bike out to some field or track and light 'er off, snarlin' across the field on song, EVERYONE who is used to the zing of 2-smokes is gonna be lookin' to see what monster has been let loose among the kiddies!!!

Yer neighbors MIGHT think someone's got a race vehicle, finally, and you might have a very interested audience!?

So, don't ruin it by lighting 'er off too early, or 'tuning' too late...... Or, revvin' th' heck outta it....
Makes yer 'tuning' window kinda narrow....
Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/27/13 2:43 pm

Ha ha ! Thanks for the advice Rickman, now I really want to hear it ! Will post some more pics once Ive got to grips with the upload. Cheers from the UK
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/28/13 5:37 pm

Delayed, but not forgotten. Just back from 10 days elk hunting.

Originally Posted By: Ibishop
...Engine number on the spare engine is A65HA14047 which matches the frame with an added Y...

Most likely the engine number is "-Y" at the end not "Y". It does make a difference. Don't ask why. Very long explanation.

Originally Posted By: Ibishop
...I guess you guys would suggest putting them back together?...

Yes, very much so. Higher resale value down the road.

Originally Posted By: Ibishop
...Would appreciate a look over by you experts...

As Leon has listed, plus hand grips look too long, no pipe support in front of engine, kicker too long, incorrect brake/clutch handle assemblies, and ditch the tail light. All minor items to deal with. A great start, as most of the Hornet specific items are there.

Also get a '67 Spares Manual. More than worth it.
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/29/13 9:00 am

So Gary, after 10 days of elk hunting, are you enjoying elk steaks? beerchug
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/29/13 11:24 pm

I figured I was going to have to explain. A 6x6.

Posted By: furymalc

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/30/13 8:21 am

Hope thats a BSA rifle Gary

Cheers
Malc
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/30/13 12:09 pm

Naw, it is not. A Browning A-bolt. American...well, sort of. But at least it's not made in China.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/30/13 7:51 pm

On ebay.

Spitfire Hornet Owners Manual
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/30/13 9:25 pm

Wow Gary - that's an awesome set of handlebars!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/30/13 9:56 pm

Yes, instead of calling old school highrise bars 'ape hangers', in this case they would be called 'elk hangers'?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/01/13 3:57 pm

On ebay:

'66 Owners Manual

389/689 Monobloc Carb. Set
Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/02/13 6:35 pm

My '65 Spitfire Hornet
Hi Guys! I haven't been on here for....hell, I don't remember the last time I signed in. Had to go back in the records as to signing in.
Question - I haven't ridden my SH in well over a year and a half. Just haven't had time. Who do you know and trust here in the upper midwest, who could restore my bike not to 100 point show quality but to 100% reliable riding status. I live in Michigan. I want to use the bike on the zillions of dirt roads in this area instead of buying something new. The bike has Panzon ignition, new tires and stuff like that. It is NOT disassembled. The fenders will need replacing and the gas tank will need finishing. I bought a steel tank a couple of years ago and never got around to finishing or painting it.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/02/13 7:29 pm

Good Grief Snowbob!
Yer gonna HAVE to keep me informed, as I would like to accompany you on these off-road trips, with my Hornet!

Haven't been seriously off-roading with anyone, for quite a number of years, and if you know the area, at least somewhat, all the better!!!
Brett
Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 8:58 am

Rickman, Out here in western Michigan there are zillions of trails. Not a quarter mile south of my house there is a two track going off to a cross country ski area. Go in there past the ski trail head and there are a bunch of two tracks. Go east on Hy. 10 out towards the town of Baldwin and there are countless well marked trails. Winter time, snowmobiles. Summer and fall, bikes, quads. I will have to admit Michigan does do a nice job of trail marking. The trails are all part of the Manistee National Forest. There's a motorcycle shop on Hy. 37 north of Hy. 10 that has a trail head out behind the store. North of there is Club 37, a nice restaurant/bar that has a parking area for trailers. Across the road is yet another trail head. Pal, you ain't gona' run out of trails, period!
Secondly, you wouldn't know of anyone who could get my bike trail worthy?
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 9:27 am

Owning BSAs most of the time since 1967, and now having 7 or 8 intact ones............I wish I knew how to ever get any of them to 100% reliable riding status.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 12:34 pm

Originally Posted By: leon bee
...I wish I knew how to ever get any of them to 100% reliable riding status.

Roger that!
Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 6:38 pm

BSA reliability? Ok guys, I'll throw this out to you. If BSA's were not reliable in one sort or another, how did the BSA company sell so many of them?
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 6:46 pm

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. There is no reason why a bsa can't be reliable,
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 7:00 pm

100%? Yer dreaming.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/03/13 7:07 pm

Yep. 100%? You're dreaming.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/04/13 4:07 am

Put it this way, I have tried to blow mine up with mostly stock parts - I failed, out of worry that it just might eventually do just that It's getting quality components and going back properly, I build my own looms and again fit quality electrical components - Not yet had one electrical issue.

My friends A65T has covered well over 50,000 miles, he has not had one issue with it. The old A65T I owned had covered over 120,000 miles with the SRM end feed, that bike was used for work (not by me) and did 70mph every day up the motorway each day. That had no mechanical issues (my works van isn't that good) the only electrical issue was because someone used 7amp wiring to make a loom up - which caught fire and I made my own loom from then on.

The is only a few reasons why a bike will break down:

1) poorly built
2)poorly maintained

I won't say the bike will run for ever and ever, but there is no reason why (more so if using modern upgrades) it can't have a similar life expectancy as a modern car. If you choose to use the archaic electrical components or engine components then yes - I completely agree with you.

But you must maintain it properly!

Gary, has any of your bikes been un-reliable?
Posted By: Ibishop

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/04/13 12:24 pm

Thanks Gary Much appreciated.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 3:45 am

Gentlemen, a quick question! I have two Hornet badges for the top of the tank. One has a white background and one is Beige. What are the differences about? Simply manufacture error or were they for different years?
Also how are the metal filler spouts fixed to the fiberglass tank? One of mine seems to be loose.
Cheers
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 10:09 am

White is the color background of the top tank transfer, like in the Wasp t-shirt above.

The filler neck is bonded in. Rough up the outside of it, clean it with acetone or similar and bond it in with something like JB Weld.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 3:59 pm

what do you think of this then Gary?
http://www.classictransfers.co.uk/pages/gallery/bsa-6712lc-65x67mm-pound4.25-each2905.php?p=50
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 5:11 pm

I've seen it. All I've ever gotten from them are white ones from that same item number. Take a look at their Wasp top tank transfer. Same background but comes in white. Also look at the Lightning Power side cover transfers. They show red background, but they don't come that way.

I've got an original 1966 blue Hornet tank with the original Hornet transfer on it and it is white. See page 61 of the original Hornet/Wasp et al thread.
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 6:55 pm

Hey fellas,

Been a while since I posted but thought I'd send an image of the now completed '66 Hornet I own. A number of concessions were made to make it a road legal ride and reliable. A couple of other parts I had on hand and will be swapped out in future to make the bike "correct" but plans for now are to register it and ride! Another matching numbers Hornet saved from obscurity.

Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 6:59 pm

A HUGE debt of gratitude to Martyn Adams of Martyn Adams Engineering in Adelaide, SA. John Mikutta of the BSAOCSA, Murray Johnson and Dave. Cheers!
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 7:09 pm

On the 'reliability' thread - I've gotta say the 1967 A65 Thunderbolt I own has always been a reliable bike. Apart from replacing tired/worn parts it has always been a first or second kick starter and has always performed well on longer runs (300km+)I attended the National BSA Rally a few years back and over 3 days of riding it never missed a beat, despite other more glamourous, expensive and more loved BSA machines taking up space on the backup trailers. It's rough but reliable!
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 7:23 pm

well said, and a really nice Hornet too
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/17/13 7:27 pm

Originally Posted By: Powderworks
thought I'd send an image of the now completed '66 Hornet I own...Another matching numbers Hornet saved from obscurity.

Thanks for posting the image of your Hornet. Another one rescued. What size front tire?
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/18/13 3:34 am

Now thats a pretty bike! I have the same model and are about to attack it. Having the frame straightened at present. I hope mine comes out as nice!!!!
Well done Powderworks. Doesn't it make you feel good to 'bring something back'
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/27/13 2:12 pm

A west coast model Hornet in the midwest that needs rescuing.

West Coast Hornet For Sale
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/01/13 4:34 am

Anyone here buy this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251386587535?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_422wt_1285
Nice tank!
Sid
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/14 7:18 pm

About time for a Hornet post before the thread gets buried. For Gary or anyone else: the front lower side pipe bracket, 68-2802. I've never touched a real one yet, just make my own. My question is on an original piece is either of the bends a compound one? I mean is it bent only at right angle to the strap, or is there any dogleg going on?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/14 7:41 pm

Glad you revived the thread.

No dogleg, nor right angle bends. Bent in the middle, then more at each end. But each ends bend is different. I've always found I have to tweek the bends a little to make both left and right sides fit correctly. Typical BSA. They both have the same part number.

Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/14 1:08 am

Thanks, Gary. The last ones I bent up got a little convoluted. Doing a slightly bitsa Spitfire Hornet right now, then next up is I got a nice set of A65H crankcases and an A50 frame for another "replica".
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/14 5:30 am

Wondering if BrizzoBrit is still reading the thread - Mate, you asked about the plating for the nuts on my Hornet, Martyn who did the bulk of the work on the bike said he has a bloke here in S.A. who does his work. He said to give him a call and he dig out the guys details for you (couldn't remember the bloke's trading name off the top of his head when I quizzed him about it) Martyn's a really knowledgeable bloke, does loads of work on rare bikes (Vincents, Broughs, Old racers etc...) but also knows 'bread and butter' Brit bikes back to front. Here's a link to his site, with his mobile number within...cheers - Dave.
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/14 5:42 am

The '66 Hornet has now landed in the National Motor Museum in Birdwood, South Australia. For anyone travelling through that part of Australia it's well worth spending a bit of time browsing their collection of historic cars, bikes, buses, trucks etc.

Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/14 5:44 am

Not to worry - the bike WILL be ridden and ridden regularly once I finally return to S.A. from my work in remote Central Oz.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/14 6:18 pm

My pal bought a Hornet project with this tank on it. Somebody did a lot of work, I almost hated to undo it. I'm guessing the indents are sanded off this one:

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/14 12:21 pm

"Bondo rod". Someone spent a lot of time modifying the tank back in the day.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/25/14 2:21 pm

Here the latest and greatest project coming out of my shop of Hornets and the Wasp. In between restorations, I've found some time to keep busy. With the batch of Wasp shirts, and now a batch of Hornet shirts, both of them can now have representation any where, any time...well, maybe not when it's below zero outside. Only the best for us BSA riders.

Posted By: Steve Erickson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/25/14 10:01 pm

So how do you find the polishing quality of the Hornet shirt to be, compared to say a Yamaha or "I'm with Stupid" t-shirt?

For soaking up oil spills, I'd imagine the 100% cotton would be superior to a synthetic acrylic blend, but how does it stand up to repeated tug-of-war use with the dog?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/25/14 10:32 pm

100% cotton is the only way to go to maintain our British bikes. These shirts are dual purpose. While wearing it (showing your colors), any flying oil while riding, and we all know there likely may be some, will get soaked up by the shirt very nicely. They shouldn't stay white forever.

And, the shirt will work fine for using the stomach portion of it to wipe that spilled gas off of the tank. Add a little spit and do some tank polishing with it too, of course both while you are wearing it. Stretches it out, so there is more room for beer under there.

With the dog tug-of-war, I suggest not wearing it during that event. But the dog spit may help wash out the flying oil from above, so proceed with said "mans-best-friend" event.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/25/14 10:53 pm

laughing
Posted By: Steve Erickson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/26/14 12:28 am

Yow, dog spit based cleaner additive... Where are the entrepreneurs, a marketing opportunity.

But sounds like a darned versatile t-shirt Gary.
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 3:04 am

OK, finally found this thread again - phew.
I've got a few questions...
background first: been riding the spitfire for a few years now, done about 8,000miles, its awesome but not perfect - doing regular 100+ mile loops around the great roads we have (ok they're a bit bumpy, but still great) at the top of New Zealand's South Island - We've got 2 sets of traffic lights before I hit the open road if I go south and none if I go the other way - ie I use first gear once and thats it. I've geared the bike up a little 21/44 and it still pulls top gear great, it is not over geared for the riding I do - but here's the problem - hills! if I drop off the cam in 3rd up a steep windy hill I'm stuck - no point changing down to second as the engine just revs its nuts off and still won't pull the gap to 3rd when I change up. I'm talking long up hill sections with dozens of 40-50mph corners - yes I know I've accentuated the problem by raising the gearing but the problem is always going to be there, no matter what the final drive.
Here are the options that I see and this is where I'd love some advice.
1/ change the motor
Fit thunderbolt/lightning cam - will this add some mid range?
Fit single carb head - doesn't look so good - and again does it actually improve the tractability of the motor? Don't mind sacrificing a bit of top end, no point having 50hp at the top end if you cant get to it.
DO both of the above.
2/ change the gearbox - anyone had any experience with close ratio gears in an A65?

any bright ideas? maybe I just buy a Thunderbolt and keep the Spitfire as a 'special bike' - always need a good excuse to get another bike.

thanks for reading all this - and love the T shirt
Mark
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 5:34 am

How do you know you have 50bhp? Alex has already said he has less than that on a race bike laughing

Try checking things like ignition timing, if it's too advanced it won't pull skin off a rice pudding. Then check mixture. You could recheck Tappet clearences, anything much tighter than the 8+10 and you will loose low end grunt.

What cam are you using? If it's the spitfire cam it is the same as all lightnings and later thunderbolts had, so unless it's timed up wrong ( don't trust the dots ) or its damaged- this won't be your problem.
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 8:28 am

Powderworks,

Cheers mate. link's missing, but you've mentioned your acknowledgements elsewhere. Rocking horse poop trying to find someone her in Brizzo to do odds and sods of Zn plating. Finally spent some time on my setup over Xmas and got rid of the bugbears in it and now it works well enough for me not to be ashamed of the final product. I'll follow up with Martyn if I need to. Cheers.

Hope it aint too hot out there.

Ray
Posted By: MarcB

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 9:08 am

Originally Posted By: MarkR
I'm talking long up hill sections with dozens of 40-50mph corners - yes I know I've accentuated the problem by raising the gearing but the problem is always going to be there, no matter what the final drive.


What's your RPM at 40 to 50 mph? Seems to me 40 is about mid-range, say 3800 RPM, while in 2nd with standard gearing. With taller gears, I'd be comfortable staying in 2nd, especially on a grade, until near 55mph. Am I mistaking? (Maybe my tach is way off)
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 9:51 am

21:44 is taller than what I am running on a Lightning which is 21:47 with that gearing, in 2nd if your doing 40mph your doing 4000rpm (50=5000 rpm) 21:44 would be more like 40mph=3700 (which matches Mark B's estimate) IF your in top gear then this would be about 2500 RPM - which is way too low to ride with and most likely cause more harm than good.

Note at this point, if the bike isn't pulling you ARE doing a lot of damage if you just bash the throttle fully open, you MUST change down.

By using a lower gearing you are increasing the available torque to all gears, and unless you really know what you are doing with these things I certainly wouldn't entertain gearing as high as 21:44! Instead I would stick a 19t or 20t max sprocket on the gearbox and run with that. Unless your running a small port head (which I doubt) any increase in port size will only make the problem worse!!!

But, before you do anything else, check the things as mentioned before.
Posted By: Arnstein

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 4:02 pm

MarkR. My Spitfire has done approx. 60 000 miles since restoring it 30 years ago..for many years now with the close ratio gearbox which will work very well keeping it "on the cam" through the gears,especially if you have the 10-1 pistons (hope you can buy 98 octane fuel). Your gearing is tall and will work best on the German autubahn..so maybe going back to the original Spitfire ratio 21-47 will be best?
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 8:13 pm

21/44 is WAY too tall.

I really like 19/42 on the early dual carb bikes. 20/42 was over geared, but was rideable even if it was a bit of effort to keep it in the power band. For the later bikes, 21/47 is close to the 19/42 of the early bike. Have 2 bikes, one each with each gearing and really like it.

CR gearbox is, IMO, amazing on the unit twin. grin Always the right gear, absolute treat in the twisties. But, first gear is tall, you will never get it moving from rest with 21/44 gearing. When I had 20/42, required a lot of clutch slip to get rolling.

