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T65 1973

Posted By: r.bartlett

T65 1973 - 12/02/18 1:12 pm

Chaps,

what's our opinion on this , it looks genuine to my novice eyes
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13k km
reasonable 4k euro's.
Posted By: triton thrasher

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 1:24 pm

Post photos of engine and frame numbers.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 2:10 pm

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Post photos of engine and frame numbers.

I'll request them ..
Posted By: Tracey Spear

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 3:51 pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that someone has built a Tribsa. A Triumph engine in a OIF frame. Cool, but not from the factory.
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 3:57 pm

I have never had "personal contact" with a TR65 but understand that they were supposed to be a lower priced economy model.
As far as I am aware never exported to US.
Hence the European gas tank.
The front brake was the "old" TLS at a time when the front brake had changed over to a disc.
Looks pretty genuine to me.
The only thing that sticks out to me is that as it was an economy model I think I remember that it only had a speedo--no tachometer.
But my memory may be playing tricks--if so I am sure someone will come along and correct me.
But looks to me to be a nice genuine example.
HTH
Posted By: triton thrasher

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 4:30 pm

The factory built a small number of BSA-badged Triumphs after production of BSA A65s stopped.

What’s needed (by those who care) is evidence that the bike pictured isn’t just a Triumph that has had its badges changed by a mischievous owner.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 4:51 pm

The timing cover is missing the triumph triangle tag which is a pointer.

There are a few of these in Spain for some strange reason.

Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 4:53 pm

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
The factory built a small number of BSA-badged Triumphs after production of BSA A65s stopped.

What’s needed (by those who care) is evidence that the bike pictured isn’t just a Triumph that has had its badges changed by a mischievous owner.


what evidence would be required other than engine and frame numbers
Posted By: L.A.B.

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 5:04 pm

Originally Posted by Tridentman
I have never had "personal contact" with a TR65 but understand that they were supposed to be a lower priced economy model.


The TR65 was a different (later) model and was a Triumph badged as a Triumph not a Triumph badged as a BSA as the T65 was.


http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbt...3-bsa-thunderbolt-with-triumph-stampings




Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 5:16 pm

Originally Posted by Tridentman
I have never had "personal contact" with a TR65 but understand that they were supposed to be a lower priced economy model.
As far as I am aware never exported to US.
Hence the European gas tank.
The front brake was the "old" TLS at a time when the front brake had changed over to a disc.
Looks pretty genuine to me.
The only thing that sticks out to me is that as it was an economy model I think I remember that it only had a speedo--no tachometer.
But my memory may be playing tricks--if so I am sure someone will come along and correct me.
But looks to me to be a nice genuine example.
HTH


I believe there are two very similar but different models badged as

T65 BSA
TR65 triumph

I fink :-/
Posted By: triton thrasher

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 5:50 pm

Originally Posted by r.bartlett


I believe there are two very similar but different models badged as

T65 BSA
TR65 triumph

I fink :-/


Nope. Read what LAB wrote in the post above yours.

The TR65 was a 1980s short stroke 650.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 5:59 pm

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
The factory built a small number of BSA-badged Triumphs after production of BSA A65s stopped.

What’s needed (by those who care) is evidence that the bike pictured isn’t just a Triumph that has had its badges changed by a mischievous owner.


what evidence would be required other than engine and frame numbers
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 6:00 pm

Also the ignition switch appears to be in the side cover boss for a twin carb air intake..?
Posted By: Shane in Oz

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 7:33 pm

I don't remember ever seeing one in the flesh, but Kim's double CD set has a copy of the Owner's Handbook, and years ago I saw either a workshop manual or parts manual.
I think the same dealer had a primary chain case and alternator cover plate.

There was certainly a batch sold to the South Australian police, but they were SA police specification. The shots tally with what I remember from the pictures I've seen, but the engine and frame numbers would be needed to be sure.
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 7:38 pm

Sorry guys--my bad.
I plead advancing years and scrambled little grey cells.
Please forget everything I posted in this thread.
Sorry again!
Posted By: L.A.B.

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 7:52 pm

264 are supposed to have been built.

Starting from JH 15101 according to the T65 parts list.

http://www.nationalmotorcyclemuseum...engineframe-no-j-h-15101-burwell2581/777

Something odd about that front engine mounting?
Looks like it could be an attempt to rubber-mount the engine?
The long lower engine mounting bolt also looks as if it could be missing?
Posted By: trevinoz

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 8:27 pm

It looks OK.
It has the 8" front brake from the earlier models, no patent plate and the primary inspection plate which is exclusive to the model.
I own number 135 which I believe to have been a South Australian Police bike.
Posted By: koan58

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 8:38 pm

As far as your pictures show, I see nothing to discredit it being a T65, with just one codicil (which I'll come back to later).

I imagine the T65 as a way to fulfill supply contracts at that most difficult of times (BSA going bust, Triumph struggling desperately) and so in some business sense, a BSA badged Triumph solved an immediate impasse. Cheekily, I'd suggest that to get Triumph motors may have been a relief to some recipients!

This may also have provided Triumph with an opportunity to use some remaining 650 parts, when they were moving to 750. So this machine should be a 650 to be genuine.

650 barrels have 8 fins. The pics may not be good enough to be certain, but I can only count 7 fins. If true, this would indicate a 750 barrel. Worth checking I'd say.

