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BSA paint

Posted By: leturner

BSA paint - 01/28/15 1:07 pm

Can anyone out there help me with the paint codes for Mandarin Red and Cherokee Red.The Mandarin Red I think I can come up with.I have an original tank with that color.

Thanks,Guys

Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 01/28/15 2:44 pm

Hi,

Originally Posted by leturner
paint codes
Cherokee Red.

No original paint codes. However, if "Cherokee Red" is a dark red candy, it was also used by Triumph; Don Hutchinson is the US-based expert, he might also be able to help you with "Mandarin Red".

Hth.

Regards,
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 01/28/15 3:24 pm

Not sure if this will be much help, perhaps that 1966 "BSA Lightning Flamboyant Red" will work for you.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 01/28/15 3:38 pm

I can add to that

1970 A65 flamboyant air craft blue. - Peugeot Miami blue EMY53 with silver base ( I used ford moon dust silver)

It would be good to make this a "sticky" topic
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 01/28/15 3:45 pm

1967 BSA "Flamboyant Red" is a translucent "candy" (clear paint tinted red) applied over a metallic silver bas4e coat. The red faded away in the sun, eventually only the silver remained.
I have a faded '67 Lightning tank, so I speak from an example.

Check to see if if the darker candy-color "Cherokee Red" was painted over a GOLD base.

Of "Mandarin Red," I have no ideas.

Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 01/28/15 3:48 pm

I'd imagine the Cherokee red to be something like RGS Dave's A10 restoration (thread) have a mooch on there and I'm sure he will spill the beans on a colour code. It's a neat colour anyway.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 1:08 pm

Cherokee Red is not in that chart that Two Alpha posted. It is a solid color, not candy, not metallic. Used on '67 Hornets and '66/'67 Spitfires. '66 Hornets had the Mandarin Red (orange). I'll be back in a minute with the Cherokee Red formula.

This is the formula that I have posted on the board numerous times over the years.

If you are not picky, Honda San Marino Red is very similar.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: leon bee

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 1:51 pm

Here's what I used for the Mandarin. Matched to an original tank:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:03 pm

Hi Gary,

Originally Posted by Gary E
Cherokee Red
is a solid color, not candy,

Satisfy my curiosity, if you wouldn't mind? There isn't any possibility that Small Heath sprayed a candy tinted lacquer over a White 'ground coat'? This would give an apparently-"solid" look (as opposed to the 'metallic' look when Silver or Gold 'ground coat' is used), but the visible colour would be much 'brighter' than a straight gloss, especially under artificial light, where candy shines (pardon the pun).

Regards,
Posted By: leon bee

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:08 pm

Stuart: These particular colors are matched to gel coat of fibreglass tanks.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:10 pm

I know if you spray enough candy coat layers, you completely loose the candy effect and all it will do is look like a solid colour but it does become a lot ( and I mean from a blood red to bright red) lighter in sunlight. Same happened when I used 2-3 light coats of metalic blue over a silver base, however the outcome was metalic, it just became very light or very dark depending on the daylight.

I can find some examples for both of anyone's interested, but I know it's going off topic. However Gary has supplied the formula for the correct colour ( to the pannels that were painted on a certain day/mix)
Posted By: leon bee

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:16 pm

Glass tanks were not painted.
Posted By: Ed Vanaman

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:30 pm

Does anyone have the formula for the white paint that goes on a 66 Spitfire?
Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 2:31 pm

Hi Leon,

Thanks. :bigt

Regards,
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 5:01 pm

Originally Posted by leon bee
Glass tanks were not painted.


Correct. I should have seperated that sentence.

Out of interest, how is the colour formed when making the gel coat?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 9:01 pm

Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Gary,

Originally Posted by Gary E
Cherokee Red
is a solid color, not candy,

Satisfy my curiosity, if you wouldn't mind? There isn't any possibility that Small Heath sprayed a candy tinted lacquer over a White 'ground coat'? This would give an apparently-"solid" look (as opposed to the 'metallic' look when Silver or Gold 'ground coat' is used), but the visible colour would be much 'brighter' than a straight gloss, especially under artificial light, where candy shines (pardon the pun).

Regards,

Stuart,
Others have probably answered the question. But in any case, the solid colors like Cherokee Red, Mandarin Red (orange), Ivory (like on the Spitfires), etc. are in the gelcoat, (most of this you probaly already know) so the paint/gelcoat) gets sprayed in the mold first, then the chopper gun goes to work spraying the fiberglass. I have never seen any evidence of any other color used, ie white, grey, metallic or other, other than the final color sprayed in the mold after the colored gelcoat was sprayed in.