Some people don't like the 21/47, they feel it requires too much shifting. IMO, it comes down to riding style
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/17/14 10:17 pm

thanks Guys - yes I knew I'd get some stick about the final drive but 1st feels good and top feels good - its the gaps in the middle that are a problem, someone may have lowered the primary gearing - who knows - and yes, I've been trying for 3 years to get a rev counter to work, always seems to be something more important to do. (gas tank is leaking again).
Mark B, you are bang on - I run it up to 55mph in second gear (will do 60 but my mechanical sympathy kicks in before then and thats genuine speed, most riding buddies with Smiths speedos would say I'm going 5mph faster - someone on the old thread said they take there's to 70mph in second!)so, around the corner, 50 - 55 - feels like its revving into the high 5's at that speed, pull out of the corner (ye haa) into the straight, wind it up a bit, change up to 3rd, bike feels like a sidevalve C10, slows down back to 50 maybe just under 4k. So option is to stay in second with the motor reving its nuts off or lug it in 3rd - neither is really a very good option. When I had the stock 21/47 gearing I had exactly the same problem only at 50mph instead of 55.
Great info about the cams being the same as the thunderbolt and Lightning AG - just what I need to know.
SO really I guess what I'm asking is ... can a spitfire pull the gap between 2nd & 3rd gear in normal riding contitions? ie without wringing its neck off (because mine can't) - or as AG suggests i may have some other issues - will definately check out all the basics
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/18/14 3:25 pm

just reading the posts from you guys again and it does appear that untill I actually know what revs I'm doing . . . I am shooting in the dark a bit - the bike is loud (sounds awesome) so maybe I'm mistaking 'loud' for 'revs' if you know what I mean, As I'm having trouble getting a cable operated tacho to work properly (bought 2 smiths 3:1 on line, and on my 3rd cable, nothing working so far) so I'm going to get one of those clip on electronic ones as a temporary measure just to see what's actually going on.
And AG... 50hp? - I've seen 54hp quoted for the Hornet - I think their dynos were about as accurate as their speedos back then - did they even have dynos or was the hp claim just a marketing tool?
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/18/14 5:51 pm

The HP was a marketing tool. A friend that worked at bsa said that few bikes would come close to the spec'ed output, many A7ss left the factory with less than 20BHP!! The storey was they would put the bike on the dyno, run it for no longer than they needed to and the unit was so old that it didn't even give accurate readings ( a bit like an ammeter swinging about was the expression given ).

They did have new dyno equipment but it was quite possibly only used I the competition workshop.

Another thing with the HP claims is that they were rated at either 7000 or 7500 rpm. I'll give triumph some credit here, they may have only quoted about 46bhp ( for a faster bike) but they rated it at a more sensible RPM ( about 6400 rpm).... Simply it flowed better at lower rpm's and that's why it was quicker!
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 2:50 am

OK - things are moving along - bought a $25 tacho with the pickup wire that wraps around the spark lead - actually seems to work - so, at 60mph (reasonably accurate checked the speedo with a GPS) the tacho is reading 3600rpm. does that sound about right to you guys?
Interesting things I've learnt:
Bike isn;t really pulling until 3800rpm, (although thats lower than I thought)
At 60mph only 300 rpm difference between 3rd and 4th
at 50mph nearly 800 rpm diference between 2nd and third
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 5:45 am

I know Gairy likes to keep this thread clear, If Mike Carter is reading. (if its possible) It might be better moving this to its own thread where it can get better responses.


Your info sounds different to a standard box. Some quick sums with my gearing 21:47

At 100mph = (roughly) 6000 rpm TOP GEAR
100mph = 6840rpm THIRD GEAR (ratio 1:1.14)
100mph = 9600 rpm SECOND GEAR (ratio 1:1.6)

You can half those figures for 50mph
3rd-4th = 420rpm difference
2nd-3rd = 1380rpm difference

You may well have a CR box???





Also with large ports, the bike won't come to life until about 4000RPM

A spitfire (as long as it still has the head tapering from 32mm - 30mm within the first 1/2" of the manifold) should carry more torque than a lightning across the range(if the port has been opened right up and has lost its taper you will loose a lot of power).
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 8:50 am

At 3600, most dual carb motors aren't making power, at all........ eek

If your riding around at 3600.....it is not if, but when you kill your engine.

Fix your your gearing.......
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 3:18 pm

haha - I think it would last longer at 3600 in top than AG's bike doing 9600 in 2nd
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 4:00 pm

That was a theoretical figure to give you an idea of RPM drop. Its simple maths to do initial calculations at a figure to the power of 10, ie 10,100,1000.

However, don't under estimate the benefit a free "high" revving engine will give you over one which is lugging around carrying heavy gear ratios. If you think along the lines of, the higher you gear the bike the more HP (I hate the term HP its very mis-understood) you have to generate to pull it. Alternately the more you have to be revving the bike to take the strain off the engine. No A65 has ever blown up from being revved out (unless it was badly built) I rev mine to its red line all the time, the reason it is being rebuilt now was because I wanted to fit new rods and I found that the original Devimead work was a joke and required correcting. It had oil starvation and still ran fine on the bit of oil it was circulating with.

Plenty of A65's have blown up from the throttle being opened when the bike has been in a position where it isn't turning over fast enough. I think John Healy would describe this as dynamic cylinder pressure, but if he is reading this I am sure he will give you a good explanation

Continuing as I wrote on the last post, this is hijacking Gary's thread somewhat of its original intention, and a fresh thread should really be started.

As a foot note, and this will upset a lot of people (possibly)

There are a lot of people that fancy the idea of riding a British bike, but are unwilling to take the time or advice to learn about them. It's these occasions where Brit bikes get a bad name for "exploding", breaking down or being leaky un-reliable bikes when really the closest the rider should get to a Brit (or any classic) bike is a poster on their wall, and if they want to ride the best place they could go to is a Honda/Yamaha dealership and buy something modern which is going to be more forgiving on such riding/maintenance techniques and where optional extras like super tall gearing are just not available for you to fudge the bike up. Alternately if you want something to thump around on - buy a HD

The more you learn the more you find you know so little about what there is to learn.

Im over and out on this subject unless some serious help is requested.
Posted By: MarkR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 4:28 pm

and...ta for the advice guys, will revert to stock gearing. I am listening.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 4:44 pm

Originally Posted By: Gary E
Here the latest and greatest project coming out of my shop of Hornets and the Wasp. In between restorations, I've found some time to keep busy. With the batch of Wasp shirts, and now a batch of Hornet shirts, both of them can now have representation any where, any time...well, maybe not when it's below zero outside. Only the best for us BSA riders.



Gary: I love all these shirts, but one of the self-made hardships of my life is I haven't worn a shirt without a pocket for 50 years.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/20/14 5:22 pm

I can relate.

I prefer a pocket as well...for my glasses...for about 10 years now. But, since most of my warm weather shirts: polos and t-shirts, don't have pockets, I have to either put them on top of my head, where I then forget they are there, and ask my bride if she has seen where I left them because I can't find 'em, or I hang them over the front portion of the collar or 'V' of my shirt by one of the temples, whereby I know they are there, as the corner/hinge of the them keeps sticking me in the 'adams apple' whenever I look down. No, I don't like or use those ropes/chains around the neck that skiers use.

In defense of the BSA shirts, some of them I made have the BSA logo on the front left chest (Lightning & Victor), so a pocket there is not applicable as the screened logo is 4" wide. I know, put the logo on the right side. Pocket t-shirts are too expensive.

I didn't bother with the BSA logo on the front of the Hornet and Wasp shirts since the designs already have it.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/26/14 11:30 am

You see this up to $7500?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181387705281?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I can't do a link to ebay, I guess. On there right now Hornet.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/26/14 12:03 pm

It's our own "hasbeen" selling his Hornet he acquired in 2012. The bidder got to the reserve. He wants it.

Page 55 of the re-constructed thread beginnings.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/27/14 12:41 pm

The Hornet sold for $7,500. One bidder.
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/07/14 11:40 pm

Hey guys, finally got the Hornet out of the Birdwood Museum here in South Australia (now I'm living back in 'civilisation') Have run about 200 miles on it since full rebuild and now playing with carb settings to get it running right.

Wanted to run some stuff by you blokes who are more in the know to see if I'm on the right track.

Carbs were initially supplied with 180 main jet, ran terribly...lumpy/stuttering pull at low revs, needing to be snicked up a gear to keep it moving and never really pulled above 1/4 turn in any gear. So, went up to 220 main...better but flat spot and stuttering appeared slightly higher in rev. range. Swapped out for a 280 and moved needle position to lowest ring on needle - still had some issues. Changed needle position to top ring and 280 main kept in...ran okay but would 'pink' on hillclimbs and lose power dramatically.

Now running a 300 main jet, needle on highest ring/clip position. Still pinking for first 30-40km's of ride on hills, but seems to calm down the longer I ride??? Have noticed throttle response is coming alive at higher revs and starting to pull harder as motor has loosened a little. Bike seems to come alive in 4th once I get over 55mph - from there on, it really wants to crack on. Albeit with one filter off (as it had fallen off during ride....) does it want better airflow thru the carbs too? Was running the standard old filter type.

I am running the straight through 'East Coast' pipes.

Will I need to play with needle jet settings, needle position again to iron out the pinking issues?

Forgive my ignorance, after running a relatively sedate (and crude) '67 Thunderbolt for years a twin carb, ope pipe beast is new to me. Loving it though - what a bike! The 2009 Triumph Street Triple R I also have has sat idle since getting both old bikes back on the road...much more engaging and enjoyable to ride and play about with.

Thanks in advance fellas!

Dave/POWDERWORKS/Adelaide, South Australia
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/08/14 12:24 am

You went from 180 main jets to 300 jets. That's quite a change. Original sizing for the Hornet carbs is 270 on the mains and the needle in position 4. So, you are not overly fat yet on fuel in the upper throttle positions. Kinda depends on what fuel you are running, what elevation you ride at, and what final drive sprocket you have on.

Also, having both air cleaners on, or the same of whatever for both sides is important to tuning.

Both Hornets and the Wasp here really come alive when they get up on the cam at over 4,000 RPM. They can pull the front wheel off of the pavement with not much effort.

As you know, do not load it up on the hills. Drop down a gear. Working it hard on the hills and getting pinging is a disaster in the making.
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/10/14 5:27 pm

Thanks Gary,

Still have the 280 mains and didn't feel much of a difference between them and the 300's to be honest. I think the bigger mains have ironed out the stutter but am thinking the pinking may be over advanced ignition (running a tri-spark set up). Have been told to back off the back plate slightly - will that be a counter clockwise rotation to retard ignition? Can't recall...been a while since I played with points, timing and the like.

The plugs pulled out reasonably clean after the weekend's run. A little sooty but no signs of running hot - electrodes fine, no 'ashy' residue.

I take your point about not loading it on the hills, keep them spinning has always been the advice I've had but was a little worried about over-revving a new motor. Will snick her down a cog on climbs now...I'd be a mess if I blew it this early in the relationship! hahaha!

Always good advice, thanks for the time!

Cheers
Dave/POWDERWORKS - Adelaide, SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Posted By: oldcrow

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/18/14 9:24 am

My engine no. is A50B83XX (x's are place holders). No W or R. "Two Alpha" thinks it is a 1965 Cyclone Competition. Do you agree? What is the proper clutch cable for this?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/18/14 11:48 am

The number is for the '65 model year. The "B" is representative of 5 different models of frames:

Lightning Rocket
Lightning Clubman
Spitfire Hornet
Cyclone Road
Cyclone Competition
Posted By: oldcrow

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/18/14 2:10 pm

Thanks. So the A50B engine number (not frame number) could be any of the above? The number does not have much to it. Some references indicate there should be additional letters. Any clue which of the models it could be? Any marks on/in the engine that would give more info?

I'd like to figure out how to order a clutch cable. I bought one from Barnett a while ago and the outer is too short or the inner is too long. It would be nice to have one on hand before digging the bike out of the shed and removing the cable.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/19/14 8:12 pm

No idea which model it goes to unless you have the original frame with that engine and/or you get a dating certificate from BSAOCUK. Narrow the models down by detemining if it is a 500 or 650 engine. Although a 500 could have been converted to 650. Also, narrow it down by the number of carbs it has (unless the head has been changed). The B on the engine only pertains to 500's.

Use the spares manual to get the part number for the cable. Order it by the parts number. That's the way the suppliers like it anyway; by the part number.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 10:45 am

West coast Hornet ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281368228545&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 11:17 am

Yes it is. Lots of potential. The frame needs work. Has the hard to find original TT pipes, and big oil tank. Can't tell if it has the Hornet rear fender, or if it is a matching number machine. Depending on the cost of buying it, a very good complete 'return to original' restoration with NOS and orignal parts would be >$9,000.
Posted By: Alex

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 11:20 am

Originally Posted By: wadeschields
West coast Hornet ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281368228545&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


"basically complete" laugh

Wow...that thing is a mess.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 11:23 am

I agree. Lots a parts missing, some hard to find. Lots of work ahead for the buyer.
Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 6:03 pm

ITs one of those bikes that is worthy of purchase. After all how many West Coast 67 Hornets are accounted for.
The parts that are missing are not that hard to find. Shit the pipes are worth and entry bid. \
The Rear Fender is reproduced and is real good. Front end is A65
Tank and side covers come up all the time. ET stuff is out there
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/14 6:34 pm

How about now on a bid to get the pipes now that the price is at $1,025 and hasn't met the reserve? What do you suppose the sellers reserve is?
Posted By: Shane in Oz

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/24/14 5:58 am

Originally Posted By: oldcrow
My engine no. is A50B83XX (x's are place holders). No W or R. "Two Alpha" thinks it is a 1965 Cyclone Competition. Do you agree? What is the proper clutch cable for this?


I missed this earlier, sorry.

A50B engines were only used in 1964 Cyclones and 1965 Cyclone Competitions, but the high 4 digit engine number seems a bit odd.
1964 started at 101, 1965 started at 507.
It looks very much like the different engine variants had their own number sequences instead of all sharing a common sequence like they did later.

A50B frames were common to all of the sport twins in 1964-65.
Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/24/14 10:48 am

I think his reserve is arond 1600. I only wanted to get the ball rolling and did not know it was you that had started the bidding.
Regardless someone should buy it and do it right.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/24/14 11:01 am

I believe the sellers reserve is over $2,000, thinking it is about $2,500. If I didn't have my eye on my next project, I'd give this one some thought.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/24/14 11:39 pm

Originally Posted By: Shane in Oz
Originally Posted By: oldcrow
My engine no. is A50B83XX (x's are place holders). No W or R. "Two Alpha" thinks it is a 1965 Cyclone Competition. Do you agree? What is the proper clutch cable for this?

I missed this earlier, sorry.

A50B engines were only used in 1964 Cyclones and 1965 Cyclone Competitions, but the high 4 digit engine number seems a bit odd.
1964 started at 101, 1965 started at 507.
It looks very much like the different engine variants had their own number sequences instead of all sharing a common sequence like they did later.

A50B frames were common to all of the sport twins in 1964-65.

Based on the information Old Crow provided, I thought it would be a 1965 Cyclone Competition. He had said that the two x's in the serial number were place holders, he didn't say that they were two more digits. I took that to mean that the second x was a period, or a decimal point. Four digits really didn't make much sense as that would have meant that BSA had produced over 7800 Cyclone Competition's for 1965, not much chance of that.

If we had a clear picture of his engine's serial number, that would really help.

Here's a lower numbered example from 1964 to provide a visual for what I've described. As Shane has mentioned, the 1965 Cyclone Competition engines started at A50B 507, so it looks like they only made 406 of these for the USA, and probably Canada, in 1964.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/02/14 7:50 pm

Originally Posted By: wadeschields
West coast Hornet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281368228545&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Auction ended at $1,400 (17 bids) reserve not met. We will see if he relists it.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/06/14 1:40 am

So I picked up some NOS Doherty levers for my 67 Hornet project but they are slightly different then the one I had . Plus the two screws that attach the brackets to the handlebars are allen heads. Other then the surface that touches the handlebar being longer then my original one they look right. I'll try to get photos and post them for comparison ..... I wonder if they changed along the way? Someone switched out the screws at some point? Or I bought repops in NOS boxes?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/06/14 9:41 am

A comparison of the two alloy lever types. In addition to the perch difference, the Dohertys lever is a bit thinner than the more robust Amals. Also the adjuster spring clips are different, so will not interchange. The chrome perch clamps are different with the Dohertys having their pointed logo on them while the Amals are plain looking. There are reproductions being made that look mostly like Dohertys.

Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/14 12:07 pm

Thats it !!! I bought the wrong thing.... I wanted Amal not Doherty .... Damn .... They cost a fortune too....
Posted By: KC in S.B.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/14 2:48 pm

Not that have a bike that uses those,......... but just want to understand.
So, Amals are correct on a Spitfire, and not Doherty? I think I have some NOS D's laying around some where. I guess they are worthless.............
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/14 5:52 pm

Originally Posted By: KC in S.B.
I guess they are worthless.............


Not according to Ebay shocked
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/08/14 8:11 pm

Originally Posted By: KC in S.B.
...So, Amals are correct on a Spitfire, and not Doherty? I think I have some NOS D's laying around some where. I guess they are worthless.............

