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A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug

Posted By: Gary E

A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/20/13 11:23 pm

In the US, a source for the sump plate with the drain plug. My search only brings up suppliers in the UK and NZ.

Does Alloy-Tech still have them? I find nothing but a phone number in the search.
Posted By: LeonGustus

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/20/13 11:59 pm

walridge has a finned alloy plate but I don't know if the drain plug is magnetic. leon
Posted By: LeonGustus

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/21/13 12:02 am

they are not U.S. but the kanukians are our brethren, eh?
Posted By: LeonGustus

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/21/13 9:59 pm

kanukians - you know - people what live in Canadia.
Posted By: Crazy

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/22/13 11:09 pm

I went to the local auto shop bought a magnetized sump plug, then got a nut to match. Welded the nut on the inside, centred and drilled a hole through. Hey presto sump plug in sump plate
Posted By: Crazy

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/22/13 11:19 pm

Whoops nut welded on the outside
Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 12:41 am

Dang got here late; you can also get these at Alloy-Tech in Tuscola, Ill. - and the plugs ARE magnetic.

Yeah the nut does have to be on the outside. I had one done like that. The only thing you have to worry about is the sump plate and the nut rusting. I guess you could paint it or something - I just keep a coat of grease on mine.


Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 12:43 am

I find nothing but a phone number in the Alloy-Tech search.
Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 12:47 am

Oops I didn't see the top of the thread first time. Gary, as far as I know Alloy-Tech still carries them. They were always pretty low-tech; I don't think they have a website, I always contacted them by phone.

Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 12:49 am

I stand corrected; they do have a website:

http://www.industrynet.com/listing/1680351/alloy-tech
Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 12:52 am

And again (sorry)... That's not their website. Back to Plan A (the phone).
Posted By: DMadigan

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 5:14 am

Gary, are you looking for one like this?
[Linked Image]
I make these for the triples. The drain plug is my version of the inspection cap but with a raised hex for safety wire. Uses a rare earth magnet epoxied in. Probably does not need the fins but keep the tab for the wire.
Posted By: Adam M.

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 4:33 pm

DM, A65 has a 4 bolts on rectangular shape.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/23/13 5:08 pm

Originally Posted by DMadigan
Gary, are you looking for one like this?...

As Adam has contributed. The A65/A50's are 4 studs in a square shaped sump.
Posted By: DMadigan

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/24/13 1:51 am

Yes, I know. I said it was for the triple. I could make an aluminum sump plate for the A65 with the magnet inspection cap drain plug rather than welding a nut on the existing steel plate.
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/24/13 9:58 pm

I bought a spare sump plate and added the drain. Pep Boys, etal., sell a variety of drain plugs, Loctite a nut on the inside and grind off as much as needed.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/24/13 10:50 pm

How did you get the nut on the inside with the screen as a part of the sump?
Posted By: Lannis

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 12:03 am

Originally Posted by Gary E
How did you get the nut on the inside with the screen as a part of the sump?


He didn't. He said "Whoops, the nut is on the outside" in the next post ....

Lannis
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 12:09 am

Originally Posted by Lannis
He didn't. He said "Whoops, the nut is on the outside" in the next post ....

Lannis

Read the previous post above mine from DavidP.
Posted By: Roger Gulledge

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 1:10 am

Think he should have said.... nut on the inside and grind off as much as needed. to clear the screen.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 3:12 am

The question is still there on how to get the nut on the inside under the screen that is fixed to the sump plate.
Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 3:30 am

I don't see the advantage of putting the nut on the inside, except that it won't rust - but the sump plate will still rust in the weld area. The guy who welded mine (on the outside) TIG'ed it and somehow managed to not un-solder the screen.



Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 4:13 am

If I did the weld nut to the existing sump plate I would just re-plate it. It would be a simple process since the sump plates here have all been previously re-plated. An inside nut would provide a little more road clearance. Maybe a thin nut on the outside would do that a little also. But with an inside nut, some oil would remain in the sump.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/25/13 5:10 pm

A PO brased a nut into my old sump plate,
but ground away most of it so only four and a half turns of thread remained.
I now replaced it by the SRM type aluminium cover which is thicker and has plenty of thread for the plug.
I'm keeping the old one just as I kept the AAU
for someday a next owner, just in case he or she likes it.

Make sure when you replace the thinner steel plate for an aluminium thicker one you replace the studs for longer studs.
The thread is 1/4 in BSW.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 2:44 am

At the risk of beating this to death, I'll make one more case for putting the nut on the outside:

1. If you're going to re-plate, rust is not an issue.
2. The machined face of the nut provides a good mating surface.

I did use a thin nut (I think they call them jamb nuts), although I don't think clearance is an issue - the plug may still be above the framework, and certainly above the sidestand lug and header pipes.