That should answer Allan's question also.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 9:08 pm

Originally Posted by Ed Vanaman
Does anyone have the formula for the white paint that goes on a 66 Spitfire?

Not sure about the color on the '66. Maybe it is white. I've never color matched it. The '66 (and '67) catalog says Ivory. For the '68 Spitfire it was Ivory. I have the '68 formula if that would do ya.
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 01/31/15 9:17 pm

Leon, what brand name is the paint in the formula you listed?
DuPont, PPG, Ditzler, r what?
Posted By: leon bee

Re: BSA paint - 02/01/15 12:23 am

Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Leon, what brand name is the paint in the formula you listed?
DuPont, PPG, Ditzler, r what?


Dupont. The oval logo didn't show up on my scan.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 02/01/15 9:31 am

Originally Posted by Gary E
Originally Posted by Stuart
Hi Gary,

Originally Posted by Gary E
Cherokee Red
is a solid color, not candy,

Satisfy my curiosity, if you wouldn't mind? There isn't any possibility that Small Heath sprayed a candy tinted lacquer over a White 'ground coat'? This would give an apparently-"solid" look (as opposed to the 'metallic' look when Silver or Gold 'ground coat' is used), but the visible colour would be much 'brighter' than a straight gloss, especially under artificial light, where candy shines (pardon the pun).

Regards,

Stuart,
Others have probably answered the question. But in any case, the solid colors like Cherokee Red, Mandarin Red (orange), Ivory (like on the Spitfires), etc. are in the gelcoat, (most of this you probaly already know) so the paint/gelcoat) gets sprayed in the mold first, then the chopper gun goes to work spraying the fiberglass. I have never seen any evidence of any other color used, ie white, grey, metallic or other, other than the final color sprayed in the mold after the colored gelcoat was sprayed in.

That should answer Allan's question also.


It does and I've learnt something there, thanks.
Posted By: Ed Vanaman

Re: BSA paint - 02/01/15 11:32 pm

Gary,

The Ivory white formula would be helpful.

Ed V
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 9:33 am

Two Alpha, you contributed the first page of a list of USA color matches for BSA.
It appears there is another page or pages.
Would you please post the additional paint color matches?
Posted By: kommando

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 11:09 am

I S, it comes from here

http://bsa.hailwood.com/paint.html

So only one colour missing
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 12:27 pm

Here's the missing color off the bottom of that chart, we really shouldn't be without Sapphire Blue.

[Linked Image]

I'm curious about the color of the 1971 Firebird Scramblers, the parts book only lists Bronze (and Sterling Moss) but any pictures I've seen, including a US brochure, show the Firebird looking somewhat more orange than the bronze of the Lightning.
Anybody recall seeing both sitting side by side in a showroom in 1971?
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 12:35 pm

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 3:47 pm

Two Alpha, THANKS for the information.

As luck will have it, "Sapphire Blue" is a color I need for one of my BSAs.
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 4:28 pm

Is "Sapphire Blue" the same as "Nutley Blue"?
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 4:30 pm

There's a NOS A70 tank on eBay at the moment showing the main part being somewhat orange and for the A70 a very bright orange ( almost like a hi-viz) line.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 8:48 pm

Originally Posted by Tridentman
Is "Sapphire Blue" the same as "Nutley Blue"?

It would seem that they are the same.
The 1962 and 1964 parts books have a code of /088 for Nutley Blue, the 1966 parts book has a code of /88 for Sapphire Blue.



Posted By: Tridentman

Re: BSA paint - 02/10/15 9:48 pm

Thanks Two Alpha.
I well remember late A10s in the day in UK with the "Nutley Blue" color.
Than when I moved to US I realized that I was living about 5 miles from a town called Nutley--which was where the Eastern HQ of BSA were based--and where the name of the color came from--I guess.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 2:32 am

Originally Posted by Allan Gill
There's a NOS A70 tank on eBay at the moment showing the main part being somewhat orange and for the A70 a very bright orange ( almost like a hi-viz) line.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 3:11 am

More like this

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201267146747
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 3:48 am

Originally Posted by Allan Gill

I have some doubts about the description but the various images do show that colour looking like either the Firebird or the Lightning (in the brochure I posted earlier), depending on the angle of the lighting.
With the parts book showing only one bronze for 1971, those two models must be the same colour.
Posted By: r.bartlett

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 4:57 am

Originally Posted by Allan Gill


That tank has a red pin stripe which if NOS has confused me even more..

he also has a green tank and again the stripe is a different shade?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BSA-PETROL-...orcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2edd55111d
Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 5:51 am

Hi guys,

With respect, you're looking at two-dimensional digital images of a three-dimensional curved object that's hardly likely to have been lit professionally for the pictures; also, any image you're seeing varies depending on the quality of the camera used to take it, the quality of its software, the quality of the screen's hardware and software you're looking at, the quality of the visual components of your eye and, finally, how your brain 'sees' a 'colour'. How on earth can you fill up a forum thread waffling about different shades when the advertiser's described both tanks as "nos", which makes them the thick end of half-a-century old, and they obviously haven't been stored carefully during that time? shocked

Regards,
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 10:51 am

Two Alpha and Tridentman:

There was a question about the two BSA colors Blue about a year ago.