The Amals are what originally came on the Spitfires, Hornets, and Firebird Scramblers. The Dohertys pass the six foot test though. At six feet away, you can't tell the difference.
Originally Posted By: wadeschields


Not according to Ebay

Roger that! Most ebayers don't know the difference between Amals and Dohertys.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/09/14 11:09 am

The eBay ad is an "ask it now" price with a "make an offer" thrown in and it's down to six hours left. If one was to use ebay as a price guide I would say this item is priced too high. I'm a little leary of using ebay for that as it is an auction type site and you have to get bids for the price to go up and sometimes it goes way too far up. Other times things don't sell for enough. Kind of like it used to be when the nickle ads were around, if you don't pick it up and look at the ads, in this case turn your computer on and look at the ads, you don't see the items. Just my 2c


Bill B...
Posted By: KC in S.B.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 12:22 am

Are These Repops???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/triumph-bsa-nort...d6a&vxp=mtr
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 1:48 am

They don't say it in the header but in the body of the ad they say Doherty "type". This tells me that they are copies.


Bill B...
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 10:21 am

"More then ten available" and the "new" tag seem to confirm this as well
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 10:52 am

As Wade says. The listing doesn't indicate "NOS", and the "new" in the listing gives it away. NOS Amals are still out there available. And as Bill says, they are a splash off of the Doherty style.
Posted By: KC in S.B.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 11:49 am

Kind of figured that. Just thought I'd ask, and also post the link for info. Obviously, there must be enough market for these to make it worth the trouble of making them again.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/10/14 11:56 am

Yes, and the price for a set is reasonable too. I saw several listings for them.
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/15/14 5:05 am

Hey guys, Classic Style Motorcycles in Victoria, AUSTRALIA have a 1965 Cyclone listed for sale. Appears to be in decent nick, though sporting a Hornet tank...not sure what else is mis-matched but one of you are sure to know more than me. Search the bikes for sale/BSA listing....

http://www.classicstyle.com.au/
Posted By: Powderworks

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/15/14 5:12 am

BTW, running in the Hornet here in Adelaide, South Australia and took this pic on Sunday for sharing. Running with the open pipes until someone tells me otherwise... wink

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/15/14 11:25 am

Originally Posted By: Powderworks
Hey guys, Classic Style Motorcycles in Victoria, AUSTRALIA have a 1965 Cyclone listed for sale. Appears to be in decent nick, though sporting a Hornet tank...not sure what else is mis-matched but one of you are sure to know more than me. Search the bikes for sale/BSA listing....

http://www.classicstyle.com.au/

Thanks for the heads up on the Cyclone. Looks to have a Spitfire Hornet tank and the very hard to find '64/'65 straight style high pipes. If I didn't have my eye on my next project, I'd look into this one, if the asking price wasn't so steep.

And great image of your machine.
Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/15/14 2:15 pm

KC
The Doherty are valuable: I have seen NOS in the box bring $175 -$240 on Ebay
Posted By: SOTV

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/14 11:28 am

Gary
PLS check your inbox I sent you a PM last week re our emails quite a few years ago !
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/14 11:45 am

I checked it. Nothing there from you. The PM box was and is not full.
Posted By: SOTV

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/24/14 5:50 am

Take it your still in the same address as a few years ago but need a contact phone number for UPS as I have a small parcel for you !
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/24/14 10:46 am

Same address since 2008. Sent you a PM. If it doesn't go thru, my e-mail address is posted.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/17/14 5:51 pm

Say, Gary,
Can you tell me the part # for the Hornet aluminum brake lever?
With the perch?

Is there such a thing???
And can you describe it, somewhat???

... I think I may have stumbled over one too easily...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/17/14 6:11 pm

Part 68-8719. The factory installed Amals, although Doherty made a similar one. Parts are not interchangeable. The handlebar clip is steel on both brands, and is plain on the Amals, the arrow logo on the Doherty clip.



Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/17/14 6:33 pm


And, even the spring clips are different. Amals on the right.

Posted By: zoe

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/17/14 9:56 pm

I installed little VW bug style inserts for the ends of the pipes on my '63 RGSS and they reduce the noise to a pretty tolerable and nice raspy note.
Bob
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/17/14 10:39 pm

Dratted......
Nope, that isn't what I've got...

The hand written part number on the bag factory stapled to the lever, has 7358-1080, or -1580, or -108J, or -158J... The last 4 are hard to read...

The clamping part is a wrap-around fixture, tightened with two allen screws...

A BSA cable with the large barrel end and flattened adjuster, fits very well into the lever hole and perch, doesn't turn, and the adjuster thumb nut fits well into the detents also.

The end of the lever has more ... turnout at the end? It isn't as straight as the two you show...

..... Wonder what this lever assembly was originally used on...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/26/14 8:00 pm

On Ebay

Kill Button Holder for Hornet, Wasp
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/08/14 3:52 pm

This is my latest finished project. Its a 67 East coast Hornet that's been set up for the road. Its not all original. Some parts were extras I had, some parts were from other years and models that I liked and some parts were not BSA. The engine was a total rebuild. It went to Ed V in MI. Ed did the needle bearing conversion on the timing side bush. He also put in a filtering system that filters the oil before it goes into the engine. I was also lucky enough to have a cast iron oil pump that Ed checked out for me. The filter is a HD type that fits under the rear motor mounts. Went to 9 to 1 pistons for the gas. I'm using the original monoblocs that I had resleeved at Lunds. I decided to start with the old Lucas stuff and then change over to the modern electrics once I have everything working right. So far so good. Its running well and its fun to ride. The reverse short megaphones make it all BSA.



Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/08/14 8:27 pm

And shouldered alloy rims too! Very nice. How's the seat comfort?
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/09/14 2:51 pm

Gary

I was always a big fan for those alloy wheels. Had them laced up with Buchanan's SS spokes. They really came out nice. Thanks for the front rim. I think it rides well with the solo seat although I like the hump seat too. I'm not long legged so the solo works perfect. It gives the bike a whole different feel. I don't what else I could do to it but I'm sure I'll think of something. The needle bearing setup was really a nice add on. When I had the cases put together just the weight of the rods would roll the crank. Will show some pictures of it and the filter setup. ljm
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/10/14 7:29 pm

I'm a shouldered alloy rim guy too. Putting them on my current flat tracker project.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 6:01 pm

Here are some of my street hornet inner workings by Ed V. This is the roller bearing installed before the cases were put together.


Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 6:21 pm

This one shows the cases together. With the worm drive installed. The end of the crank has a special fitting that goes into the crank.The inner timing cover has a fitting with an oil seal it mates into which goes to the oil filter. The bottow fitting on the right case goes to the oil filter. There were many calls to Ed's shop verifying which went where. If you didn't have it right it could easily seize up. Ed was good about all the calls.


Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 6:29 pm

This is the inner timing cover with the fitting on the outside and the seal inside which the crank fits in.

Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 6:36 pm

I made up the bracket and went by Ed's recommendation of mounting it in this position.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 8:20 pm

That's all very impressive. I'd like to have it on my machines; the ones that get ridden the most, like the Spitfire and the Firebird Scrambler. The Firebird is the best candidate since it has never been apart.
Posted By: plungerman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/11/14 10:17 pm

I live so close to EdV's and have heard so much good things about them and have never tore into a britbike motor before I want to cry when i think about it . I could have a motor that would last a lifetime maybe a couple of lifetimes depending on owner. I called a few months ago and was told to do my 66 Spitfire would be $2500.00 and i'd be put on a waiting list but could'nt pull trigger. I want to try my hand at it first i guess.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/12/14 5:27 pm

Gary that was what I had in mind since I will be riding it a lot.

Plungerman either way you go that BSA will be just fine.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/12/14 5:33 pm

Here was one last picture I should have put in. It shows the crank with both The end with the hole drilled in it and the bushing on the crank that fits in the needle bearing.

Posted By: Redd32

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/16/14 10:27 am

So tell me, does the hose from the outlet near the OPRV outside of the case loop around and go to the end feed in the timing cover?
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/16/14 5:21 pm

Redd32

The hose coming out of the case near the OPRV goes into the oil filter. This oil is getting filtered. Its the hose on the right of this picture. The hose on the left is filtered oil and its going into the inner timing cover. The second picture shows the route of the filtered oil hose returning to the engine through the inner timing cover. Hope this helps. ljm




Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/18/14 1:38 pm

This '67 Hornet is listed as a west coast model, but it is an east coast model with after-market TT pipes.

None of the bidders have done their homework.

'67 Hornet
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/18/14 2:53 pm

Hey Gary, from which pic can you tell it's not a WC frame? And isn't it worth maybe 4?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/18/14 5:29 pm

The picture showing the right side. The oil tank neck is short, typical of standard size oil tanks. The larger west coast oil tanks have a longer filler neck. Also, based on the answers to my questions from the seller, such as having a tool box, a 3.50 x 19 front tire, straight center fender brackets, WM2 front rim, and standard length fender stays. Most of those can be changed over the years, but the sure fire answer is the oil tank. It cannot be interchanged between the two different frames.

I suggested to the seller that he make a correction to the narrative regarding what model Hornet it is. As of today, he has not.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/18/14 8:56 pm

Now I gotta look at my oil tank necks tomorrow.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/14 12:23 pm

The ebay '67 Hornet sold for $5,300. The seller never corrected his listing from saying it was a west coast model for an east coast model machine. Someone is going to be very disappointed when they find out after it has been shipped to them. Depending on the buyers location, it could be up to about $700 for truck shipping.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/14 8:25 pm

Gary
You are correct the west coast oil tank neck is longer. I never noticed it until I checked both tonight. I had a question on the tach cable holder that fits on the TT pipes. I showed Carl the picture of it and he said he needed a part number. It seems you said at one time it did not list a part number for it. He said he probably had one but needed the part number. Been locating parts for the West coast for its restoration this winter and this part his been elusive for me.ljm
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/14 8:46 pm

Don't have a part number for it, but the clamp that it is based on is 90-3061. The clamp is narrow and the clamp band is a bit cupped (convex) in shape. The clamp has tabs on the ends to support a "D" washer and the 'T' style bolt. If he doesn't come up with the rightful one already made up, then use that style of clamp and weld a 1/2" long boss threaded for a short 1/4" x 26 bolt on the clamp opposite the clamping end to attach the cable to. Then get it re-chromed.

The problem with the whole thing is the outer black insulation on the tach cable where it is bolted to the threaded boss via an Adel clamp, still gets hot enough to melt unless a small piece of exhaust pipe heat wrap is put around the cable before attaching the adel clamp to it.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/22/14 7:41 pm

Gary
Thanks for the info. That should get me there. Will probably have to make it which shouldn't be that hard.ljm
Posted By: BikeVice

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/14 12:59 pm

Originally Posted By: ljm
Gary
You are correct the west coast oil tank neck is longer. I never noticed it until I checked both tonight. I had a question on the tach cable holder that fits on the TT pipes. I showed Carl the picture of it and he said he needed a part number. It seems you said at one time it did not list a part number for it. He said he probably had one but needed the part number. Been locating parts for the West coast for its restoration this winter and this part his been elusive for me.ljm


Does the clamp you're searching for look like this?



Raber's in San Jose had 3 of those inside the display cabinet at the front counter in new condition yesterday morning.

http://www.rabers.com/

Eric



Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/14 1:34 pm

That's the one. Fantastic! But that exact one is wider than the correct one.
Posted By: BikeVice

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/14 1:47 pm

That's a photo I found online searching for "BSA 90-3061". I didn't think to take a picture of the clamps at Rabers, but one or two of them had the cad plated cable clamp and hardware too. Give them a call, hopefully they're the correct diameter for your headpipes and not too pricey. Some of the parts in those cabinets come pretty dear.

Eric
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/14 2:30 pm

Originally Posted By: BikeVice
That's a photo I found online searching for "BSA 90-3061". I didn't think to take a picture of the clamps at Rabers, but one or two of them had the cad plated cable clamp and hardware too. Give them a call, hopefully they're the correct diameter for your headpipes and not too pricey. Some of the parts in those cabinets come pretty dear.

Eric

That image is one I took of one of my own cable clamps that I sold on Ebay. That clamp is a wider version of the actual correct one which is narrower and has a bit of a cup to it. The correct narrower one also is the style exhaust clamp that facilitates the 'T' style bolt so only one 'D' washer is required, and is typical to singles like the '68 Shooting Star. It's in the Shooting Star Spares Manual.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/14 7:41 pm

Thanks for the tip Eric! Looks like I'll be calling Rabers in the morning.ljm
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/14 11:12 am


Looks to be a "C" model. Cyclones are not very common.

'64 Cyclone "C" model
Posted By: goldstarfreddie

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/14 11:42 am

which one?




Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/10/14 8:20 pm

Fred
If I understand Gary's post it should be the second one. The narrow one. So far Raber's have not been able to come up with one. Is it for sale? I still have your phone number if it is. ljm
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 4:21 am

I checked my photobucket to see if I had a good shot with that clamp. This is the best I got, blow it up it's definitely the clamp on right in pic above
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 9:57 am

Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 1:19 pm

That "stand-off" clamp on the exhaust pipe looks like a good solution to the
problem of melted tachometer cable covers.

1969-74 Triumph 500 Daytonas from 1969 to '74 have that same problem.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 1:26 pm

Originally Posted By: Irish Swede
That "stand-off" clamp on the exhaust pipe looks like a good solution to the
problem of melted tachometer cable covers.

1969-74 Triumph 500 Daytonas from 1969 to '74 have that same problem.

But only if a piece of exhaust pipe wrap is put between the adel clamp and the cable.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 7:23 pm

Leon and Gary

Thanks for the pictures. They helped a lot. Talked to Fred today and he said the same thing.....no part numbers. The only one that fits is a c-15 exhaust clamp for a 250cc BSA. Rabers sent a picture of the clamp they have but it doesn't look like Freds. So things are looking up. Suppose to call Fred back in a couple of days to see if he has all the parts for it.ljm
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/11/14 7:36 pm

Leo,

I think the exhaust clamp is also in the '68 Shooting Star Spares Manual.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/12/14 4:34 am

Its great to hear some action back on this thread! A year or so ago we would get a page or two per week and I got the feeling every Hornet had been restored by the lack of interest!!!
I had some west coast Zorst rear brackets made to match a factory one I had and it was the same price to cut 10 as it was to cut 1 so I have a few spare if any one needs a pair. 68-2826.
Sid
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/21/14 12:27 pm

I still have mine sitting on the waiting list Sid. So not all have been restored. Two "new" projects have pushed back the hornet. I want to completely strip the hornet and do everything myself. So I need to be dedicated to that one. A 66 Victor and a 70 Firebird Scrambler that hopefully require less work to make them run are first on the list now. I am still watching this thread intently though bigt
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/20/15 11:29 am

Wade, has that Hornet gotten higher on the 'to do' list yet?
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/23/15 6:39 pm

Nah Gary. Im in the throws of a kitchen rebuild that is taking all of my time . Spare and otherwise.... Once that project is out of the way then I hope the honey-do list is what gets pushed to the (far) back of the queue.
Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/06/15 8:46 am

I'm glad the board is back and to be back myself. You would think at age 73 and retired I would learn to keep my hands out of business but no. A local guy had a marine service and storage business. He was not really a business man. His wife wanted to sell the whole thing to have some sort of a retirement income. A couple of us went together and bought the whole business. I spent the last two years learning the marine service and storage business. Also along the way I had a complete knee replacement. The replacement went well. The question I now have is do you know of anyone who has the plans I could beg, borrow or steal to build a set of starting rollers for my '65 SH? The operation went well but I don't have the strength I used to have.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/06/15 12:56 pm

Like this?



Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/06/15 8:55 pm

Gary, Can I get the plans to your rollers?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/06/15 9:04 pm

Originally Posted By snowbob
Gary, Can I get the plans to your rollers?

There are no plans. Part of it was bought, part of it was fabricated.
Posted By: snowbob

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/16/15 12:42 pm

WTB - for '65 Spitfire Hornet, East Coast model. I need the bracket that holds the right side, side cover on.
<bobthewoodcarver@frontier.com>
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/16/15 1:36 pm

The right side cover is held on at the back with a bracket that is part of the tool box.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:00 am

Hi all.
Having just picked up my first British bike, I like those before me dived into the web in search of information and landed squarely here in the Hornets nest. What an awesome repository of knowledge!
Prior to posting I was going to read through all the history and I managed to get up to page 20 on the archive but for some reason the link at the start to pages 1-64 is not working for me? Tried on several different platforms as well?

So my first question is, how can I get back into the old pages?

What I appear to have purchased is a somewhat modified 1967 Hornet.
Engine number is A65HA9432-Y and Frame number is A50C.620
Do these look right?

Look forward to sharing and learning.

Cheers
Adrian
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:19 am

Adrian,

Welcome to the Forum, the BSA Board, and especially the Hornet thread. And welcome to the realm of Hornet owners, in my opinion, a special breed.

Your #9432-Y is a mid-year '67 production engine. Dispatched somewhere around December 1966. The frame A50C.620 is an early '66 model year, dispatched somewhere near September '65.