OTOH, unless you're bound and determined to do it yourself, I think you'll find that simply buying an alloy plate will be cheaper in the long run, if you put a dollar value on your time.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 3:56 am

My first choice is an alloy plate already made with a drain plug. Turns out they are not very plentiful in the US.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 8:14 am

Quote
I could make an aluminum sump plate

Quote
they are not very plentiful in the US

Here's market oportinity for you, DMadigan.
Kits with a sump plate, four longer studs, four nyloc nuts, a magnatic drain plug and a nylon ring.
Eleven items for a bargain price, packed on a carton, shrink wrapped...

You owe me for the idea beerchug

Posted By: Rickman

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 11:04 am

Originally Posted by Ger
[quote]
Eleven items for a bargain price, packed on a carton, shrink wrapped...


Priced right, I'd have an order for 6 right now... Maybe 7; 3- A65, and 4- A10.
Maybe another A65....

Wouldn't even need the shrink wrap... Except for maybe part protection?
Posted By: LeonGustus

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 11:55 am

All that for only $49.95 U.S.? I'm in too.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 12:47 pm

Quote
Wouldn't even need the shrink wrap... Except for

Shrink wrapped you can ask at least $2.98 more.
That's called marketing... laughing
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 2:40 pm

I could use five A65/A50's.
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 10:35 pm

Originally Posted by Gary E
How did you get the nut on the inside with the screen as a part of the sump?

The screen on later models is a separate piece. It is not a part of the sump plate.
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 10:37 pm

Originally Posted by Gary E
I could use five A65/A50's.

Great idea, then I could quit mail ordering parts.
At least ONE of them would run perfectly. laughing
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/26/13 10:55 pm

Originally Posted by Mark Z
I don't see the advantage of putting the nut on the inside,

Because I'm a cheap SOB who doesn't own a welder.
If that were not the case, I'd send all my money to SRM.
Posted By: Will S.

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/27/13 3:12 pm

Here's a new Alloy Tech sump plate on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1114-Alloy-...ries&hash=item5d41d51273&vxp=mtr

There use to be a guy on this board in TX named Louis Llano that sold Alloy Tech stuff, I bought a few of these sump plates from him but that was maybe 8 years ago.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/27/13 3:43 pm

Quote
sump plate on Ebay

For 68 USD? sick
A shop here sells them for 30 EU, that's 40 USD, but without the Allen key.
Posted By: Dave T

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/27/13 7:34 pm

Walridge has them on sale at the moment for 37.50 Cdn, but don't be ordering until I get my order in smile
Posted By: LeonGustus

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/28/13 12:02 am

anybody know if the walridge has a magnetic plug
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 07/28/13 12:07 am

I'll be finding out as I ordered 2 of them.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/06/13 12:51 am

Received the oil sump plates today from Walridge. They do not have a magnetic plug nor an oil screen. But they did come with an extra copper washer. They are Wassell made.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: DMadigan

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/06/13 2:39 am

Just put this together:
[Linked Image]
The inspection cap is the same Whitworth thread with safety wire rib that I make for the triples. A rare earth magnet is epoxied into the inside. The sump plate includes a rib to safety wire the cap.
Posted By: Dave T

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/07/13 11:12 pm

Re the Wassel sump plate:

I have a small powerful magnet that I am going to glue onto the bolt. See how that works.

Is the lack of screen a big issue? Seems to me that the magnet should collect any ferrous material that might otherwise have been caught in the screen and the sump is on the return side so if anything get back to the tank it would be "filtered" ha, by the screen in the tank drain plug. Does that make sense? Don't want to bugger things up.

I have not tried to fit it yet, but it seems to me the mounting holes are a lot thicker than the original and I am thinking the studs might not be long enough.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/08/13 1:14 am

Hopefully the glue will withstand 200+ oil temperature.

Lack of a screen may not a big deal, but the magnet won't pickup nonferrous material like aluminum.

The mounting studs will need to be longer.
Posted By: DMadigan

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/08/13 3:30 am

The studs stick out 0.630" on mine. Plenty of length for the plate and nut. You want an integral screen? Could add a step and groove for a snap ring to hold a screen in place without having to seal both screen and plate.
The screen keeps the chunks out of the pump gears.
Posted By: EWebster

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/08/13 4:09 pm

Gary, use a later 71-1126 A65 screen such as this one:

ebay UK screen
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/08/13 5:11 pm

Yes, that is what I had marked down as an item to get along with longer mounting studs.
Posted By: Dave T

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/09/13 11:51 am

Gary, What length of stud are you moving to fit this sump and screen? Do you know any suppliers of studs outside of OEM part numbers?
I just ordered one of the screens as well. I am guessing we will need two gaskets to make sure it is oil tight as well. One either side of the screen.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/09/13 11:57 am

I use one of the eBay screens with my unit, it does also have a magnet in the drain bolt.

