Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Welcome to BritBike Forum!
Britbike forum logo
Member Spotlight
C.B.S
C.B.S
Lancaster, California
Posts: 1,296
Joined: February 2014
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 9
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 9
Les wasn't doing hindsight he was working there. And actually testing what I was talking about.

I avoided hindsight. To use hindsight it would be obvious to use a 90degree and make it smooth, and lighter and reduce the dynamic load, and port the head differently and use alloy cylinders, though Nicasil was probably not around so liners like the three. 5speeds they had but what's available now have better ratios. I was just talking about the obvious that was available then, you just think what would be a cool bike, that could have be built then fairly easily with what they already had.

The SS750 Ducati was out around then, but the BSA is smaller and not likely to be less powerful. I think the racing F750 Dukes were about 85hp. Similar to the best 3s. It would have been interesting, but is a what if. Unless the next book has some performance figures or comparisons on the racers. Tony price had a 750 big bore that was pretty dominant I don't think the 3s were up to it.


mark
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,486
Likes: 61
knuckle head
Offline
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,486
Likes: 61
I will get the book, sounds like a good read......From the Triumph point of view.... BSA bought Triumph around 1951. Triumph claimed always to be a profitable company slowly strangled by BSA mismanagement , a familiar story.
When I bought my first bike, a 65 650 BSA in 1972, it was about half the price of a Triumph due to the the bad reliability reputation in the USA...Triumph engine was not better but it's success when modified for Bonneville and drags made it appear better. In the early 70's Jim Rice had a decent run with BSA in flat track.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 225
L
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
L
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 225
just delivered, will start reading soon
regards A

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
B
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
Triumph was bankrupt when Sangster bought it , same as he did with Ariel
And same as he did with Ariel he brought in the "miracle team" of Turner & Hopwood to revamp the range then made the books look really good when he sold Triumph to BSA. Apparently there was a lot of debt carried over from the revamp.
One of the historians quoted a figure like Triumph being worth 1/3 what BSA paid for it.
You of course have to remember the "old boys club" was in it's prime then so if poor old Jack needed a few million to prop up his decrepit estate the why not buy that Triumph thingie off him .
A brand having a popular model does not necessarily make them profitable particularly when they were primarily assembeling them from mostly bought in parts
Volume scale economies work both ways and more than on business has been sent to the wall because a particular product became too popular and they struggled to meet the demand rather than making a sound profit margin.
The story with Daimler was the same and as far as I can tell Lanchester was also bought at a well over valued price and Chitchester Trucks was the same.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,501
Likes: 56
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,501
Likes: 56
One theory about BSA’s post-War acquisitions of companies in various industries is that they wanted to profit from the next big war.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,486
Likes: 61
knuckle head
Offline
knuckle head
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,486
Likes: 61
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Triumph was bankrupt when Sangster bought it , same as he did with Ariel
And same as he did with Ariel he brought in the "miracle team" of Turner & Hopwood to revamp the range then made the books look really good when he sold Triumph to BSA. Apparently there was a lot of debt carried over from the revamp.
One of the historians quoted a figure like Triumph being worth 1/3 what BSA paid for it.
You of course have to remember the "old boys club" was in it's prime then so if poor old Jack needed a few million to prop up his decrepit estate the why not buy that Triumph thingie off him .
A brand having a popular model does not necessarily make them profitable particularly when they were primarily assembeling them from mostly bought in parts
Volume scale economies work both ways and more than on business has been sent to the wall because a particular product became too popular and they struggled to meet the demand rather than making a sound profit margin.
The story with Daimler was the same and as far as I can tell Lanchester was also bought at a well over valued price and Chitchester Trucks was the same.
I've read quite a few books on the Triumph story..They all implied Triumph was always modestly profitable even when sold to BSA.. Sangster bought a struggling Triumph in 1936 and got Turner to improve the product .It was suggested Sangster sold out to aviod the UK's brutal inheritance taxes.....Perhaps I need to look at your sources for a more complete history...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 81
N
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 81
Originally Posted by triton thrasher
One theory about BSA’s post-War acquisitions of companies in various industries is that they wanted to profit from the next big war.

Why not? It didn't do the yanks any harm did it?

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 81
N
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 81
The British inheritance tax is brutal but not as bad as it was,
in 1969 under the great communist/labour government it peaked at
80% i believe. Around the time that most pop stars and the
like headed overseas to avoid the similar income tax rates.