I'll check out the page 1 link. Be right back.

You are correct, the link is not working. I'll send a note to John, who is master of that link. The first 64 pages of this thread has everything you could ever want to know about these machines.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:24 am

Thanks for the welcome Gary.
With the frame and engine dates that far apart does it mean I have a something put together from different bikes?
Not a problem for me as I purchased it for private scamble work rather than a resto.

Lets see if I can get a picture up!



Adrian
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:31 am

Thanks for the pic. We all like pics more so than narrative.

Yes, you are correct. Your machine has a '67 engine in a '66 frame, so the original '66 engine got swapped out for the '67. Really not much difference between '66 & '67 engines other than the rocker cover and a few other items.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:35 am

What did you find with the link to the 1-64 pages?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:37 am

Originally Posted By Gary E
...I'll check out the page 1 link. Be right back.

You are correct, the link is not working. I'll send a note to John, who is master of that link. The first 64 pages of this thread has everything you could ever want to know about these machines.


I sent a note to John to check out the difficulty.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:41 am

Apologies, I didnt see that you had edited the other post on the last page blush.
Past midnight here in Oz so will check back tomorrow.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/22/15 10:46 am

From John,

"Hi Gary,

Hope all is well with you as well.

My apologies, I've had the server offline for a couple of days as the video card went up in smoke. All's good now and it should be back online here momentarily.

Cheers,

John"
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/24/15 4:23 pm

Has anyone noted the Hornet or Wasp at the JWood and Co Cuba auction? Blue tank is a bit of a giveaway!
http://www.jwoodandcompany.com/2015/images/BSA.jpg

It has a Bates headlight on it.

Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/24/15 5:30 pm

Oh, looks inviting. Can't tell whether it is east or west coast model, although it has the east coast model high pipes. It could be a '66 Hornet with a blue tank. There were several blue Hornets produced. I have a blue Hornet tank as well as one blue side cover. Both are unmolested with original gel coat color and tank transfers. Would like to find the other side cover.

Or it could be an elusive '66 Wasp.


Posted By: pokie

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/25/15 7:28 pm

The BSA in question is a `66 Hornet. Wood posted the serial #s recently for a number of the machines. C`est la vie.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/25/15 7:39 pm

Well then it's a blue Hornet. If the tank is unmolested then it is one of 235 '66 blue Hornets dispatched approximately May 1966. The listed title shows a number of 12220 which would fit right in with the 5/66 date of the blues.

Anybody here end up with it, I'll buy the blue tank and blue side covers if it's got them.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/26/15 9:39 am

Here are a couple more pics of my new Hornet project as it was when I picked it up.
I have managed to read up to page 50 so far on the salvaged pages and learning something new about Hornets every night.
Obviously missing a lot of the standard stuff as I already knew. I believe they are XL 350 front forks and Koni rear shocks. No side covers. Tank appears to be original gel coat but no decal indentations. Pipe extensions are straight through but will be coming off. It runs and sounds great. Battery box made from an old Stop sign!
Frame appears to be missing the rear loops on each side where the rear footrests would mount? I havent seen another pic on the forum without them so assume they have been cut off some time in the past? Both footrest levers have broken studs and are pinned. So I have some work to do but looking forward to it.

Just read the old pages where you displayed the three tenors Gary. Would be hard to take them out and get them dirty! Fantastic job.





Adrian.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/26/15 11:02 am

Originally Posted By OzzyAdo
Just read the old pages where you displayed the three tenors Gary. Would be hard to take them out and get them dirty! Fantastic job.

Maybe so, but OH! to hear the three of 'em on song at the same time!!!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/26/15 2:52 pm

Originally Posted By Rickman
Originally Posted By OzzyAdo
Just read the old pages where you displayed the three tenors Gary. Would be hard to take them out and get them dirty! Fantastic job.

Maybe so, but OH! to hear the three of 'em on song at the same time!!!

I plan to do just that one of these days. Maybe this spring even. The three will be at the Columbia River Concour de'Elegence at Fort Vancouver in Vancouver, Washington in early August. The judges like to hear the vehicles run. Wouldn't it been fun to start up all three at the same time?
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/28/15 12:52 pm

A blue Hornet.. How interesting !!!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/29/15 10:29 am

Originally Posted By OzzyAdo
Here are a couple more pics of my new Hornet project as it was when I picked it up...
Frame appears to be missing the rear loops on each side where the rear footrests would mount? I havent seen another pic on the forum without them so assume they have been cut off some time in the past? Both footrest levers have broken studs and are pinned...Adrian.

Have you weighed the bike to see how it compares with an original? With the lighter front end, frame parts removed, and no side covers, it ought to be somewhat less.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/01/15 9:54 am

Haven't weighed it yet. Didnt even occur to me really. Its so much heavier than my Montesa's that a few kg's here or there wont be noticeable to me! Still has some major work to prepare it for the track so will be lighter still in the end.
Took the exhaust tips off and the original pipes have been cut short. They end about 3" before the rear shocks. Still looks better with them off though.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/01/15 11:29 am

Originally Posted By OzzyAdo
...Took the exhaust tips off and the original pipes have been cut short. They end about 3" before the rear shocks...

Ouch, if they are original Hornet high pipes. If they are, they HAD significant value.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/02/15 10:06 am

Originally Posted By Gary E

Ouch, if they are original Hornet high pipes. If they are, they HAD significant value.


Ouch is right. mad Definitely been cut right after the rear mounting bracket. I was going to take them off and fit some custom twins down the left side and maybe sell the originals but they wont be worth much now so may as well keep them.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/07/15 2:07 am

A VERY easy repair however.
Sid.
Posted By: OzzyAdo

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/15 9:19 am

Time for an update!
Warning to Hornet purists! This bike was never intended to be a resto project (just as well given what I found and what I am doing to it shocked ) so be kind.
Well I have had some time to poke around the Hornets innards and put some time in to make sure all was well before I took it out on the track for the first time.
Not pretty unfortunately but nothing that couldnt be fixed.
Gearbox was nearly out of oil. Replaced it.
Engine oil was reasonable for a test run will be changed after the first run.
Very limited steering lock to lock due to interference between the frame and the Honda triple clamps. (Dont know how previous owner would have even got around a track?) Picked up an old BSA set and with a bit of cutting and welding voila we have married the two together for a very nice setup.
Replaced damaged throttle cables and one incorrect carby throttle slide and adjusted.
Checked front and back brakes and added a rear brake return spring.
Checked all nuts/bolts were tight. (What a mess of various bolts that have been used!)
Fitted seat properly (only had 1 bolt in it), new plugs and was ready to go.
Tried to kick start but no luck. No spark. Went to check points and found it had a Boyer ignition fitted. Checked battery and it was low on volts so on charge for an hour.
And... fired first kick. No smoke and sounded pretty good.
By this time mates on a couple of Tribsa's and a custom Beeza 500 were already blasting around the grass track.
Joined the fray and had a real blast. It runs like a dream and sure is a handful to hang onto at full noise! Man does it get hot though. Not enough air flow and have to limit runs to 3 or 4 laps and then a cool down.
Post fun day improvements.
Dropped all the oil and cleaned out the tank. Installed a cartridge oil filter and replaced all the oil hoses with new. Ready for the next ride.
While the exhaust pipe was off i saw the full extent of the damage to the pipes. Lots of dents and the rear bracket has rubbish weld all around and is in the wrong location.
Next mod will be to tweak the electrics and get rid of the battery followed by methanol kits for the carby's.

Cheers
Ado
Posted By: pokie

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/15 9:37 am

Wood & Co. Auction,....Good Lord! Lookout Ebay...it`ll be awash with "stuff" emanating from this event for some time to come. Fascinating, and horribly compelling to watch,...like a grasshopper dropped into a chicken coop. Perhaps Brit Twit was the only soul there that got something for less than retail. "Incredible" describes the bidding. It was a blue tank Hornet, and scruffy but for the tank...sidecovers not found.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/15 10:07 am

Originally Posted By pokie
Wood & Co. Auction,....Good Lord! Lookout Ebay...it`ll be awash with "stuff" emanating from this event for some time to come. Fascinating, and horribly compelling to watch,...like a grasshopper dropped into a chicken coop. Perhaps Brit Twit was the only soul there that got something for less than retail. "Incredible" describes the bidding. It was a blue tank Hornet, and scruffy but for the tank...sidecovers not found.

Thanks for the update on the auction, especially the blue Hornet. Sounds similar to the big auction I went to in Lewiston, Idaho several years ago. Same high prices, with the same buyer (representing an absentee buyer) buying nearly everything.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/09/15 4:34 pm

West Coast oil tank on fleabay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301657277980?item=301657277980&viewitem=&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11021.m43.l1120%2F7%3Feuid%3Dbb91d63b9e69464fa65635a0f871cf7b%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Febaymotors%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D301657277980%26exe%3D11896%26ext%3D30527%26sojTags%3Dexe%3Dexe%2Cext%3Dext%26srcrot%3De11021.m43.l1120%26rvr_id%3D0&vxp=mtr

Sid.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/09/15 4:50 pm

It looks like a nice one in original condition.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/13/15 5:07 pm

Hey Gary,

Does the feed line on the west coast tank look like a larger diameter than a regular a65 tank or is it same?

Regards,
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/13/15 9:26 pm

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
Hey Gary,

Does the feed line on the west coast tank look like a larger diameter than a regular a65 tank or is it same?

Regards,

It is the same size as the standard A65 tank, just a different length.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/15 11:02 am


East Coast Hornet, Wasp, West Coast Hornet. A short video of the "Three Tenors" (as I call them) all started and running at the same time.

Music to my ears.


See And Hear The Three

Or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_qlNjFiZ5U
Posted By: thetylerguy

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/15 2:52 pm

Does anyone have any leads on a set of '66 Hornet high pipes? I've found some at Armour in England, but their reproductions, and at what they want for them, I'm not really looking to take a chance that they've done the homework to make them "bolt on"!
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/15 7:26 pm

Gary

Amazing. I never heard a Wasp more less 2 more Hornets running at the same time. They sound great.
Carbs synced and all started on key. West coast with the TT pipes has its own sound. Reminded me of the late 60's and early 70's when BSA was dominate in flat tracking.

ljm
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/15 7:33 pm

Originally Posted By ljm
Gary

Amazing. I never heard a Wasp more less 2 more Hornets running at the same time. They sound great.
Carbs synced and all started on key. West coast with the TT pipes has its own sound. Reminded me of the late 60's and early 70's when BSA was dominate in flat tracking.

ljm

Right on!

The west coast TT pipes do seem to have a deeper tone.

Maybe I should have had a couple more guys there so we could tweek all 3 throttles at the same time. That would then sound like the starting line at the track. Maybe next time.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/23/15 7:48 pm

Gary

I'm all in for that one. Post it so I can hear that sound!
ljm
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/26/15 8:52 am

[img]C:\Documents and Settings\Dave\Desktop\dave[/img] hello everyone .. i'm totaly new here, still reading the posts that Gary E started and learning a bunch .. i'm hoping this picture loads up ok .. i'm a bit computer challenged .. just got a '67 Hornet with a lot of fettling to do .. for starters i see the tank is wrong and i'll start looking for one .. also the colour is not correct .. as it will become my daily ride, i won't worry about it until i can make all things right .. so very happy to find this web site and hornet specific thread .. thanks everyone for all this great information .. nice to be here .. dave
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/26/15 8:53 am

i see my picture didn't load .. i'll have to figure it out ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/26/15 10:40 am

Originally Posted By dave macpherson
i see my picture didn't load .. i'll have to figure it out ..

Dave,
Welcome to the forum and to this thread. The image you want to post needs to come from a image server such as Photobucket. There are also other servers. Once the image is uploaded to the server of your choice, then its img link can be posted to this forum.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 8:42 am

here's hoping i do this right .. i uploaded a picture to photo bucket .. http://s391.photobucket.com/user/pickngrin_2008/media/1967%20Hornet/67hornet.jpg.html?o=0 .. i think i got it this time .. a bit on me .. a 66 years young canadian, nova scotia singer/songwriter/ cabinet maker .. bought my first bike in 1968, a ducati 160 monza jr. fell in love with 4 stroke singles .. i've had a BSA 441 Shooting Star (Victor engine) now for 30 some years .. now that i have this Hornet and my first twin (not counting a yamaha that burn't in a shop fire) i'm giving the shooting star to my youngest son .. ok .. before i write a book .. great to be here .. love the 3 tenors .. dave
Posted By: D.Bachtel

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 9:05 am

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 10:09 am

Dave,
You almost got it on here. Close enough. Thanks Don for helping it along. Nice image.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 10:44 am

thanks mr bachtel and gary E .. how do i get the image to come up and not just the link? .. i'm only up to page 10 in the old thread ..it'll take a while to digest all the great information! .. although i'm colour blind, i see some and know that the colour is all wrong and i need a proper tank .. the bike doesn't idle and i've not set twin carbs before .. is there more in the thread about doing that? .. thanks guys
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 11:18 am

Dave,

A good read on carb tuning:

http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html

Posting images. In Photobucket, with the image you want, at the right of the image highlight the IMG code. Most of the time, not always, putting the pointer on it and hitting enter or left click on the mouse will copy it. Then paste it in the message input box for your thread reply and the img code will be replicated. Photo tutorial at the top left of the forum page:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=169660&an=5#Post169660

Yes, your fuel tank is a standard metal A65/A50 model. The original Hornet tanks were fiberglass and of a different shape.
Posted By: D.Bachtel

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/27/15 11:27 am

Mr. Bachtel? I think that's what they called my father...

On the "share image" part of the PB page just click on the "IMG" line and wait for it to acknowledge that it's copied.
Back at the post locate your cursor, right click and select copy.
You were very close to getting it correct.

Carbs are easy, set one up and make the other match...

Don in Nipomo
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/28/15 7:05 pm

thanks gary and don .. i'll follow the carb instructions and make sure they both match .. is there a history of these hornets that would show how many were built and did they all go just to the states or were some shipped here to canada as well? thanks again gentlemen
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/28/15 8:18 pm

Originally Posted By dave macpherson
thanks gary and don .. i'll follow the carb instructions and make sure they both match .. is there a history of these hornets that would show how many were built and did they all go just to the states or were some shipped here to canada as well? thanks again gentlemen

The only way to determine qualities produced/dispatched is by reviewing the original factory production dispatch books held in the UK. I did that in 2010.

Some Hornets were dispatched to Canada.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 06/28/15 11:00 pm

here is vin number for data bank .. A65HA13852 ..
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/12/15 10:37 pm

hey guys .. i'm still lost as to how to get a picture here .. sorry .. i just wanted to show you all what i found trying to tune the carbs .. 2 different slides .. one stamped 2 1/2 and the other stamped 4, on the btm of slide ..
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/12/15 10:54 pm

this is left throttle slide, stamped 4
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/12/15 10:56 pm

<a href="http://s391.photobucket.com/user/pickngrin_2008/media/1967%20Hornet/slide%20right.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo353/pickngrin_2008/1967%20Hornet/slide%20right.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo slide right.jpg"/></a> right slide stamped 2 1/2
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/12/15 10:56 pm

frig .. still haven't got it yet ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/12/15 11:54 pm

Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/13/15 8:35 am

thanks gary .. i must be missing one final step ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/13/15 1:48 pm

Posting images. In Photobucket, with the image you want showing, at the lower right of the image hover over it with your pointer, highlight the IMG code. Most of the time, not always, putting the pointer on it and hitting enter or left click on the mouse will copy it. Then paste it in the message input box for your thread reply and the img code will be replicated.

Photo tutorial at the top left of the forum page:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=169660&an=5#Post169660
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/13/15 1:51 pm

Originally Posted By dave macpherson
...i just wanted to show you all what i found trying to tune the carbs .. 2 different slides .. one stamped 2 1/2 and the other stamped 4, on the btm of slide ..

Not common to have different size slides in a pair of carbs on the same bike.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/14/15 12:30 pm

i have a new 2 1/2 slide on it's way here .. there was so much extra air getting in, there was no way i could get it to idle down .. so taking the carbs both apart i found the problem .. also someone had taken a plumbing 90 degree fitting, brass and one end brazed over to stop fuel leaking. unsuccesfully of course .. the thread was NF and forced into the whitworth thread in the bottom of the bowl .. the proper parts are readily available .. why do people do destructive stuff like this .. oh well, she has been rescued
Posted By: thetylerguy

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/15/15 1:51 pm

Dave,

Welcome!

Great looking bike.

I posted a source on another thread for an alloy tank I bought from the dreaded "Indian" guys, that turned out to be a great deal ..... quality, price, and shipping wise.

Here's the link for the posting: http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=605258#Post605258

This is the link to Ajay from India on E-bay, it's from the Australian Ebay and in Aussie dollars but was considerably less in US dollars over PayPal:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-BSA-A65-S...=item1ea1608751

You WILL have to completely flatten the top of the filler to get a completely leakproof seal for the cap though. It was easy with a small, fine, flat file and some finishing emery cloth. Do it BEFORE you mount the tank though and it'll save you from having to worry about getting aluminum dust inside the tank.