It's surprising how much in the way of bits of crud gets caught by the gauze.

The studs used are just Allen bolts Which came with the kit.
Posted By: Dave T

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/09/13 12:52 pm

Alan, Do you find that you need a gasket either side of the screen? Or just the one between the screen and case?
The sump plate I bought did not come with mounting hardware so I need to source either studs or allen bolts. Studs would be better I am thinking? save screwing up the threads in the case?
Posted By: kommando

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/09/13 2:11 pm

I use 2 sump gaskets when I fit the B50 screen to B44's after removing the uncleanable gauze soldered to the sump plate.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/09/13 2:56 pm

Dave,

I haven't measured the needed stud length yet. I will make my own studs; two thread forms mostly likely needed. I will not use cap screws (allen screws). Do not like to be straining the the alloy case threads any more than neccessary. When they wear out, it's heli-coil time while working upside-down on the bottom of the case. And I'll be using 2 gaskets with the seperate screen.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 09/17/13 5:10 pm

Machined two recesses, one on each end, for magnets, so both drain bolts have a magnet at each end. The magnets are N50's so are very strong. Only N52's are stronger. The larger magnet that is inserted in the hex portion of the drain bolt has a rated strength of 6.9 pounds of pull. Mixed up a dab of JB Weld to hold them in place, although just the strength of the magnets is probably enough to keep them in there positions. All a little bit overkill on the strength of the magnets.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Dr Zip

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/21/14 11:53 am

[b][/b][i][/i]Greetings from Miami,
(1) I have read that these after-market finned sump plates with the magnetic drain plugs require some machining to be used on the later (mine is 1971) A65 engines. Is this true and if so, what must be done, or where can we purchase already machined such plates?
(2) Also, where might we purchase such magnetic drain plugs for the central frame oil reservoir drain?
Thanks and ride safely,
Dr. Zip.
>>>--->
Posted By: KC in S.B.

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/21/14 10:51 pm

For those of us without the machining skills or ambition: I have used the small magnets from the Sonicare tooth brush to do this job, They are very strong, and small enough (3/8L X 3/16W) to JB weld on to the end of a plug so that both ends are exposed. This collects crud in a bridge across North to South. Likely would work fine with one end in a drilled hole, and the other end exposed. Most of the stuff I find in my filter is aluminum anyway. Proof the motor is slowly self distructing I guess!!
Posted By: KC in S.B.

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/21/14 10:58 pm

Just read backwards: lack of screen is not a good idea. I was going to do that, and my Old Timer told me that even small bits of ...whatever.... can really jam pump gears, shear the drive worm, no oil, burned motor. I kept the screen.
Posted By: BSA_WM20

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/21/14 11:18 pm

And when you fit it, put it in side ways so the oil drain is on the left or right, not directly in line with the rear wheel.
It will also allow ou to ge a good drain with the bike on the center stand
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 12:38 am

Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
Just read backwards: lack of screen is not a good idea. I was going to do that, and my Old Timer told me that even small bits of ...whatever.... can really jam pump gears, shear the drive worm, no oil, burned motor. I kept the screen.

I have a screen with my after-market sump & drain plug. I used the newer style screen that is stainless. Had to use 2 gaskets when using the seperate screen from the screenless sump.
Posted By: BSA_WM20

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 8:05 am

The purpose of the screen is to protect the scavenge pump.
If it can pass through the screen then it should be able to pass through the pump without damage ( other than general wear ).
For a while the clots jumping on the extended sump band waggon sold them with a very coarse screen, a screen made from punched plate ( totally useless ) or no screen at all.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 8:45 am

Why two magnets?

Does the outside magnet increase the strength of the inside magnet?
If this has been told allready, I missed it.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 10:14 am

Originally Posted by Ger
Why two magnets?

Does the outside magnet increase the strength of the inside magnet?
If this has been told allready, I missed it.

Yes it does, but the outside magnet isn't really neccessary since I ended up utilizing very strong magnets. At the time, I wasn't sure if I wanted to have a magnet on the inside or not, so I made provisions for both locations.