The answer is that "Sapphire Blue" and "Nutley Blue" are indeed the same color blue,
This was the color that CATALINA Gold Stars were painted.

However, there is also a color "Dark Blue," and this color was used on CLUBMAN Gold Stars.

Check Gold Star Forum entries, about Feb 15 - 25., 2014. Entry was done by BritTwit.
Pictures of two Gold Star tanks show the two colors, and decal locations.
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 11:41 am

Thanks, Irish, I was thinking of the late 62 A10s which I remember seeing when new in UK and IIRC there is an example on the Haynes A10 manual cover.
But thanks for the confirmation -- useful.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 3:39 pm

Put this together from the various BSA Twin parts books I have copies of, a new line was added whenever there was a variation in code, colour description or application.

Edit: Made some changes to the chart, included paint information from both the twins and singles parts books that I have, tried to minimize repetition due to slight differences in the descriptions.
Definitely not complete as I don't have all the parts books.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 3:42 pm

Here's the rest of it.
Edit: updated per previous post.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 4:51 pm

Good info, Two Alpha, many thanks.
Posted By: Tridentman

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 4:53 pm

Just been looking--can't find there any reference to polychromatic green---the color of my 1960 A7 Shooting Star?
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/11/15 5:28 pm

I don't have the 1960 or 1961 parts books unfortunately.

For 1962, the parts book shows Metallic Green while the brochure/catalogue calls it Polychromatic Green.
Perhaps I can find Polychromatic Green in my Singles parts book copies.

edit: No sign of Polychromatic Green in any of the parts books I have access to.
I do see that Roy Bacon refers to that being the colour of the 1960 Shooting Star in his BSA Twins and Triples book, looks like that model had been the same colour since 1955.
Odds say it is /039 Metallic Green.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 02/12/15 2:15 pm

Originally Posted by Ed Vanaman
Gary,

The Ivory white formula would be helpful.

Ed V

Delayed but not forgotten.

'68 Spitfire Ivory

The stock number on the right side of the label: 626670

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/13/15 7:57 pm

No luck so far finding Cherokee Red in any of the BSA parts books.
The 1967 US catalogue does describe the Spitfire finish as Cherokee Red and Ivory. No doubt much preferred by the advertising department over Peony Red and Ivory.

Cherokee Red finally shows up in a parts book, but it's the 1974 Triumph 750 Twins parts book, for the T140V Bonneville.
Looks like the same colour as the earlier Peony Red, but with the more US friendly name.

Edit: Gary posted some great pics over here showing the Hornet tank colours.

Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 02/13/15 8:34 pm

Hi,

Originally Posted by Two Alpha
Cherokee Red finally shows up in a parts book, but it's the 1974 Triumph 750 Twins parts book, for the T140V Bonneville.
Looks like the same colour as the earlier Peony Red,

But it isn't, Triumph Cherokee Red is most definitely a candy, dark red lacquer over a Gold ground coat according to Don Hutchinson, also done over a Silver ground coat sometimes, and possibly also over a White ground coat on (some?) UK & General Export tanks, which have more White than the small flashes on US-market tanks. It was knowing all that that prompted my question earlier in the thread ... smile

Hth.

Regards,
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/15/15 10:15 am

With the tanks being constructed of completely different material, a different technique was used to achieve a result that "looks like the same colour as the earlier Peony Red".
Colour deliberately chosen as a nod to BSA no doubt.

1974 T140V Cherokee Red

The other bike in the video is a 1973 T140V.
Posted By: leturner

Re: BSA paint - 02/16/15 1:40 pm

Sorry for a late response to some of the replies that I have got.
I have two gas tanks,one is a 65 Hornet and the other is I believe a 66.Both are the same color and they are indeed not painted but the color for both is in the gel coat.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 02/17/15 1:33 pm

Righto. For '65 & '66 (Spitfire Hornet & Hornet) the color is Mandarin Red, which is orange.
Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 02/18/15 11:27 am

Hi,

Originally Posted by Two Alpha
Colour deliberately chosen as a nod to BSA

Ye-ea-ah ... how much do you know about the day-to-day relationship between Meriden and Small Heath? Let's just say the demise of BSA (the Group) wasn't in spite of a harmonious working relationship ... I believe you'll find it was more two fingers than nod ... laughing