Again, welcome!

Cheers,

Roger
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/20/15 10:24 pm

can someone help me out .. i've spoken with 2 different people about the carbs on my '67 east coast hornet .. both men have been into brit bikes since the late '60's .. both deserving of my respect .. one tells me that the hornet came with 930 carbs with a 2 1/2 throttle slide .. the other claims a number 3 slide .. which is the correct one? .. thanks every one ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/20/15 10:35 pm

Originally Posted By dave macpherson
can someone help me out .. i've spoken with 2 different people about the carbs on my '67 east coast hornet .. both men have been into brit bikes since the late '60's .. both deserving of my respect .. one tells me that the hornet came with 930 carbs with a 2 1/2 throttle slide .. the other claims a number 3 slide .. which is the correct one? .. thanks every one ..

Both of them have failing memories. Hornets came with handed Monoblocs. A 389-228 and a 689-228. Number 3 slides in both were spec.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/15 11:38 am

that's what i thought gary but a guy from SC who spent his first summer of working on brit bikes, putting lights on the Hornets told me that they came with the 930 concentrics with a 2 1/2 slide .. is it possible some came that way, maybe by request?? ..
and if not, should i still be able to use these carbs that are on mine? ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/15 12:08 pm

Not likely they ever came with Concentrics. Yours will run fine with them though. 2.5 slides ought to be the size to use.
Posted By: Steve Erickson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/15 2:13 pm

As I recall, 67 was a transition year for some bikes from monobloc to concentric (changed during the model year). Is it possible the Hornet was one of these models?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/15 5:46 pm

Originally Posted By Steve Erickson
As I recall, 67 was a transition year for some bikes from monobloc to concentric (changed during the model year). Is it possible the Hornet was one of these models?

I have never seen any Hornets, with concentrics as original, but definitely possible. As you know, the factory never stopped the production line for lack of a part. They just grabbed something else off of the shelf.

The '67 production numbers go into the 18000's. The last Hornets built end at about #15931-Y. The other 4 models (not including the Wasp) continued in production after the last Hornets were built (15932-Y into the 18000's). Of those 4 models, 3 of them were fitted with Monoblocs to the end of the '67 production model year. As a result, I am of the opinion that no Hornets were factory fitted with Concentrics.

Over 2,300 machines were built after the Hornets. Less the Spitfires (4 models, so estimate 25%), that leaves 1,725 (the other 3 models @ 75%) other machines that normally would have been fitted with Monoblocs that would have likely gotten the Concentrics if any Hornets were fitted with them first.

As a result, I am of the opinion that no Hornets were factory fitted with Concentrics.
Posted By: Steve Erickson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/15 6:14 pm

Makes good sense.
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/22/15 1:10 am

thanks gary .. these are R and L handed though i put a new slide , 2.5, to match the other .. still can't quite get her to idle and puffing a bit of blue smoke from the left side after i hold as low an idle as i can get, then give it a quick throttle .. also is missing a bit on same side .. i'll keep fettling ..
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/22/15 5:54 am

Replacing both slides with new ones would have been the best situation as the one old one may be a bit worn. That might help the idle a bit.

If the idling increases after the bike is good and warmed up, like after a short ride, say from their initial idle setting of 800 RPM or so to 1,500 or 2,000 RPM, or similar, then the carb bodies and/or slides are overly worn and would definitely benefit from being sleeved. Lund Machine Company in Washington does that service.

http://www.amalsleeve.com/index.html
Posted By: dave macpherson

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/24/15 7:59 pm

yippee .. got the carbs cleaned out and working good now .. idles nice and pulls hard !! .. i'm away for a few weeks of riding by the atlantic .. love the salt air .. later ..
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/18/15 9:00 pm

Gary,

I have been dabbling with my Hornet pile. I am fairly certain the rear fender is Hornet (short at the rear) but it is not dimpled for the tool box to fit. Sound like any Hornet fender you have run into?

I want to run side over...not above "modifying the tool tray......
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/18/15 10:14 pm


The first image below indicates the length difference of the Hornet fender compared to a standard. The actual length distance is dependent on the shape of the tail end. Some are more pointed than others.



The second image shows how many different rear fender types there are, on just the left front portion. The top example of the four has no indention, with the bottom three having various shapes of the indention for the battery tray. And the Hornet (& Wasp) didn't use a battery tray. As a result, it doesn't surprise me that your fender may not have an indention where you indicate.

Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 5:15 am

Thanks....the ident I was looking for is RH side for the tool tray. But none of your examples appear to have the dimple on the RH side either.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 9:30 am

Yes, I don't have any pics of the right side differences. Just was showing that there are several styles of rear fender even though the part number is the same for them.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 11:02 am

And of the 6 rear fenders here, 5 have the right indention, one does not.
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 12:04 pm

Details, details...... laughing

So it is a "typical" Hornet fender in my pile"
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 12:11 pm

Originally Posted By Rich B
Details, details...... laughing

So it is a "typical" Hornet fender in my pile"


It is as long as it is the short length and has never been trimmed. Hornet/Wasp (Spitfire Hornet/Cyclone too) fenders do not have the wire harness loops underneath, nor the large wire harness loop hole (for the harness grommet) up front left side.
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 12:19 pm

Short, never been trimmed, no hole for wire harness grommet, no support loops for harness, no dimples for battery box or tool box.

But the chrome sucks and over the years it has suffered the indignity of extra holes added to it. So it needs some cosmetic surgery.....
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/19/15 12:32 pm

Originally Posted By Rich B
Short, never been trimmed, no hole for wire harness grommet, no support loops for harness, no dimples for battery box or tool box.

But the chrome sucks and over the years it has suffered the indignity of extra holes added to it. So it needs some cosmetic surgery.....


It's a good candidate for a Hornet, Cyclone, Spitfire Hornet, and the elusive Wasp. I do know about extra holes. That sample pic previously of the Hornet fender had 12 extra holes in it.

Years ago, I sent a Hornet fender to the chrome shop for hole filling and a re-chrome. I circled the holes to be filled with a felt tip marker and included written instructions. Got the fender back all nice and re-chromed with the original mounting holes (even the ones with doubler plates on the underside) brazed shut and the holes to be filled wide open. I called them on the phone and I could hear them in the back ground blaming each other for the blunder.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/20/15 5:44 pm

Originally Posted By Gary E


It is as long as it is the short length and has never been trimmed. Hornet/Wasp (Spitfire Hornet/Cyclone too) fenders do not have the wire harness loops underneath, nor the large wire harness loop hole (for the harness grommet) up front left side.



So what would one expect to pay for a decent, not quite perfect, Hornet rear fender?


Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/20/15 6:20 pm

Depends on what "not quite perfect" is. If there are cracks that would bring it down. Dents down not as much. Extra holes to be brazed shut, not as much down as dents. Quality of the chrome doesn't matter much (unless the fender is a real cherry) as the fender will likely get re-plated. I sold the one in the previous image for $180. It had 12 extra holes, no dents, no cracks, all of the mount hole doublers were in place, and the rear rolled edge was fine.

What it looked like when I rescued it.

Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/21/15 12:08 am

Chrome is nice, two small dents by mid mount holes. Two small holes, maybe 3/16", just above rear mounting holes. No cracks and no cuts with pointed rolled end. Pics to come.


Bill B...
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/03/15 10:48 pm

Hi Gary,

I have come in possession of what looks like a fairly complete West Coast Hornet Frame. A65HA.8914

It has the large oil tank and all the tabs excepting the side stand lug. There are no tabs for the Hornet pipes on the back of the frame. There are dangling from the aft foot peg lug two longish pieces of metal which when turned up look like to be the right height for exhaust support. Also there are two shorter pieces from the same place that are perhaps TT pipe supports????

Here are pictures.

Exhaust supports?



It has a Bates headlamp installed bracket down which dented the front fender (arrgh)



Here is the oil tank which has the Odie clips. It looks like a wren made its nest inside!!!!



There are 4.00X19 K70's front and rear although the rear wheel looks to be off a Lightning Rocket (Narrow 19" rim like my 1964.)

The back one is worn out but the front one has good tread but is prolly unsafe for the track. Did I say track?



So tell me what I have I got? One the back is a 68 or 69 tail light assembly minus the lense. The fenders are rusted but look re-chromeable. As I said the Bates dented the top of the front fender but the rear fender is complete and un-cracked!

The winter project begins....

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/03/15 11:22 pm

Nice one Bill. Great find. I do not have that number in my '67 Hornet registry data base. It's been added.

The bracket you have your 2 fingers on, the one with the rounded end, is a rear exhaust pipe mount for the Hornet west coast TT pipes. It likely has a slight bend to it at one end. The mounting holes at each end are oversize to allow for mounting adjustments to the typical BSA "not a very accurate fit" system of parts. The other longer bracket doesn't look to be a BSA part. There weren't any tabs on the west coast frame for mounting the pipes. The inside of the pillion peg mount is where that TT bracket mounts to (as in your image).

Correct oil tank for west coast Hornet. Is there a small "L" shaped bracket at the rear lower area of the west coast tank for mounting to the threaded boss which in the frame? If so, good, as they are a bit rare to source. I've had to make a few for other WC Hornet owners.

The front fender, stays and center brackets look to be correct west coast. The rear fender would need to be shorter than a standard (lightning, Thunderbolt, etc.) fender to be the correct fender.

A lot of potential there.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/03/15 11:29 pm

So West Coast Hornets only had the TT pipes? I believe the there is a L shaped tap on the lower outside of the oil tank connecting it to the frame. Yep its there. It is hard attached to the tank and then the tab splits around a robber grommet which is bolted to the frame?

What was the stock rear wheel and rim size?
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/03/15 11:56 pm

Nice score, I've never seen one of those frames for sale. That outside strap is just scrap somebody added for some reason, but the dogbone shape bracket looks like genuine article.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/03/15 11:59 pm

Gary where's he gonna find pipes? That frame NEEDS them.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 12:09 am

My bad Gary. The frame number is A65HA.8941. Sorry. I also have a set of cases A65.HA9409-Y.

So TT pipes are hard to come by?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 1:26 am

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
So West Coast Hornets only had the TT pipes? I believe the there is a L shaped tap on the lower outside of the oil tank connecting it to the frame. Yep its there. It is hard attached to the tank and then the tab splits around a robber grommet which is bolted to the frame?

What was the stock rear wheel and rim size?


That's the correct oil tank mount tab then. Only west coast Hornets had the large oil tank. The frame is also specific to west coast model, as the oil tank saddle of the frame is different.

Rear wheel size is the same as all other A65/A50's: Jones 42-6361 WM3x18 with a Dunlop Gold Seal K70 tire. That tire is still available.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 1:29 am

Originally Posted By leon bee
Gary where's he gonna find pipes? That frame NEEDS them.

That is going to be a tough one. TT pipes; very, very rare. My TT pipe registry data base only has a total of 45.5 sets, 8 of those are NOS. There are a few possibles though.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 1:36 am

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
My bad Gary. The frame number is A65HA.8941. Sorry. I also have a set of cases A65.HA9409-Y.

So TT pipes are hard to come by?

I made the number correction in the data base. It now fits right in with a group of West Coast Hornets. Added the engine case numbers also. It may be a WC engine, as it fits in with some other WC's

TT pipes. See my previous post.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 9:40 am

The front rim to be a west coast would be a WM3x19 Jones 68-5558, not common to source. So, wider than the typical standard WM2x19 mounted on the east coast Hornet and other A65/A50 models. The west coast Hornet front tire is a 4.00x19, larger than the east coast Hornet 3.50x19 and other A65/A50 models 3.25x19. The 4.00x19 Dunlop K70 is no longer made, but there are NOS ones out there.

The Jones rim numbers are stamped in, so a little chrome polish or an SOS pad and water might clean the rim in the number stamped spot to see what you have.

Having the correct front fender, stays and brackets is a biggie. Nice find.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 12:02 pm

The front rim is wider than the WM2 on my Firebird next to it. So there is a good chance this is the original tire! I have access to another Hornet frame I will scarf the correct bits off. The rear axle came off an OIF I suspect and is loose and hanging out the right side. On a good note the rear drum spins freely but the brake plate is frozen. The rear sprocket is worn down to the nubbs. Prolly driven till it wouldn't go and then left for dead.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 12:30 pm

Yes, the rim does look to be a WM3. The front fender looks like it is on backwards.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 12:35 pm

Originally Posted By Gary E
The front fender looks like it is on backwards.


Isn't archaeology fun?! wink
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 4:03 pm

TT pipes. How about these?

http://www.classicmotorcyclespares.com/i...efault_Category

Kinda far ahead I know...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 5:01 pm

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
TT pipes. How about these?

http://www.classicmotorcyclespares.com/i...efault_Category

Kinda far ahead I know...

Those are the ones. Didn't know anyone was making them again. But read my posts in the first 64 pages of the original thread about repops not fitting of the repops set I had. There are some differences to the originals, as front and rear mounts are not the same.

What are your plans for the bike? Restore back to original or make a rider. I could check with a few sources on original TT pipes if you are going for a restoration back to original.

Note: I've got a note into John as I couldn't get the first 64 pages (a link located in the first post of this "restored" thread) of the original thread to load.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 5:53 pm

Well you know me - I like to Ride 'em.

I have visions of being on the Flat track at Aonia or perhaps some AHRMA vintage motocross (at the back of the pack). But I'm pretty sure a set of TT pipes are in its future.

Oogh the oil tank is a terrible mess. Oi vey!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 6:37 pm

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
Well you know me - I like to Ride 'em.

I have visions of being on the Flat track at Aonia or perhaps some AHRMA vintage motocross (at the back of the pack). But I'm pretty sure a set of TT pipes are in its future.

Oogh the oil tank is a terrible mess. Oi vey!

Well, a set of reproduction TT pipes might be better for you if you're going to race it. Especially MX. Those TT pipe stick down there in front and just under the frame. The first crash and the pipes are toast. That is why there aren't many of them around.

The Hornet might not be a good machine to do MX. Big and heavy, wouldn't handle multiple jumps very well. Maybe TT races where there is only a jump or two and turns both directions.
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 7:50 pm

Nice find Bill.......

But since that first BSA followed you home some time ago....I am seeing a trend.....hopefully we don't see you on reality TV about hoarding laughing

Like I should talk......... eek
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 8:04 pm

Man, those pipes look good even if you had to jack around some to fit them. I'd not ever seen them, bookmarked that site.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 11:19 pm

The high pipes get in the way though. The best pipes for running about are the Firebird headers. At about 5000 rpms they acually seem to get quieter as the bike gets on the cam. And I do have an extra Firebird hanger on the wall just sittin there.

No decisions made yet still thinkin'.

Gary - I know people say that the A65 is too big to be MX'ing. But I've ridden Beno Rodi's P11 Norton and I know it's not as quick as say a Rickman VR Montesa but it was still fun. Still it's a great sound and when you hit the straights well...

All I'm sayin' is if you are grinning it OK.

Rich - I know I'm a BSA nut. No apologies. Can't get enough of them.

Ps - Thank you Gary for this thread. This afternoon I copied every picture in it to file on my computer. Thank you!
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/04/15 11:36 pm

Originally Posted By Gary E
Well, a set of reproduction TT pipes might be better for you if you're going to race it. Especially MX. Those TT pipe stick down there in front and just under the frame. The first crash and the pipes are toast. That is why there aren't many of them around.


Funny I though they would be out of the way. Humm. But if I increase the front forks an inch and the aft shocks an inch there would be more ground clearance.

Originally Posted By Gary E
The Hornet might not be a good machine to do MX. Big and heavy, wouldn't handle multiple jumps very well. Maybe TT races where there is only a jump or two and turns both directions.


Luckily Vintage MX courses in AHRMA do not do jumps. They are more like Bumps. You must be thinking of a Modern Course Sir! That would be funny. Can you imagine an A65 coming off a triple with the rider doing a suparman!? But I digress and return to ebay. Rh folding foot peg ... check. Single Tacho binical mount...check. The oil tank worries me though.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 12:20 am

As you say, nothing beats the sound of a British twin up on the pipe. Maybe MXing without much of jumps would be ok. It's just the pipes are bit out in front of the frame so exposed to damage. MXing though no rocks to hit, just hay bales, so the TT pipes may be fine.

As long as the oil tank is not rusted thru, it ought to be salvageable. Maybe after its cleaned fairly well, get it boiled out at a radiator shop.

Responding to Rich's post, us old guys, can't own just one BSA.

Were you able to get into The original 64 page thread via the link in the first post of this thread to work? I could not get the link to work. Got a response from John G. about it:

"The Hornet thread is a bit of a problem at the moment, I'm in the Philippines and won't be home until the end of January. There must have been a power outage at home, unfortunately the best I can do is offer an apology. It will be back up as soon as I get home. Going forward, perhaps we can get Morgan to host those pages on the same server that the main forum is on. That would be the best and
is where they really should be, with good backup of course."