The side benefit is, the drain plug magnets are so strong that they are magnetizing the flywheel turning it into a generator, so now the engine has more horsepower and torque. Plus, the strength of the magnets cause the valves to stay open longer, so even more HP. Plus I've noticed the rotor and stator are working better, so much so, that I keep burning out the headlight bulb, as it is overly bright. Oncoming drivers are complaining. But, a real cure for Lucas lighting systems.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 1:07 pm

Quote
The side benefit is

Somehow the side benefits remind me of that TV-commercial about the miracle lubricant that allows engines to run without oil... grin
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/22/14 6:44 pm

FWIW: With the later engines the studs are unified threads. Longer studs can be found at any real hardware store in the US. Fact is, they don't sell studs as short as the stock ones.
Be sure to use some sort of sealant on the threads into the case.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 08/23/14 5:53 am

2c
Preferred studs have two threads.
A fine thread in the engine casing and a courser thread for the nuts.
That ensures that the stud stays in when you unscrew the nut.

At least that's the theory... As if you all didn't know ...
Posted By: eelmgren

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/23/14 10:00 am

Has anybody tried one of these? It looks good and appears to be about half the price of the others.

http://www.motaoshop.com/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65_66&product_id=123
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/23/14 10:09 am

I have not, but it looks good and if it fits, why not?
Posted By: DMadigan

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/23/14 11:49 am

Ger B, usually the coarse thread is in the aluminum and the fine thread is used on the steel nut. Use Loctite on clean threads if you do not want the stud to unscrew with the nut or use safety wire nuts instead of locknuts.
By the way, why the massive flanges on the aluminum sump plate? The only load is the weight of the oil above it and it is being bolted to a (supposedly) flat surface.
Posted By: Roger Gulledge

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/23/14 8:46 pm

Originally Posted by DMadigan
Ger B,
By the way, why the massive flanges on the aluminum sump plate? The only load is the weight of the oil above it and it is being bolted to a (supposedly) flat surface.


My guess is for cooling of whatever oil sits there before it is picked up by the return.
Posted By: Mark Z

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/23/14 11:14 pm

I figured the thick flange was to give the piece enough rigidity to maintain a flat mating surface.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/24/14 1:14 am

Since most of them are cast items, rather than billet made, I suppose it's easier to leave the whole thing thick to allow for the thick area needed for the center sump.
Posted By: Gary E

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/24/14 1:24 am

Yes, the magnets are so strong in that sump plug that I have a hard time getting off of the seat as my belt buckle is pulled down so hard. And, I can't keep my mouth closed while riding, as the magnets are yanking my jaw down with the teeth fillings.
Posted By: kommando

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/24/14 2:35 pm

Joking aside (and I did enjoy them wink ), if the magnet is near the non return ball in the sump suction tube it can cause wet sumping when running, another reason to keep it well to the side and not in the centre.
Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/24/14 3:47 pm

I have recently bought a billet unit which has the plug in the centre, this was a concern of mine and will be until I can confirm the magnet isn't too strong. However if there are steel fragments breaking off ( or ferrous fragments) then I should be worried. And if it keeps the ball stuck down on the pickup pipe then the magnet will be removed, the cartridge filter should remove that anyway as it will catch any non ferrous materials which will get past the magnet.
Posted By: downhere

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/24/14 5:35 pm

I wouldn't trust any magnet near the pickup pipe. I've seen what happens when that ball gets stuck down on an A10 . He lost his whole tank full of oil into his sump in about two miles.We followed the oil streak on the road back to where it started to spew out of the breather hole. He didn't even notice!
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/25/14 2:29 am

Originally Posted by eelmgren
Has anybody tried one of these? It looks good and appears to be about half the price of the others.

http://www.motaoshop.com/index.php?rt=product/product&path=65_66&product_id=123

Looks good. I have bought the T140 fork caps from them, nice pieces. At least, they didn't crack in the center the first time I tightened the nuts, as some of the 'stock' ones do.
Posted By: Ger B

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/25/14 6:10 am

Quote
I wouldn't trust any magnet near the pickup pipe

An urban legend in my oh so humble opinion, or derived from a Tom and Jerry cartoon?

Quote
it would have to be a very powerful magnet and positioned right under that ball bearing

A magnet capable of that will not fit in a sump plate.
Posted By: DavidP

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/30/14 12:50 am

Originally Posted by Ger B
Quote
I wouldn't trust any magnet near the pickup pipe

An urban legend in my oh so humble opinion, or derived from a Tom and Jerry cartoon?

I don't know, I saw Batman and Robin get stuck to the wall by their utility belts when The Penguin used his super magnet. laughing
Posted By: Semper Gumby

Re: A65 Sump Plate With Drain Plug - 12/30/14 12:49 pm

Doesn't take a strong magnet to have the desired effect (trapping ferrous particles in the oil).
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