Regards,
Posted By: leturner

Re: BSA paint - 02/19/15 11:41 am

OK guys,
This post has got a lot of response's.I needed some help now I'm going to help someone out there,Maybe?
I took one of the Hornet tanks down to the local paint supply stores,(PPG).They used a hand held device that told them what color and how to mix it.Now this is for the Mandarin Red.
I wanted a single stage urethane,under the PPG Omni brand.
This is what they came up with.
Tinting guide:MTK72441 Jaspe the color they called it.
M120 5.3
M111 143.6
M107 84.9
M130 111.2
M117 6.6
MX195 9.6
M149 178.1
Now I have not applied it as yet but it may be a tad on the red side than the orange.I have seen some out there that was really orange.This is more to my liking but may not be to someone else.
Mixed at 4 pt's paint 1pt MH 168 slow hardener and 1 pt MR 186 medium reducer.You may want to use something different on the hardener and reducer in your area.
Cheers,Leroy
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/20/15 12:41 am

Thanks for sharing the info Leroy.
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/20/15 3:49 am

Originally Posted by Stuart
Originally Posted by Two Alpha
Colour deliberately chosen as a nod to BSA
Ye-ea-ah ... how much do you know about the day-to-day relationship between Meriden and Small Heath? Let's just say the demise of BSA (the Group) wasn't in spite of a harmonious working relationship ... I believe you'll find it was more two fingers than nod ... laughing
I'm sure you've sorted out that it would have been Bert Hopwood that approved Cherokee Red for the 1974 T140V, may have even been his idea. It would have been a nod out of respect, not any of that other nonsense. smile
Posted By: Irish Swede

Re: BSA paint - 02/20/15 12:53 pm

Now here I arrive to throw another wrench into the works:

Of the "reds" listed, which one did BSA use to paint the Rocket Threes they raced at Daytona in 1970-71 ?
Posted By: Gary E

Re: BSA paint - 02/22/15 2:40 pm

Originally Posted by leturner
OK guys,
This post has got a lot of response's.I needed some help now I'm going to help someone out there,Maybe?
I took one of the Hornet tanks down to the local paint supply stores,(PPG).They used a hand held device that told them what color and how to mix it.Now this is for the Mandarin Red.
I wanted a single stage urethane,under the PPG Omni brand.
This is what they came up with.
Tinting guide:MTK72441 Jaspe the color they called it.
M120 5.3
M111 143.6
M107 84.9
M130 111.2
M117 6.6
MX195 9.6
M149 178.1
Now I have not applied it as yet but it may be a tad on the red side than the orange.I have seen some out there that was really orange.This is more to my liking but may not be to someone else.
Mixed at 4 pt's paint 1pt MH 168 slow hardener and 1 pt MR 186 medium reducer.You may want to use something different on the hardener and reducer in your area.
Cheers,Leroy

There is definitely a difference between '66 Mandarin Red ('66 Hornet) and '66/'67 Cherokee Red ('66 Spitfire '67 Hornet/Spitfire).

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And between '68 Peony Red ('68 Firebird/'68 Spitfire) and '66/'67 Cherokee Red ('67 Hornet/Spitfire, '66 Spitfire).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Stuart

Re: BSA paint - 02/22/15 4:43 pm

Hi,

Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Of the "reds" listed, which one did BSA use to paint the Rocket Threes they raced at Daytona in 1970-71 ?

None; laughing the only thing "BSA" about the F750 triples was the logos on some of 'em; that and Steve Brown was seconded from Small Heath to Meriden.

All F750 triples (T150- and R3-based), with the production-racing T150's, were prepared in the Meriden Experimental Department under Doug Hele and Les Williams. The R3's were painted Hi-Fi Scarlet & White while the F750 T150's were painted Pacific Blue & White.

Hth.

Regards,
Posted By: Two Alpha

Re: BSA paint - 02/23/15 2:25 pm

Thanks for reposting those images of your tanks here Gary. The one I've quoted below has got me wondering a bit.
The BSA twin parts books show /223 Peony Red, Ivory Panels, Single Gold Line for '66, '67 and '68, they don't show Cherokee Red at all but the two colours in your image are obviously different.
Would it be safe to say then that Cherokee Red equates to Flamboyant Red?
I know the brochures say Cherokee Red, it just seems to me that they would be referring to a colour that is in the parts book at least, albeit with a different name.

Originally Posted by Gary E
And between '68 Peony Red ('68 Firebird/'68 Spitfire) and '66/'67 Cherokee Red ('67 Hornet/Spitfire, '66 Spitfire).

[Linked Image]
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