The issue with the reproduction pipes fitting, is the original pipes barely clear the frame and the oil sump plate studs/nuts. As in they practically touch both at the same time. Hence the reproduction pipes have to be "dead nuts" on accurate reproduction of the originals, or they won't fit. It's very hard to change a compound curve like what the TT pipes are shaped into. Heck, I had trouble getting an original NOS set to fit right. The left pipe is against the frame and the oil sump plate bots, so the pipe has to come off to remove the oil sump plate. The right side touches the frame as it curves under the right frame down tube. And that is after relocating the pipe front mounting tab hole at the front thru engine mount stud. The reproduction set of pipes I had, just wouldn't go on. Bad fit. Sold them, told the guy good luck on getting them to fit. Got them back. Sold them to a forum member that said he would not send them back. But maybe reproduction pipes are best to MX with. I'd hate to see a set of originals out there on the track getting thrashed.


Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 12:34 am

I actually got rid of a couple bikes this year. Traded this one to my old pal Bob:



Edit: realized tank wasn't level right after I took the picture.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 1:42 am

What I really want to know: BSA had a habit of just building what it thought the market wanted(?). And along comes Hap Alzina and he specks out the West Coast Hornet and BSA builds the thing and sends him bunch of them. Is there a story there or am I just romantisizing the whole thing?
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 1:50 am

Originally Posted By Gary E

The issue with the reproduction pipes fitting, is the original pipes barely clear the frame and the oil sump plate studs/nuts. As in they practically touch both at the same time. Hence the reproduction pipes have to be "dead nuts" on accurate reproduction of the originals, or they won't fit. It's very hard to change a compound curve like what the TT pipes are shaped into. Heck, I had trouble getting an original NOS set to fit right. The left pipe is against the frame and the oil sump plate bots, so the pipe has to come off to remove the oil sump plate. The right side touches the frame as it curves under the right frame down tube. And that is after relocating the pipe front mounting tab hole at the front thru engine mount stud. The reproduction set of pipes I had, just wouldn't go on. Bad fit. Sold them, told the guy good luck on getting them to fit. Got them back. Sold them to a forum member that said he would not send them back. But maybe reproduction pipes are best to MX with. I'd hate to see a set of orignals out there on the track getting thrashed.


I understand your concern Gary. But high pipes are just so in the way of tweeking the carbs. If I go the TT pipe route I try the repos first and do my best to make em work. At this point I don't exactly know what the motor is going to look like so I've got a ways to go.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 4:18 pm

Originally Posted By Semper Gumby
What I really want to know: BSA had a habit of just building what it thought the market wanted(?). And along comes Hap Alzina and he specks out the West Coast Hornet and BSA builds the thing and sends him bunch of them. Is there a story there or am I just romantisizing the whole thing?

Not much of a story. There was a demand for a bike that would handle the hot desert southwest style of riding. A machine that had more oil capacity for cooling and with a large front tire to handle fine dirt or sand. And a machine that got the pipes out of the way of burning legs and boots.
Posted By: Richard Phillips

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 6:33 pm

Bill,
Here is a couple of ideas for you Hornet. First off yes they are heavy, but big guys like yourself did very well on them and use the stock 17 tooth drive sprocket, the machine will pull like a locomotive.
If you run side pipes and use a matched set of left and right monoblocks floats turned in like the 67's its not hat hard to adjust the mixture and slide level screws or be bold and hang a set of GPs on it.
The other idea is just run the stock down pipes no mufflers. I don't see any power advantage in TT or up side pipes.
Add in that skit plate I sold you.
Good luck, send photos when its done
Richard


PS: I will shortly be building a 64 Spitfire Hornet. GP's, ET, up pipes with baffles, high flange alloy wheels. 19 tooth drive, Bates Lights. I gots all the parts, finished engine, wheels, chrome fenders, tank etc etc. Just need the frame and parts powder coated.
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/15 11:11 pm

Thanks for the ideas Richard on the exhaust headers. The skid plate lives on the Firebird so I will have to come up with another one. I was wondering about the drive sprocket - 17 you say! I would not have thought one that small but I'm learning things all the time about this project. I was thinking about some 32mm MK1's and putting the serious money somewheres else on the bike.

Thanks again.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/15 1:04 am

The usual original skid plate won't fit if the TT pipes are utilized. The 17 tooth sprocket is spec for the Hornet. The Wasp used an 18 tooth. One of those on ebay now.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/15 8:48 pm

Got enough to do one more Hornet. Got this engine I was building before getting distracted by off topic bikes:



Got these:



An almost perfect A50 frame:



And up here is some pipes and tanks and seats:

Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/08/15 11:26 pm

Great Score Semper !!
Posted By: Kris Koenig

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/17/16 10:21 pm

1964 handlebar dimensions?
42-4994 is the part number for the a50c and a65s/h in the 64 parts book.
Does anyone know the dimensions of this bend or could recommend a close replacement?

I have a 64 a50b that I would like to build up as close the cyclone competition model in appearance. Currently in pieces, but I have a good frame, wheels, and tank.
The cycle world article shows a wide but low bar, not a western bend.

Thanks in advance, great resources on this list,
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/18/16 5:07 pm

Don't know of a 42-4994. The Spares Manual lists a 42-4993 which is for the Spitfire Hornet and the Cyclone.
Posted By: Kris Koenig

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/18/16 9:49 pm

More mystery! My manual is labeled catalog no. 5118
I double checked and it is 42-4994

Baxter has a 4993 reference,

baxter 4993 cross

Looks close in shape to the old literature and pictures.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/16 7:17 pm

My Spares Manual #5118, which is a '65 publication, lists the bars as I posted previously, 42-4993, on both pages 68 & 69.
Posted By: Kris Koenig

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/16 10:34 pm

Mine too, Gary, but I was looking at pages 72-73, that lists the 42-4994
The tanks on pages 72-73 look like the spitfire and cyclone, that's why I thought I wanted the 4994 bar.
I bet I was referencing a 65 part number, maybe they forgot the asterisk ?
Thanks Gary
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/16 12:14 am

The line item on page 69 has a notation that indicates it is for 1964 (notation at the bottom of page 71). And you wanted '64 handlebar dimensions.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/29/16 2:32 am

Back from vacation and the number one priority is taken care of, the server with the original 64 pages is back up and running! See page 1 post 1 of this thread.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/29/16 2:22 pm

Originally Posted By Two Alpha
Back from vacation and the number one priority is taken care of, the server with the original 64 pages is back up and running! See page 1 post 1 of this thread.

Welcome back. Thanks for the server repair.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/10/16 1:24 am

Hi Semper.
Those aftermarket pipes look wrong to me. The originals have no straight section but as mentioned are a compound curve and simply look gorgeous. I have a spare set that I chrome stripped in preparation for repairing before I found a clean set that I would be happy to part with. They have no brackets on them and appear to be shortened a tad thus removing the rear mounts. There are very good photos that Gary posted that show you what they should have.I may also be able to get another set from a friend if he still has them but dont know their condition. Mine need attention though but no real problem to the right person but they are the real deal and a good place to start. If your oil tank turns out to be beyond repair, DONT throw it out, I also have a spare one of those if you are interested that could use some parts off yours. PM me to discuss.
Posted By: VicCyclone

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/24/16 5:42 pm

A rarely seen item currently listed on e bay:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121898609423?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/25/16 11:13 am

Decided to do a little necessary cleaning in the barn the other weekend while I was looking for some parts. Realized I had not moved the Hornet in years. So I did what I do and I rolled it out and took some photos. Also reorganized my box of part for it and put them in proper bins so I dont lose anything. I am still not happy with my work space enough to tear this baby down to the frame and be confident that nuts and bolts wont be getting mixed in and or lost to the mess that has developed in my barn. As soon as I can sell of some of the stuff that doesnt belong in the workshop space then I may feel more confident in starting this project.





Even tried a correct set of pipes on for size








Posted By: pokie

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/08/16 9:01 pm

Semper,....Have seen no post for months describing the progress in the saga of your WC Hornet, Is there news or is there sloth. Mucho interest in an update on the project,... at least for this lad.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/06/16 10:28 am

I keep seeing this guy selling bike . Looks nice but ....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162061179516?forcerRptr=true&item=162061179516&viewitem=

Anyone know the georgia resto shop? Just curious
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/06/16 11:10 am

Originally Posted By wadeschields
I keep seeing this guy selling bike . Looks nice but ....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162061179516?forcerRptr=true&item=162061179516&viewitem=

Anyone know the georgia resto shop? Just curious


Thanks for the post. It looks like the real deal, but only if it is matching number and original or NOS parts were used rather than repop replacements. Can't do one that way for that price.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/15/16 12:04 pm

Is Semper working on his West Coast Hornet?
Posted By: Kev.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/15/16 4:34 pm

Hi Gary, your message box is full....
Posted By: Kev.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/15/16 4:48 pm

Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/15/16 5:33 pm

Originally Posted By Kev.
Hi Gary, your message box is full....


Naw, it is not full. I just checked it.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 09/15/16 5:37 pm

Originally Posted By Kev.


Do you have a question about the West Coast Hornet pipe tach clamp?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/09/16 8:31 pm

Bump
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/15/16 12:55 pm

Hi Gary,

Saw your Three Tenors video. Very nice. I was wondering what set up you have for that electric starter? I am wanting to build something like that. I pick up my Hornet project tomorrow. Just frame and motor and a few bits.

Thanks
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/15/16 1:31 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
Hi Gary,

Saw your Three Tenors video. Very nice. I was wondering what set up you have for that electric starter? I am wanting to build something like that. I pick up my Hornet project tomorrow. Just frame and motor and a few bits.

Thanks

It is based on the Doc Z roller package with several modifications made.



Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/19/16 5:24 pm

Thanks. I will have to look into that. Got my 67 Hornet project yesterday. Now the fun starts. With it, I got complete dirty motor, frame, a real nice STD cylinder, extra head, rear wheel, Hornet fork covers, clean California Title, extra side covers and some unknown BSA tank. I have a nice Hornet tank already. Do the 10.5:1 Standard pistons exist any longer? I don't know if it is an East coast or West coast model. Numbers are: A65HA13692 (frame) and A65HA13692-Y motor.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/19/16 6:20 pm

Gary probably has the details in his head, but you can tell west coast from east by the oil tank mounting details. If a regular A65 tank fits, it's an east coast. If it is a west bike a normal A65 tank won't fit easily at all, would require some modification. Seems like there are some photos of this somewhere in the confused, disrupted Hornet thread.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/19/16 6:26 pm

I should make it to my shop tomorrow, could look at some frames and show you the difference if you're interested at this point.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/19/16 8:52 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
...Do the 10.5:1 Standard pistons exist any longer?..

Yes they do. I have several NOS sets, but they are a bit pricey, as they are no longer made, and hard to come by. If interested, contact me via PM, off of this thread, and I can give you the scoop.

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
...I don't know if it is an East coast or West coast model. Numbers are: A65HA13692 (frame) and A65HA13692-Y motor.

It could be either one. They are not interchangable with the oil tanks. With that number, it is possible it is a west coast frame as the numbers above and below it are west coast. Two ways to find out:

1) Read the posts in the first 64 pages of this thread. There are lots of images to view.

2) Post an image here of the oil tank saddle mounting area of the frame, and I can identify what you have.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/19/16 9:15 pm

I have a post in to John as the 64 page link would not load tonight.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/20/16 2:37 pm

Hey guys, sorry for the recent downtime, latest issue was a dead power supply after a power outage. She's back up and running now.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/20/16 9:34 pm

Two Alpha: It IS appreciated!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/20/16 9:55 pm

Very much so!
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/16 6:14 pm

Here are a couple pics of the oil tank mounting.





Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/16 8:52 pm

West coast maybe. Check page 2 of the old original thread:

Tried to link to it, didn't work. But it's on page 2.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/21/16 9:47 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
Here are a couple pics of the oil tank mounting.

As I suspected from the numbers you provided it is a west coast model frame. There is most likely a threaded boss in the frame on the right side for the oil tank rear mounting (blocked from view in the second image).

I will enter it in my '67 Hornet registry data base as a west coast Hornet.

The west coast oil tank is larger than the east coast model and is specific to the west coast model frame. The oil tanks are not interchangeable. All that info is in the first few pages of the 64 page original thread.

Other west coast model differences include a different front fender, its stays and brackets, wider front rim, larger front tire, and different exhaust pipes (TT pipes) and pipe mountings. All of that info is also in the 64 page thread.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/22/16 5:06 pm

Yes, it has the threaded boss in the frame on the right side. As I search for an oil tank, is there a way I can tell them apart. Can someone post a picture? I assume there is a tag on the oil tank that bolts to the boss.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/22/16 5:34 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
Yes, it has the threaded boss in the frame on the right side. As I search for an oil tank, is there a way I can tell them apart. Can someone post a picture?...

There are images of both styles of tanks in the 64 page original thread. West coast model oil tanks are difficult to source. I have one.

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
...I assume there is a tag on the oil tank that bolts to the boss.

It is not a direct bolt on arrangement. There is an "L" bracket that bolts to the tank then to the frame via a rubber grommet and spacer. Not likely you will find a bracket, NOS or used. Will have to make one. The details are showen in the Spares Manual (pages 44 & 45) as well as in the 64 page original thread.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/22/16 8:11 pm

Thanks Gary. I will PM you on the oil tank and pistons. I do have to wait until pay day though.
Posted By: Spitfire Ken

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/16 8:56 am

I have a set of WC pipes and have access to an oil tank and other parts you will need. PM me if you are interested.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/23/16 10:03 am

Originally Posted By Spitfire Ken
I have a set of WC pipes and have access to an oil tank and other parts you will need. PM me if you are interested.


Ken, Are the pipes NOS or used? I'll add them to the TT pipes database.
Posted By: Spitfire Ken

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/24/16 5:45 am

They are used.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/25/16 10:30 pm

Anyone have an interest in an A65HA bottom end? A couple hours from my house, I was up there collecting some HD stuff and this was in the pile. I kinda want it, (just for the numbers) but, man, I got so much of this stuff already. I'm gonna be like KC in SB; trying to send out crankcases for free if I'm not careful.

I checked it out and saw no exterior damage. Flywheels, etc., been exposed to weather. I guess much of the rest of the engine is there, no idea about what the pistons are. Email me at beaverbikes at gmail dot com if you care to. Thanks!
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 1:41 pm

Hello,

New to the group. Just got a 1965 BSA Hornet project. Pretty much a frame and engine at this point. You can see from the picture. But has a lot of potential. Looking for parts, can anyone point me in the right direction? Need big things like, tank, seat, exhaust pipes etc.

They seat mount was modified. Has anyone see anything like this before? I included a picture below. Im thinking it was for a desert style racing seat?

1965 Hornet

Seat Mount

Thanks!
Posted By: GrandPaul

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 3:56 pm

Welcome, Gregory, you maybe should have started a new thread of your own, as this particular thread is a resurrected one from quite some time back.

Check the "Garage Sale" section for stuff currently on offer by members, and see the vendor's section for various forum supporting vendors and sponsors.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 4:26 pm

I don't know anything about the desert sled models but the rear of that frame loop just doesn't look right.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 4:31 pm

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
Hello,

New to the group. Just got a 1965 BSA Hornet project. Pretty much a frame and engine at this point. You can see from the picture. But has a lot of potential. Looking for parts, can anyone point me in the right direction? Need big things like, tank, seat, exhaust pipes etc.

They seat mount was modified. Has anyone see anything like this before? I included a picture below. Im thinking it was for a desert style racing seat?

1965 Hornet

Seat Mount

Thanks!

Welcome.

If it is a '65, then it would be a Spitfire Hornet.

Some parts will be especially difficult to source. Original '65 Spitfire Hornet high pipes are quite rare as they are different than '66/'67 Hornet pipes.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 5:56 pm

Thanks for the info! The frame number is A50B.4523. How are they different? My dad has a 1967 but lives across the country from me.

See below for a few more pictures.

Right Side

Top

Left Side

https://photos.google.com/u/3/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipPpKoHW68aYKvHbbWrH41pfIVEIIIG4--FuXz3C

1967 Hornet
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 6:01 pm

Thanks for the info! The frame number is A50B.4523. How are they different? My dad has a 1967 but lives across the country from me.

See below for a few more pictures.

1967 Hornet

Right Side of 1965

Top

Left
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 8:29 pm

Welcome from me as well. Those last pics aren't coming through, for me anyway. Looks like you got plenty there to get started with.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 11:08 pm

All 9 of those image links didn't open for either. Best to use an image host like Photobucket or 500px.

That frame number indicates it is an early 1965 Spitfire Hornet (the '65 numbers started at 4001). Frame and engine number in '65 are not matching, so the engine number would be different. Supply that number and we can indicate what year the engine is.