Of course, pics of the engine/frame numbers would be valuable.

Trivially, the tacho is at 90deg and there is no cable connecting it and its drive gearbox.

The TR65 didn't appear until about 10 years later, again a bit of a last gasp, this time for Triumph. It was almost entirely TR7 other than a shorter stroke crank, another fin off the barrel, and the silly cost savings mentioned earlier.

It was a fine machine, only needed EI and a splayed head to make it fly.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 8:53 pm

T65JH15302

frame and engine match apparently
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 8:56 pm

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better pic


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Posted By: triton thrasher

Re: T65 1973 - 12/02/18 9:12 pm

Originally Posted by L.A.B.

Something odd about that front engine mounting?
Looks like it could be an attempt to rubber-mount the engine?
The long lower engine mounting bolt also looks as if it could be missing?


Wonder what they did with the rear mounting?
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/03/18 6:08 pm

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Originally Posted by L.A.B.

Something odd about that front engine mounting?
Looks like it could be an attempt to rubber-mount the engine?
The long lower engine mounting bolt also looks as if it could be missing?


Wonder what they did with the rear mounting.

is that a question or a statement -ie have they done something as I can't see anything untoward?
Posted By: gavin eisler

Re: T65 1973 - 12/03/18 7:13 pm

I think what TT is suggesting is that if it was a "BSA" frame the rear mounts ( and the lower mount) wouldnt work for a triumph motor. Apart from the tank badges its a triumph with the earlier TLS. Badged as a BSA because thats what the customer wanted.
Posted By: Jon W. Whitley

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 1:24 am

Originally Posted by r.bartlett
Chaps,

what's our opinion on this , it looks genuine to my novice eyes

reasonable 4k euro's.



I have no doubt it's genuine as it is well known (at least by some of us) that there were a small amount of Triumphs badged as BSA's for export with the '69-'70 8" TLS front brake mated to the OIF forks. I would scoop this up with a quickness if I were you. wink
Posted By: gavin eisler

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 1:40 am

The earlier TLS brake has wider shoes, a good thing. And it has a sturdier looking front mudguard mounting. Not a bad brew. Plus point for taking the ignition switch off the side panel, thats a pain if you use panniers, I wonder how the switch plays with the air box?

I shouldnt try to second guess TT, maybe he meant something to do with the rubber mount theory?

The BSA script on the strobe cover is a unique item. Same as a Rocket 3?
I dont see why someone would fake all this, looks genuine to me, wonder what the nos are?
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 6:42 am

Originally Posted by gavin eisler
The earlier TLS brake has wider shoes, a good thing. And it has a sturdier looking front mudguard mounting. Not a bad brew. Plus point for taking the ignition switch off the side panel, thats a pain if you use panniers, I wonder how the switch plays with the air box?

I shouldnt try to second guess TT, maybe he meant something to do with the rubber mount theory?

The BSA script on the strobe cover is a unique item. Same as a Rocket 3?
I dont see why someone would fake all this, looks genuine to me, wonder what the nos are?


if you mean frame engine numbers they match and are as above.
Posted By: triton thrasher

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 6:58 am

Originally Posted by r.bartlett
Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Originally Posted by L.A.B.

Something odd about that front engine mounting?
Looks like it could be an attempt to rubber-mount the engine?
The long lower engine mounting bolt also looks as if it could be missing?


Wonder what they did with the rear mounting.

is that a question or a statement -ie have they done something as I can't see anything untoward?


As Gavin says, it’s about the knicker elastic. I suppose it’s a statement that I was wondering about it.

The reason for my wondering was that the front mounting appears to be in a pair of Metalastik bushes, probably meant to allow the the front end of the power unit to oscillate vertically, isolating the frame from engine vibration.

That incurs a requirement for flexible mounting at the rear of the gearbox as well, or you can expect loosening studs and/or broken lugs. A rigid head steady would be ruled out as well, I think.

I know there isn’t much radial movement in a Metalastik that size, but I bet there’s enough to cause problems.

Posted By: gavin eisler

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 11:33 am

"if you mean frame engine numbers they match and are as above."
oops missed that. All kosher then.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 2:45 pm

Originally Posted by trevinoz
It looks OK.
It has the 8" front brake from the earlier models, no patent plate and the primary inspection plate which is exclusive to the model.
I own number 135 which I believe to have been a South Australian Police bike.

does it have a solid front engine mount?
Posted By: tiger_cub

Re: T65 1973 - 12/04/18 11:47 pm

About 500 of these were built from JH15101. The first 265 were built as the BSA T65 and the remainder were bulit as Triumph TR6RVs. I have owned examples of both including an ex SA Police one (they had around 30 although mine wasn't delivered until May 73). Police spec is believed to be single seat and chonometric speedo (no tacho), the ones I owned had speedo and tacho. Other differences as pointed out are the alternator cover, plain timing cover, tank (to fit the BSA badges) and the special bolt to adapt the TLS brake to the alloy forks. It is also possible that the earlier ones used up stocks of the high frames, later ones were low framed, based on the two that I owned. They were sent to many different overseas destinations from Europe, the Middle East to Hong Kong although I believe only a few remained in UK. Trevinoz has a register as do I, although I think his is more complete. I still have an original handbook and parts book for the T65. Get a dating certificate from Triumph Owners Club or VMCC to verify more details.
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