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#830639 11/22/20 6:22 pm
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DavidP Offline OP
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So, if you followed my other thread, I got the new lay shaft and needle bearings, etc..
Yesterday I removed the sprocket and replaced the inner lay shaft bearing. All ready to assemble, BUT.
Between the rattle gun to remove the sprocket nut and tapping out the old bearing, I see that some of the rollers in the high-gear bearing are loose.
Despite what the parts catalog says about the bearing and gear being available only as a complete assembly, the only way I'm finding them is as separate parts. Of course, I can't use a new bearing with my old gear, so I must buy both.
I trust there will be no issues installing the new parts. Should the bearing be pressed onto the gear before installation? And, how the heck does one drive the old bearing out?


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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Originally Posted by DavidP
Despite what the parts catalog says about the bearing and gear being available only as a complete assembly, the only way I'm finding them is as separate parts. Of course, I can't use a new bearing with my old gear, so I must buy both.

https://www.classicbritishspares.co...triumph-5-speed-high-gear-roller-bearing
"...Early 1971-1972 5-Speed gearboxes used a different high gear and bearing compared to the 1973 & on models...

...The early 5-Speed high gear and bearing are very hard to find and were always sold together because they should only be used together.
"



Originally Posted by DavidP
And, how the heck does one drive the old bearing out?

http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/1970s/72Triumph_650cc_Twins_Workshop_Manual.pdf
Section D10.

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"Should the bearing be pressed onto the gear before installation? And, how the heck does one drive the old bearing out?" Are you asking about the high gear roller bearing or the two needle bearings? The high gear is a slip fit in the roller bearing since, obvilously, it is pressed into the gearbox case and the gears/shafts put in afterward.
The needle bearings are pressed out with a pilot that engages the outer case. Just push them both out the tooth end.

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DavidP Offline OP
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Thanks,
I already found the two parts at CBS, though I didn't read their tech tip. Most of my reading has been the Vintage Bike article on converting a four-speed box.
Dave, I already replaced the lay shaft bearings. If not for the inner one I had no reason to dismantle the primary and remove the sprocket.
I do have the factory WSM for the '72 T120V. They show a drift for driving out the high gear bearing. However, it doesn't look like there's much showing from inside the gearbox on which to drive except for the rollers themselves.
I presume that the OD of early and late bearings is the same?


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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I took your question about pressing the bearing onto the gear was for the high gear needle bearings. Obviously the roller bearing cannot be a press fit on the high gear since the bearing is pressed into the case from the outside and and the high gear is put into roller bearing from the inside.
Yes, the high gear bearing is pressed out from the inside. With the ball bearing you have the inner race but with the roller there is only the rollers. The case has to be heated.
Both bearings are the same O.D.
To make fitting the high gear into the rollers easier you should make a sleeve that fits over the high gear splines and O.D. of the high gear roller land with a tapered end. Slide it into the rollers from the outside then slide the high gear into the sleeve from the inside and push out the sleeve with the high gear.

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if you heat the cases pretty gently over a wide enough area to prevent warping you can insert and remove the bearing with your fingers.

i recall i warm up the cases and then stick a socket on a halfinch extension and very gently tap the bearing out from the inside. warm the casez and put em back with my fingers.

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DavidP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DMadigan
To make fitting the high gear into the rollers easier you should make a sleeve that fits over the high gear splines and O.D. of the high gear roller land with a tapered end. Slide it into the rollers from the outside then slide the high gear into the sleeve from the inside and push out the sleeve with the high gear.
Another great use for a beer can and tin snips? laughing


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71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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DavidP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kevin
if you heat the cases pretty gently over a wide enough area to prevent warping you can insert and remove the bearing with your fingers.

i recall i warm up the cases and then stick a socket on a halfinch extension and very gently tap the bearing out from the inside. warm the casez and put em back with my fingers.
It wasn't quite that easy, but I got the bearing replaced. I also bought the later high gear to match. Oddly enough, the old bearing was the later RHP used with the early high gear. shocked
Now if I can just get the 4th gear selector to stay in place while I assemble the rest of the gears. I'm using the stickiest grease I got, but the darn thing still flops down out of the quadrant. Doesn't help that the quadrant isn't held in place with a plunger because some bean counter thought that a leaf spring was a good idea.


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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DOPE
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i dont have a leafzpring anymore in mine

i think i used to assemble tbe gearbox in fifth, then slip the inner cover inuntil the spring touched tbe camplate. then pushing it on rolled the camplate into position

been a while though

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With the camplate in the 1st gear position, the 4th gear selector fork pin is sitting on the bottom of the camplate slot, so it won't drop. The manual only says to put into neutral so that none of the dogs are engaged in the gears, but you can still assemble the rest of the gears with a bit of rotation of the shafts, it's not hard. I think what Kevin is refering to is the setting for the indexing of the outer cover once the cluster is all in place, but it is actually easier to do the indexing in 1st as well, as the leaf spring cannot rotate the camplate any further as you push on the outer cover. I'm fortunate, I've only had to do plunger gearboxes!
HTH

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Bruce Miller
aka The Hermit
The Bonnie Ref: https://www.hermit.cc/tmc/om/manual.htm
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DavidP Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TinkererToo
With the camplate in the 1st gear position, the 4th gear selector fork pin is sitting on the bottom of the camplate slot, so it won't drop.
HTH
Thanks, I figured that out looking at the diagrams in the WSM. Unfortunately the weight of the selector is enough to turn the cam plate out of position. One must use one hand to hold the cam plate in first while installing the other gears. Gotta turn the plate just a shade toward neutral to get the 3rd gear peg in, but once that's done 1st is pretty easy. Then shove the rod in quickly and you're finished.
JH's advice on indexing is spot on. Move the cam plate just past first toward neutral and the spring lines up as you shove the cover on. I had only dealt with the leaf spring on a 4-speed before.
Now I must assemble the primary to confirm correct gear selection.


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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DavidP Offline OP
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Took a ride round the neighborhood today. I got all five gears and no false neutrals. laugh laugh laugh


Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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After all the swearing, rage and frustration, when it all works, it's the best feeling in the world.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
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