How is what different? The pipes? Read the 64 pages of the original thread. They are accessed in the link in the first post of this thread. The pipe info will be in there as well as in this thread. Probably will be images of the pipes in there too.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/05/16 11:52 pm

See below. Took me a moment to figure out how to post pictures. The A65EC843. If I looked that up correctly that was a 1965 Hornet Engine.

[img:center][/img]
[img:center][/img]



Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 1:29 am

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
See below. Took me a moment to figure out how to post pictures. The A65EC843. If I looked that up correctly that was a 1965 Hornet Engine.


Yes, that would be right; real early '65 engine.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 1:36 am

The other one is matching numbers. If Im correct it is a 1967 ....A65ha12878
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 10:49 am

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
The other one is matching numbers. If Im correct it is a 1967 ....A65ha12878

You have 2 then, a '65 and a '67?
Is the '67 a west coast or east coast model?
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 12:44 pm

Hi Gary,

I have two. One my dad and I own and it is in Florida. Im in CA so dont get to see that one much. The one in FL has the orange tank above and is on the road running. That one is a 1967. The one that is a project is a 1965.

Thanks!
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 1:05 pm

I need to knock out the crank bush from the case. Is there a tool for that or do I have to make something up?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 8:52 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
I need to knock out the crank bush from the case. Is there a tool for that or do I have to make something up?

Awh, I understand now. The last image is of the '67 with the '66 Mandarin red (orange) tank. That would be an east coast model.

Are you sure about the HA 12878 number of it? According to my records, no 12000 numbered Hornets were built. The 12000's were Lightings, Thunderbolts and Royal Stars. Maybe it is HA 13878? That number would fit in with a lot of other Hornets that were built, as the factory typically built models in groups.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/06/16 9:05 pm

Hi Gary,

You are correct, it is A65HA 13878. How can you tell it is an east coast model?

Thanks!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 10:39 am

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
Hi Gary,

You are correct, it is A65HA 13878. How can you tell it is an east coast model?

Thanks!

It has the standard size oil tank.
Posted By: bodine031

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 11:25 am

Greg where is dad in Fl. I'm in Melbourne & have a 64 Hornet project going
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 12:27 pm

He is up in Jacksonville.

Gary - Is the oil tank and exhaust the only difference?

Thanks!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 12:40 pm

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
He is up in Jacksonville.

Gary - Is the oil tank and exhaust the only difference?

Thanks!

Lots of other differences. The main one is the frame is different. All of the differences, with images, are in the first 64 pages of the original thread. Access to them is the link in the first post of this thread.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 7:23 pm

How many west coast hornets were made?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 7:33 pm

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
How many west coast hornets were made?


Less than 800.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 7:42 pm

Do you know how many east coast models were made?

Thanks
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/07/16 10:19 pm

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
Do you know how many east coast models were made?

Thanks

More than a 1,000.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/08/16 11:35 pm

Wow, that few. I wish I had kept my original west coast. I paid $550 or so for it in 69. It's my avatar, but I took those stupid extended pipes off of it the second day. It was a bobber when I got it. The picture is the day I got it.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/09/16 12:43 am

Originally Posted By Roadwarrior
Wow, that few. I wish I had kept my original west coast. I paid $550 or so for it in 69. It's my avatar, but I took those stupid extended pipes off of it the second day. It was a bobber when I got it. The picture is the day I got it.

Where is that Hornet today? Hopefully someone has rescued it and brought it back to original.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/22/16 7:58 pm

I don't know where it went. It was last known by me in 69, in San Jose. I wish I had kept some paperwork on it. Sorry I did not answer until now, I've been out.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/30/16 5:07 pm

I've been re-reading the first posts of this thread, I'm up to page 40! I'm pretty primitive regarding computers and have a question: Is there some easy way to get this entire thing, (old and new), on a disc or a thumb drive?

Also, where is Leo?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 12/30/16 8:28 pm

Originally Posted By leon bee
I've been re-reading the first posts of this thread, I'm up to page 40! I'm pretty primitive regarding computers and have a question: Is there some easy way to get this entire thing, (old and new), on a disc or a thumb drive?

Also, where is Leo?


Not that I know of, but I'm fairly stupid about computers and such (I'm still in the 20th century using a flip phone - don't need more). What I have done is copy/paste the link to each page of the original 64 pages to an e-mail to myself. It is time consuming and I do it in groups. I still don't have all 64 pages copied yet. Then I can bring up the saved e-mail and hit on any of the links to load whatever page I want.

And yes, I haven't heard from Leo in awhile.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/01/17 2:23 pm

Gary and Leon
Been busy but finally got back to the west coast hornet. The frame is painted. The lower end has been rebuilt. Had to get the crank ground. I'm waiting on rims and rear fender to get polished and rechromed. Have almost all the parts. Came across another 67 tank with the indents in and found another set of TT pipes. They have a couple of small dents but would be good for breaking in the engine. The only thing I'm needing is a good set of side covers as mine have been trimed down. Glad to see the hornet thread is back.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/01/17 4:01 pm

Glad you're still around Leo, Happy New Year!

I'm building another 66, but using up leftovers and it isn't going to be too shiny.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/01/17 8:40 pm

Leo,

Good to see you back. I'll check my side cover supply. I've added your additional set of TT pipes to the data base.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/05/17 4:07 am

Hi Gary. These are the numbers of my 66 East Coast.
IMG[URL=http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/T160sid/media/1966%20Hornet/DSC_1317.jpg.html]
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/17 11:30 pm

Okay, well I stepped out of my wheel house and bought my first unit BSA. A pretty original survivor '65 Hornet popped up on the local craigslist. The price was reasonable and it came with some extras. Anybody need a ' 66 Hornet frame?


Pictures tomorrow. It might be still listed on the Portland/Eugene craigslist.

Bill B...
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/19/17 11:32 pm

Hi Bill,

I spoke to Reed as well. Looks like you go yourself cool bike. He mentioned he had an extra tank. Any interest in letting one of those tanks go?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/20/17 2:39 am

Just got home. Both tanks had issues. I left the spare tank which is a later one with the later lower cap.


Bill B...
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 1:35 pm

Okay, got it home and unloaded. Here's some pictures of my, new to me, '65 Spitfire Hornet.


















Obvious things are the lights and shorty muflers have been added. The gauges are wrong and the wheel rims rusty. Later finned valve cover. Electrics have been switched over to 12V coil/battery. Abox with all the original AC ignition came with it. It's been in storage since 1990 but the engine still turns over.





Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 4:53 pm

You did good. It looks fine. Mostly original. That kill button and the mount are hard to source.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 4:54 pm

So the tank needs repair. Unfortunately it looks like it got punched right where the left emblem decal would have been. I've heard and read about all the nightmares of the fiberglass tanks but seeing how this is original I would like to try and repair it. So I'm looking for a good fiberglass repair guy.

i bought the bike from the son who inherited it from his dad that did all the changes. When he or someone that was helping him move it they put the small tear in the seat. Too bad as it is a really nice original seat with a really clean pan and good foam.





There are two gauges and the speedo is driven off of the gearbox. Is this something added? I thought A65's were driven off the rear wheel and that Hornets just had tachs.






Bill B...
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 5:10 pm

When I took the tank off there was something rattlinng around inside. This is what came out.





The 12V ignition was done rather nicely at the time with all Lucas parts, coils, rectifier, capacitor and the setup looks like it was taken off a britbike or all original parts off the shelf.









The handle bars have been changed out but apparently is was easier to keep the cables attached to the throttle twist and choke cables. Here's the remnant of the cable guide that was mounted on the original bars. It's under the duct tape.



Bill B...

Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 5:26 pm

Originally Posted By Gary E
You did good. It looks fine. Mostly original. That kill button and the mount are hard to source.



Is that the original kill button and mount? I was wondering about that, I thought they might have had the round handlebar mounted one like the ones on Triumphs.

The coils and all the mounting hardware are clean and newish looking tho the coils do have the cracks.


Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/21/17 8:22 pm

No speedo originally on Spitfire Hornets.

Pieces from inside the tank are not uncommon. It's just left over resin or gel coat when the tank was built. Likely if you were to flush the tank with acetone and sheet rock screws, a bunch more would come out.

Looks like the original Spitfire Hornet wire harness got changed out to one for lighting and traditional coils/battery.

The kill button and mounting plate are original.

The primary chain engine sprocket is different on Spitfire hornets than standard. And there is a timing disc between it and the rotor that is not on standard models.

Looks to have an original Spitfire Hornet rear fender which is a real plus.

And those original air cleaners with outer dust guard are hard to find. I have a pair hanging on my shop wall.

Carbs look to be non-handed originals.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/23/17 12:20 am

Great Hornet! This one is my dads in FL, it is also a 1965. Not nearly as stock. Any idea what forks are on this one? I know they aren't stock. He needs to rebuild them so we are trying to find out.

Was the kill switch mounted on the left side opposite of the oil tank? When my dad got this Hornet it had a toggle switch there for a kill switch. He replaced it with one on the handle bar. See a picture below.


Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/23/17 1:07 am

On a Spitfire Hornet the kill button is mounted to a triangular plate which in turn is mounted on two of the top yoke handlebar bolts.

Hornets ('66/'67) is a button mounted in a chrome holder direct to the handle bar.

I can't tell what that last image is of.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/23/17 3:45 am

Those leading axel forks look to be Spanish or maybe Italian make. Your top tree has a provision for a fork lock that wasn't present on a Hornet.

The triangular shaped plate and kill switch Gary was referring to is in the top portion of this picture.





Bill B...
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/23/17 6:01 am

Bill,

The early unit twins had gearbox driven speedo's. The change to rear wheel driven was 66.

Looks like you found a nice survivor!

Congrats
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/23/17 1:11 pm

Thanks Rich. First guy that looked at it told the owner all that was wrong with it and then lowballed him. Said he'd come back in a few days and talk some more. He called me and I took the two hour drive South. Once I took a good look over I could see it was pretty complete and original, we negotiated a little on the price so I snapped it up. I know preunit stuff pretty well but have avoided the unit BSA uptil now. Is it the same inner cover with just the drive blanked off or were they different covers?


Bill B...
Posted By: BritTwit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/26/17 10:18 am

Boomer
Now that you have discovered unit twins, I'll take all that outdated pre unit junk you have cluttering up your shop.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/26/17 12:24 pm

Yeah, it is junk isn't it. So what do you think BritTwit, a couple o'hundred bucks? Marilyn could turn the old barn into a boutique shop and I'll hide out in the basement making wine.



Bill B...
Posted By: BritTwit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/26/17 4:30 pm

too late. I already made a deal with Marilyn for $100.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/26/17 6:30 pm

Originally Posted By BritTwit
too late. I already made a deal with Marilyn for $100.


laughing

Still remember being next to you and Marilyn at a fuel station in 2014 during one of the ride outs. I went pillion on back of a friends bike. But as mentioned above now you've found unit twins... you won't be wanting that very nice Goldie/clipper?? that you were riding that day laughing
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 01/27/17 12:28 pm

'67 Hornet for sale at Burton's in the UK. Part of a container full of machines from the US to the UK. At 4,000 GBP, that is $5,000 USD, which is a lot of green ($); but maybe in the UK where Hornets were not available back in the day, they can get that price.

http://burtonbikebits.net/barn-find-british-bikes-for-sale/
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/01/17 5:52 pm

GJ
Spanish forks are Bultaco. Possibly the wheel too. I'm no expert.

Gary E.
Just to clarify the statement about air filters. Was that style with the cover fitted to Hornets? What Years?

Cheers
Ray
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/01/17 5:55 pm

I believe they are Betor. The only marking on the forks is a thumbs up.
Posted By: shel

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/01/17 6:35 pm

They look Bultaco to me, the the Thumbs up is a Bultaco thing
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/01/17 8:11 pm

Originally Posted By BrizzoBrit

Gary E.
Just to clarify the statement about air filters. Was that style with the cover fitted to Hornets? What Years?

Cheers
Ray


Fitted to '64 &'65 Spitfire Hornets. '66 & '67 Hornets do not have them.
Posted By: Rich B

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/01/17 10:01 pm

Thumbs up stamped in the legs are sure sign of Bultaco. A fair number of Bul and Betor fork parts can be swapped around........
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/03/17 11:19 pm

Originally Posted By BrizzoBrit
GJ

Gary E.
Just to clarify the statement about air filters. Was that style with the cover fitted to Hornets? What Years?

Cheers
Ray



A closer look at the air filters.











Covers after a little clean up.





Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/03/17 11:35 pm

They don't get any more original than that. Complete with the original decals. Replacement original looking decals are available.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/04/17 1:58 am

So I'm trying to figure out the field in the air filter decal. Is it silver/chrome like, or clear, or maybe even a faded gold?

I've seen this decal on other filters and they could be black with gold lettering, or white with black lettering, and gold with black lettering. So which is it?


Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/04/17 9:59 pm

Here is what Classic Transfers has to offer for Conflo air cleaners.

http://www.classictransfers.co.uk/transfer-category/conflo/?region=british-us&alphabetical=a-c
Posted By: VicCyclone

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/05/17 10:53 am

Bill

Go with the R/H filter in your picture above. I have 2 pairs of these filters NOS in the wrappers. The backing field is faded gold with black lettering. Unfortunately none of the classic transfer offerings matches this, however from personal experience they will make transfers to order.

Good luck
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/05/17 11:33 am

Originally Posted By VicCyclone
Bill

Go with the R/H filter in your picture above. I have 2 pairs of these filters NOS in the wrappers. The backing field is faded gold with black lettering. Unfortunately none of the classic transfer offerings matches this, however from personal experience they will make transfers to order.

Good luck


Good one Vic. I have had Classic Transfers make custom stick-ons. The last one they made for me was for the Wasp tank.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 4:19 pm

Gary, do you have a part number for the tach bracket? I have parts book 5118 but it does not list it.


Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 5:22 pm

No part number here. I believe the '64/'65 Spitfire Hornets did not have a tach.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 5:30 pm

Really, I thought I saw a parts page you listed in the old posts that showed it as item #8. Maybe it was the later parts book.


Bill B...
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 6:02 pm

It is in the early posts, page 11.


Bill B...
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 7:58 pm

That would be the parts page for the '66/'67 Hornet. Different than for the '64/'65 Spitfire Hornet. There are a lot of differences between the '64/'65's and the '66/'67's.
Posted By: Greg J.

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 8:29 pm

Gary - Do you prefer the 64/65s over 66/67s? Curious to know what people think of the different years.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 8:40 pm

Originally Posted By Gregory Joseph
Gary - Do you prefer the 64/65s over 66/67s? Curious to know what people think of the different years.

My signature gives it away. With "The Three Tenors" it is a no brainer for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_qlNjFiZ5U
Posted By: bodine031

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 9:50 pm

My 64 Hornet T/S inner cover has no tacho guts and a block off plate.
Posted By: bodine031

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 10:17 pm

Hey Gary the east coast Hornet in the video and the guy on the rollers with it looks like a guy wearing a grey and black vented jacket riding that bike in a Motor Cycle Classic magazine a few years ago!! Is it still a show queen or are you out zoom'n around on it!!!!!
Great video. Weather here as been great mid 70's and I have been whoopin my 64 Mutt Street Tracker Hornet and getting the nobbies all dirty!!!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/07/17 10:29 pm

None of my machines are show queens. The video is me and the magazine article is me. I keep them in top notch condition. They get started and ridden on a regular basis...weather permitting. They need to be spanked on occasion. But, I don't ride some of them in the mud, especially the Wasp, as it's too rare and valuable to waste it away.

Bring your Hornet to Oregon where the weather is real foul at times to get it dirty.
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/08/17 4:46 am

Gary,

Thanks for the update on the filter fitments. So for '66 flat back, black painted air filters then?

Cheers
Ray
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/08/17 10:38 am

Originally Posted By BrizzoBrit
Gary,

Thanks for the update on the filter fitments. So for '66 flat back, black painted air filters then?

Cheers
Ray

'66/'67 were chrome filters on the Hornet and Wasp.
Posted By: BrizzoBrit

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/10/17 7:24 pm

Thanks Gary
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/12/17 4:15 pm

So Gary let me just clarify that. For 66, the front and the back plates are chromed as well obviously as the perforated bands?
Sid.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/12/17 4:38 pm

Originally Posted By SidSnot
So Gary let me just clarify that. For 66, the front and the back plates are chromed as well obviously as the perforated bands?
Sid.

The '66/'67 air cleaners had black front and backs and chrome perforated bands. The '64/'65 Spitfire Hornets had chrome fronts, backs, and perforated bands.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/18/17 1:42 am

Thanks Gary.
Next question.
What is the difference between the US (68-6536) and the UK (68-6535) variants of the 6 tab front guard and the one specified for a 66 Hornet 68-6544?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 02/18/17 11:46 pm

Originally Posted By SidSnot
Thanks Gary.
Next question.
What is the difference between the US (68-6536) and the UK (68-6535) variants of the 6 tab front guard and the one specified for a 66 Hornet 68-6544?