There is no inheritance tax here, i wonder if it would be a good
thing these days, it may inhibit some of the parasitical young
chasing their parents out of their homes etc. Plus it may help
stop the dynastic tendency that enormous wealth builds.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
B
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Triumph was bankrupt when Sangster bought it , same as he did with Ariel
And same as he did with Ariel he brought in the "miracle team" of Turner & Hopwood to revamp the range then made the books look really good when he sold Triumph to BSA. Apparently there was a lot of debt carried over from the revamp.
One of the historians quoted a figure like Triumph being worth 1/3 what BSA paid for it.
You of course have to remember the "old boys club" was in it's prime then so if poor old Jack needed a few million to prop up his decrepit estate the why not buy that Triumph thingie off him .
A brand having a popular model does not necessarily make them profitable particularly when they were primarily assembeling them from mostly bought in parts
Volume scale economies work both ways and more than on business has been sent to the wall because a particular product became too popular and they struggled to meet the demand rather than making a sound profit margin.
The story with Daimler was the same and as far as I can tell Lanchester was also bought at a well over valued price and Chitchester Trucks was the same.
I've read quite a few books on the Triumph story..They all implied Triumph was always modestly profitable even when sold to BSA.. Sangster bought a struggling Triumph in 1936 and got Turner to improve the product .It was suggested Sangster sold out to aviod the UK's brutal inheritance taxes.....Perhaps I need to look at your sources for a more complete history...

Fairly sure it was Koerners or Heatons Phd thesis where that came from.
One has to be a bit careful how one reads books because an author can get sued where as a thesis writer can not because he is not publishing .
All of the period publications hailed Poore as the saviour of the British Motorcycle industry where as in reality he was a ruthless corperate raider who amassed a massive amount of profi at the expense of BSA initally , then the workers co-op and finally milked the British taxpayers for a fortune .
However to say that openly made you the prime target for a massive law suit from a man with no social conscious .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 91
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 91
Getting back to the original topic....

While the postage cost of an individual copy to far flung places in many cases is higher than the price of the book, the author/publisher is a very helpful bloke, and will, at least currently, work out a very good shipping deal for an order of 8 or 10 books.
He has warned that shipping is not particularly fast or reliable at present, so it may be too late to order copies on behalf of your club to arrive by Christmas.

We've placed a primary order for the BSAMCCNSW, and currently have finger crossed regarding shipping times.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 9
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,691
Likes: 9
Can people order them from the club Shane?


mark
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
B
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
Yes
But we won't know the price till they arrive cause DHL have a habit of trying it on with all sorts of phantom fees.
The plan is to distribute till a comercial distributor take it on
We did some thing similar with Bacon, Ryerson & Hopwood .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 49
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 49
I ordered a copy of this as soon as I heard about it here, and have just finished reading it from cover to cover. This is a great book, and well worth the cost, even with shipping to the US!

So much has been written about Triumphs. It’s nice to finally have such a thorough treatment of the BSA unit twin, my first love and still favorite motorcycle.

I was surprised there were no interviews or quotes from Dick Mann. It would have been interesting to get his perspective. Hopefully in Volume 2…


Tim Inks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
B
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,720
Likes: 53
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
Can people order them from the club Shane?

Mark,
The original order has arrived & is at Shanes old place where I currently reside
To order one you need to send an email to the old club domain (bsansw.org.au)
The account name is plates which is what we use for historic conditional registration
drop a line for price & postage as I am trying not to use the forum for advertising and your PM mail box is full


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 24
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 24
Hope this doesn't spoil anyone's surprise...nice shot of Mark and his hot rod on the last page.

Bill E


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 123
Likes: 4
Life Member
Offline
Life Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 123
Likes: 4
A wonderful book. Just starting, but what an amazing accomplishment! When I see something like this I feel so unworthy!

Last edited by Dave Swanson; 12/20/20 4:42 pm.

Dave Swanson
1955 T110
1962 TR6SS
1965 Spitfire Hornet
1967 Bonneville
1974 Norton Commando
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 75
Likes: 4
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 75
Likes: 4
Ordered in the 5th of November.
Posted by Pete on the 6th of November.
Arrived Austin Texas on the 23rd December, if that helps anyone waiting for theirs to arrive.

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 91
S
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 91
Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
Ordered in the 5th of November.
Posted by Pete on the 6th of November.
Arrived Austin Texas on the 23rd December, if that helps anyone waiting for theirs to arrive.
According to Pete, individual books sent by post are taking forever and a day to arrive. Perhaps we were lucky with the larger order sent through DHL, as it didn't take much longer than pre-pandemic.
Anyway, it's very interesting reading, and well worth the wait.

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Allan G, Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






© 1996-2021 britbike.com
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5