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#830577 11/22/20 1:44 am
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Mark Z Offline OP
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I don't know if I'll be able to copy/paste this link, but I'll try. It's an article that popped up FB, about a nitro-burning LSR racer based on a Vincent Rapide, which did 182 mph on the Bonneville Salt Flats this year. Ok, here we go:
http://www.bikebound.com/2020/11/20...Ej5yjnispqJ8WK_YJzW39Pm86kgKGEYn_wxER8IY


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Link works fine!!!! WOW, what a WICKED looking race machine that one is....... Thanks for the link!


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
1 '65 XLCH, Hernia Gift, on the way to Japan!
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Mark Z Offline OP
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Yes, I was thinking, it's an interesting counter-punch to those monstrosities with Merlin engines and big V-8's (a la Trevor's commentary in the "damnest thang I ever seen" thread).


Mark Z

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DOPE
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mark, what speed is he aiming for with this build?

right now its only a bit faster than what his alien machine achieved, but appears to have more potential

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knuckle head
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Alp says his 650 Triumph alien makes an estimated 150 HP with aftermarket cases and cylinders. But its never been on a dyno becase nitro fuel engines don't do well on a dyno.
Certainly the Vincent has more potential...As I mentioned before, around 1971 a naked frame nitro Sportser ran 202 Mph. It was rather ordinary looking, I belive it was perhaps 1200-1400 cc's and the salt was likely faster then..
the only dyno power info I have is from a conversation with the tuner of a naked frame 1000 cc Guzzi that held the modified production gas pushrod record, 157 mph..He said it never made more than 85 rwhp, I think he meant at Bonneville air density. And power needed to go faster is like 4 times the speed increase?


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
power needed to go faster is like 4 times the speed increase?
Required extra power goes as the cube of the increased speed so for the same machine to go from, say, 200 mph to 210 mph (5% faster) would require (210/200)3 = 16% more power.

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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
200 mph to 210 mph (5% faster) would require (210/200)3 = 16% more power.

Mathematics....why my dreams of being a fighter pilot never materialized facepalm


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
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1970 BSA A65F 650
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1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


"Every time I listen to AC/DC, so do my neighbors"

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Mark Z Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kevin
mark, what speed is he aiming for with this build?

right now its only a bit faster than what his alien machine achieved, but appears to have more potential

I only know what I read in that article, and I'm by no means an expert on LSR racing (or any sort of racing for that matter). The article said that the Vincent achieved a top speed of 182 mph at Bonneville in 2020. I thought that was phenomenal for a naked frame racer; I had no idea that a naked frame HD had reached 202 (in 1971!).

By the way, in addition to building the necessary power, isn't it also challenging to build a chassis that can achieve that sort of speed and stay on the ground in a straight line?


Mark Z

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DOPE
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very much so. he has had issues not having rear suspension, but keeps building them that way and keeps going faster

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knuckle head
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There is some confusion over Riley's 200 mph Sportster...He is shown on both a naked frame bike and the same bike with a small bikini fairing. He ran 202 with the bikini fairing and 198 naked frame, some say he broke 200 on the naked frame..1600 cc Iron head....in 1970 the first naked frame bike over 200 mph was a dual engine Royal Enfield at like 201 mph....10 minutes later a dual engine Triumph, 750 cc engines, ran 202 mph. I believe these bike were nitro fueled. There are several naked Evo Sportsters running on gas at 190 mph. 1600 cc single engines. There's a number DOHC naked sport bikes over 200....
Alp has to be looking 200 mph for a goal.. Be quite the feat with a 1000 cc pushrod engine..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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just pour in the superfuel.

im very impressed by a builder who can construct a motorcycle engine capable of handling the kind of horsepower that alp's machines develop. thats a stunning achievement.

but doing higher and higher speeds on nitro is not interesting to me. its a different kind of racing. just build it strong, add the rocket fuel, and hang on. i'm much more impressed by his speeds on plain gazoline.

either way, alp's rezurrection of 650 LSR speeds like his are spectacular

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knuckle head
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I'm impressed by the naked frame Guzzi 1000 on gasoline running 157.. Not like it's compact with the cylinders sticking out in the wind.
Nitro is tricky business and can leave engine parts scattered on the racing surface . Alp seems very good at avoiding it...Blowing up that Vincent would be very expensive....
I believe fuel class does not separate methanol fuel from nitromethane? Methanol alone would be good for vintage lumps...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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fuel class is tricky. all it means is non gazoline, and its hard to figure out what people were running in the old records. or now.

what was gordon jennings running in that TT 120 he got up to 142 back in the sixtiez? or rollie free on the vincent in his bathing suit? i dunno, so comparisons are difficult.

one of the guys at my machinist's has a drum of nitromethane and keeps trying to get me to mix it into my fuel.

one thing that alp does superbly that nobody taljs about much is build these things that are exquisitely beautiful. hez a skilled mechanical designer and artist. and the stuff is way more than just functional.

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knuckle head
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Car racers in the early 50's supposedly used no more than 40% nitro and 60% methanol....I suppose the bikes used similar.....After a lot of experience it was 90 % nitro like used now.....There's some really fast speeds from back when...the knowledge for engine breathing was not as sophisicated as today....Makes you wonder what was going on...There was a guy who's name I forget running 150 mph with a naked open class 650 Triumph on gasoline..
Based on the 157 mph Guzzi racer's claim of 82-85 rwhp, those old turds were making some decent HP...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
There was a guy who's name I forget running 150 mph with a naked open class 650 Triumph on gasoline..


what????

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knuckle head
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Alp mentioned him


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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where?

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knuckle head
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Click ! Gary Richards... You on Instagram? Franz and Grub bike shop has a photo of his 149 mph pre unit...Appears to be the old AA class, gas or fuel ??? Try this link. https://www.fagengine.com/blogs/news/triumph-pre-unit-racing-gary-richards


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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nitromethane.

very fast.

you know, the fastest 650cc triumph on gasoline at bonneville is still only 123 mph. that record was zet in 2003

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Well'ard Rocker
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Originally Posted by kevin
nitromethane.

very fast.

you know, the fastest 650cc triumph on gasoline at bonneville is still only 123 mph. that record was zet in 2003

Pshaw, I've heard plenty of guys tell me that they blew off a Sportster running 125 mph on their Triumph, so that can't be right.

130 mph Sportsters, 130 mph Spitfires, 140 mph Yamaha TX500s, 120 mph CB350 Hondas, but that was the old days. These days, if you're not claiming 250 mph on your stretched 'Busa or 1400 Ninja, you're not even in the running on the Bench Race Challenge .... !

Lannis


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knuckle head
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Originally Posted by kevin
nitromethane.

very fast.

you know, the fastest 650cc triumph on gasoline at bonneville is still only 123 mph. that record was zet in 2003
Yeah, damn fast oon a bike that isn't really modified.....Didn't Alp run in the 130's on an altered class bike?


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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DOPE
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131 in VPG is the fastest hes ever gone on a stock frame 650 on gasoline.

139 in AVG on his altered frame alien bike is his only other gasoline reco rd.

his other records are much faster but all in a fuel class. im assuming a nitro blend but i dont know.

kyle and tyl3r malenky both run in the 120s on the salt, kyle at 136 at loring, but their beautiful machines run in altered AVG


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