The UK 68-6535 has mounting holes on top along the centerline of the fender for the UK style long curved vertical license plate "crotch slicer").

The 68-6544 is fitted to '66/'67 west coast model Hornets. It has the 6 tabs that are splayed out at more of an angle (about 45 degrees) for tire clearance. The west coast front tire is the large Dunlop Gold Seal K70 4.00 x 19, so it needs more clearance than the standard 68-6536 east coast model Hornet fender that has the 6 tabs in a more vertical position for the mounting of a 3.50 x 19 K70 tire. The 68-6536 is also what is utilized on all of the other same year A50/A65 models.

The west coast model also uses a wider rim, the WM3, for the large 4.00 tire, as opposed to the standard WM2 rim on the east coast model for the 3.50 tire.

Images and narrative of the front fender differences as well as tire sizes (3.25, 3.50, 4.00) are contained in the original 64 page thread with the thread link provided by John in the very first post of this current thread.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/07/17 7:13 am

Thanks Gary.
The more I dig into these front guards the more confused I seem to be. Both the 66 and 67 parts manuals show the front guard stays going over the top of the guard and I am guessing these are the UK version?
Virtually all images of 66 and 67 (even west coast) show a standard stay that bolts straight to the guards front tab.
When setting up my 66 front guard it seems to sit way too high with about an inch of daylight (probably over 2 inches of actual gap) between the guard and the 3.60 tire. On a recent trip to my local bike breaker he gave me 3 says of differing length.
The stays I have are 12 inches between the bolt hole centers. Strangely these are the same on my 67 West Coast but according to your old post on page 6 (Restored) Gary the WC are longer.
What are the length please of the East Coast ones and does anyone have a 66 parts book image of the standard setup with numbers? I also had about 5 front guards there and there seems to be a great variance in guard radius and tab positions.
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/07/17 2:45 pm

The manual drawings depict the front stay that applies to the Spitfire, regardles of whether it is export or UK. There is no manual drawings of the straight style front stay. For the east coast model Hornet (as well as all of the other model machines, except the Spitfire) the front stay length, as well as the rear stay, the length is 12 inches (center of hole to center of hole). The stay is straight. The west coast model Hornet stays (all 4 of them) are 12.5 inches hole-to-hole and have one end that is slightly bent. Same with the center bracket and tab; the west coast brackte is bent on one end for the 4.00 tire clearance and the fender tab is bent outward.

East coast stays = 12 inch length, straight end, 3.50 tire, all fender tabs are straight (fender is the same as all other model machines) (stays are the same as all other model machines except Spitfire)

West coast stays = 12.5 inch length, bent end, 4.00 tire, all fender tabs are bent out (stay usually has an "H" stamped on one end)
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/25/17 3:38 am

Can anyone point me in the direction of service notes that cover trouble shooting ET ignition. I used to have them but do you think I can find them?
Sid
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/25/17 4:30 am

Cannot help you right now as I'm at the annual big BSAOCNC Clubman's Show in San Jose this weekend.
Posted By: SidSnot

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 03/25/17 11:32 pm

Found it.
Its here for those interested.
Sid

http://www.britishonly.com/pdf/triumph/Servicebulletin/1967/TriumphServiceBulletin_102367_67-14.pdf
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/01/17 2:58 am

I have a line on a '64 Hornet that is pretty much complete but no title. Is it worth the risk? I'm in Ohio

Thanks,
Tom
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/01/17 3:43 am

Originally Posted by tomkatohio
I have a line on a '64 Hornet that is pretty much complete but no title. Is it worth the risk? I'm in Ohio

Thanks,
Tom


It would be a Spitfire Hornet. That is what they were in '64/'65.

Hard to say without seeing some images of it and knowing the cost. Worth the risk? At $1,000, most definitely. At $15,000, probably not. Titles can be gotten. Definitely need a legit (signed by the seller) bill of sale though. Maybe even have the bill of sale notorized. Original '64 pipes and rear fenders are hard to source, especially the pipes. I wouldn't do it without them as I would be restoring it back to original.
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/01/17 7:24 pm

Thanks Gary,
Once I saw it, I walked away. Couldn't see any engine numbers at all. Seller was asking $1,500 and it was in pretty bad shape by my estimation.

Need to put the $ in to my Hornet!
Posted By: tomkatohio

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 04/02/17 3:17 am

I posted some pics on the main forum
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/17 2:11 am

Having a Bit_ch of a time timing the ETS on my 67 Hornet. I followed all the instructions on aligning the rotor with the peg plate, setting the points, but I can't get any spark at all. Even went through Magneto Man's excellent thread on it. And I just think I figured out why. It has a Triumph ETS rotor, not a BSA ETS rotor. It has the Triumph 3 holes S, M, R, and three extra that someone put in.
Does anyone have an extra ETS rotor I can buy for the BSA Twin? Or, will the Triumph rotor work? The "S" hole on the rotor is 37 Degrees BTDC, which is the same as the "R" hole on a BSA rotor.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/17 2:24 pm

I had several ET rotors, all with recharged magnets, but sold them off last year.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/17 3:44 pm

Thanks Gary, I am sure someone will have one.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/09/17 8:17 pm

Bob, are you sure it's the rotor? I would think even at 37 degrees you should be getting a spark, but I'm just learning about these A65's and my '65 Spitfire Hornet had been converted to DC coils so I'll be watching this thread more.


Bill B...
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/10/17 5:48 am

So this means the timing holes are in slightly different position? I didn't know there was a difference until roadwarrior brought the subject up. I pulled out some of the rotors, both 2 hole and 3 hole versions. Measuring as closely as I could between the relevant holes and the key slot in the hub, I couldn't find a difference. Also could not visually find a difference in the relation of magnetized segments and the drilled holes. Would these differences be so slight? Couldn't the timing be adjusted to compensate at the points plate?

Does Magnetoman address any of this in that great long ET thread? I'm not strong enough to reread it all just now. Anybody that knows something, please jump in.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/10/17 6:41 pm

He talks about it. The Hornet is timed at 37 degrees. I had the pin in the "R" hole in the back of the stator per the workshop manual. The "R" hole in the Triumph stator is at 41 degrees. I think I can use the Triumph stator if I use the 37 degree hole marked S. I would rather use the correct one for the hornet. I tested my stator as best as I could, and it seems ok. Maybe it's got a problem. The points have to open at exactly the point where the stator is producing maximum voltage in order to generate the spark. At 4 degrees difference (41-37) I think the points won't be open when the voltage is at max. That's what I understood from Magneto Man's thread.
Posted By: terry jasper

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/10/17 11:33 pm

Looking for a cyclone. Hello everyone. i am located in Arizona. I have been hunting around for a Cyclone competition. If any of you run across one that you intend to pass on, I would appreciate a heads up. There is one on ebay in the parts section right now. Pretty major project, not to mention it is in delaware and I am in Phoenix. I am tempted to make a reasonable offer on it. I would love to hear what some of the more educated folk have to say on it.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/13/17 10:18 pm

Roadwarrior

John Healy gave me these values on a BSA rotor with the 3 holes S=37 degrees BTDC
M=39 degrees BTDC
R=41 degrees BTDC
I used the S hole for the ET. Don't know if the triumph is different.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/13/17 10:29 pm

Good info Leo. The shop manual indicates to use the "S" hole.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/13/17 11:50 pm

Leo: Don't have my parts here to look at. So you have a 3 hole version on one of your Hornets? And it starts okay?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/14/17 12:26 am

All of the ET rotors I've dealt with have the three holes.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/14/17 7:38 pm

All the old ones I've had, from dragging home different junk, I mean projects, had the 2 holes in the rotor. Then I started gathering a few with the 3 holes after I found how well my 67 starts and runs with the refurbished ET. Been meaning to convert a couple other bikes back to ET.

My 67 , nothing has ever really been apart so I don't know about the rotor. Roadwarrior got me started worrying I'd collected the 3 hole ones pointlessly. All but one of the old 2 holes one I got have loose centers.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/14/17 11:23 pm

Leon and Gary
All mine have 3 holes. When I was a kid I thought I thought the R on the rotor was for "race". Until it wouldn't start.
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/15/17 1:56 am

Leo: what have you got these days? I have my 66 that I've had for 40 some years. And my bone stock almost original West Coast 67. I sold a really pretty 66 Hornet replica to an old friend, now I have another replica 66 kinda mocked up.
Posted By: ljm

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/15/17 11:55 pm

Leon

Right now I'm working on the 67 west coast hornet. Been waiting on the rims for polishing and rechrome. Finally got them back and are waiting to get them laced up. Bottom half of the engine is done and all parts are powder coated. Cylinders are bored and the head has new guides, new valves and new springs. This one has been a slow process but its starting to move. Getting the 65 and 66 hornet ready for the Springfield mile the end of this month. They have a vintage bike section and it keeps getting bigger each year. Will be posting pictures of the west coast hornet rebuild as soon as I get something to show.

ljm
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/16/17 12:51 am

Maybe some pictures after that Springfield mile? I always thought by now I'd have enough spare time hit things like that. Not yet. I rode my 66 today, first time in 3 or 4 years. Never anything wrong with it, but I started robbing parts off it. Felt good, runs strong. This is one I want to change back to ET now that I have some nice stuff stashed.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/16/17 1:09 am

Speaking of west coast Hornets, do yal have the same issue as I do...can't get the oil drain plug/filter all the way out as it hits the frame tube after it is unscrewed about 3/4". Have to unbolt the oil tank at its rear, but can't kick the bottom outward to unscrew the plug until the smaller 5/16" oil line is removed which is up against the forward frame tube. Even with the hose removed, the hose spigot in the tank is in the way up against the frame tube. A real design nightmare.
Posted By: Roadwarrior

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/17/17 3:15 pm

I am going to use the "S" 37 degree hole on my 3 hole rotor. My manual must be older because it only shows the 2 hole rotor, with the "S" being 34 degrees for the 500, and the "R" for the 650 being 37 degrees. The 3 hole rotors have the "R" at 41 degrees. Here is a picture. It is getting close, but is not show stock. I had a west coast Hornet in 1969, and I seem to remember that most of these were modified within a month of being sold. I went East Coast pipes for 2 reasons. 1. I like the look better, and 2. My side stand lug is missing. I went with the B44 Front fender, because I had one, and it fit nice. I still have to paint the side covers, so they are not on yet. The heat shields have been installed since the picture. I plan to use it on the street. Hopefully that will quiet it down a bit. The foot pegs are a little funky, still working on that.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 05/17/17 3:43 pm

I know someone that has a set of used TT pipes for sale. They need work...scrapes and dents.
Posted By: Tom A65LR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/20/17 7:23 pm

The link to pages 1-64 will not work for me. I would like to see Gary's post on restoring fiberglass side covers.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/20/17 7:40 pm

Originally Posted by Tom A65LR
The link to pages 1-64 will not work for me. I would like to see Gary's post on restoring fiberglass side covers.

I will contact John G. to reset the server that has all of it on it. It's his server.

Then, the next problem to resolve is Photobuckets nixing of all of the images...everywhere. Once John resets the server so we have access to those first 64 pages, then I will have to go find the posts that you are interested in, and reload those particular images to a different image hosting site and reload those image links to that particular thread page. I will do that.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/21/17 10:47 pm

John has reset the server, so the first 64 pages link in the first post on this thread now work. I will now attempt to find the posts on the subject of restoring the fiberglass covers and replace the associated images.
Posted By: Tom A65LR

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/22/17 2:13 am

Thank you, Gary. They are on page 24, in case you have not yet found them. I am grateful for help.

Regards, Tom
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/22/17 5:53 pm

I was not able to re-create the images on the original first 64 pages. It doesn't let me edit. What is there, or not there, is locked in stone. So PhotoBucket has really f...ked us again. So, what I have done is re-created here the whole post on that original page 24, plugging in the original images. Any one that has a desire to have the same applied to any of the other posts I made in those original first 64 pages, I will do it upon request.

Page 24 Post #354129 1/21/2011 11:57AM

SIDE COVERS AND FIBERGLASS RESTORATION

Does your Hornet, or for that matter any model, fiberglass side covers look like this (note the five layers of paint added over the last 44 years)?

[Linked Image]

OR THIS? And look at the stress cracks in the gel coat that will always continue thru every layer of re-finishing if not repaired first. And a real brilliant idea by someone for the location of the switches and ignition switch.

[Linked Image]

And you want them to look like this?

[Linked Image]

It can be done with work. Here is what has been done to get them ready for primer and paint.

[Linked Image]

After stripping all layers of paint of via sanding, stripping agent, or medium blasting, The stress cracks are ground out thru the gel coat to the underlying glass. Be careful how far you go as the glass is thin in places. The glass is not glass cloth mat but typically shot into the mold from a course chopper gun, so the covers have various thicknesses in places. The ground out areas are then filled with an appropriate 2-part glazing putty.

[Linked Image]

Some repairs require glass work. With the covers below, mounting holes needed to be rebuilt, a broken cover (in the typical front spot) needed repair, and the lower portion of the cover was too thin to hold up well in the future. Also, the top corner was reinforced on each where it is in constant contact with the frame (even with the buffer in place). It is usually a source of stress cracks in a new finish.

[Linked Image]

After restoration, hopefully the covers will hold up well for the next several years...until the next guy decides to shortcut the re-finish process with an old can of spray paint from his garage.
_________________________
Posted By: leon bee

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/17 1:30 am

Kinda feels like the end of an era.......or the end of something. anyway. We all used photobucket and recommended it to others. This big, long thread was a goldmine for anyone working on mid-sixties A65s. Kinda happened just as I am moving on to flathead Fords as my chief obsession. Gary: hope you are doing well, and many thanks for all the time and effort you put into this deal.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/17 2:42 am

Yes Thanks for the extra effort Gary !!
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/17 12:40 pm

Thanks fellas. I also have switched gears a little bit. Although vintage bikes are still very prominent here, the current project in this shop is a 1942 WWII carbon arc 60" searchlight. A really big headlight, or as my friends call it, my big flashlight. Anyway, keeping on the subject of the of the Hornets and the Wasp, the "Three Tenors" are at a museum up in the northern part of the state for four months this summer. So, the shop looks like it needs more bikes in it.
Posted By: bodine031

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 07/23/17 3:35 pm

There is a Ford Flat Head guru here in Ocala Fl. Friends call him "Big" His real name is not Mr.Earl but Big Daddy Don Garlits
You can catch him at his Museum Of Drag Racing in Ocala Fl.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/11/17 12:34 am

I'm getting to the point of installing the front end onto my frame...

Got to the point of installing the damper assembly, and I need to ask; the connection to the frame for the steering limit plate, is it just supposed to be a flat bar?
And isn't the plate supposed to go above the flat bar?

My frame seems to have two "fingers" sticking up, 90 degrees from the plane of the bar.... These will not let me mount the plate above the bar.

Help!?
Posted By: VicCyclone

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/11/17 10:37 pm

Sounds like you've got the wrong damper plate. The flat one (same as A10) only fits frames up to 1965. The later one is turned up 90 degrees to match the "fingers"
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/11/17 10:49 pm

None of them are flat. All have bends and curves in them. The correct one has a bolt welded at the back of it. The best view of the proper one is in the '68 Spares Manual, page 48, item 30, part number 68-5185 (anchor plate). The '66/'67 Spares Manual has the old style shown.

And the Friction Washer goes on top of the anchor plate along with the special Spring Washer.
Posted By: Rickman

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/12/17 2:36 am

Thats interesting Vic,
I have one of those for my '69.... and there aren't any fingers, it's a full loop with a slotted hole so the 90 degree plate can be slide adjusted...

Another interesting thing I've found; there are at least 2 different "flat ones"... I have both...

Is that "special spring washer" the 'star' shaped one? Or something I'm still missing?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 08/12/17 12:31 pm

Originally Posted by Rickman
Thats interesting Vic,
I have one of those for my '69.... and there aren't any fingers, it's a full loop with a slotted hole so the 90 degree plate can be slide adjusted...

Another interesting thing I've found; there are at least 2 different "flat ones"... I have both...

Is that "special spring washer" the 'star' shaped one? Or something I'm still missing?


The '69 anchor plate is the same as the '68.

You are still missing something.
Posted By: wadeschields

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 10/12/17 3:52 am

Thanks for the photobucket fix Daryl D .... I can see all the photos again
Posted By: A65_lover

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/20/17 1:13 am

Folks,
I hadn't picked up on post #702485, the left hand side panel on my 1967 West Coast Spitfire has these holes - I had thought that a previous owner had just been creative – was the switches move a common modification or just something that Hornet users did to protect switches from off-road damage?
All the best,
Dave
Posted By: Gary E

Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) - 11/20/17 1:38 am

Not a common modification that I know of. Just something a particular owner decided to do back in the day. The big hole looks to have been for the ignition switch. The changes are not neccessarily done only on Hornets. It could have easily been done to a side cover on any year or model machine.
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