Classic British SparesKlempf British PartsBaxter CycleBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesSRM EngineeringLucas Classic MotorcycleHepolite PistonsIndustrial tec supply

Upgrade your membership to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Welcome to BritBike Forum!
Britbike forum logo
Member Spotlight
Richard Phillips
Richard Phillips
San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 768
Joined: August 2001
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
K
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
I feel your pain!

Is it possible the threads were damaged when the original bolts were removed?

Anyway, it sounds like you need a new outer cover.
I don’t know the torque setting, but I see no reason why it should be high torque.
The bolts are usually loctited and staked to prevent them coming loose.

I think you can assemble it as a unit or piece by piece.
I usually do it piece by piece, but remember to slather the thrust washer with grease to hold it in place.

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 38
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 38
Originally Posted by Dave Lid
With all parts on the bench is it better to assemble rollers etc and knock the damper unit onto the spline then offer them to the taper and key on the bike,

If refitting clutch, primary chain and engine sprocket all together then personally I'd assemble the clutch first but press rather than "knock".

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
Hi Dave, Sorry for the fight. Triumphs have a way of doing this to us.

I've had many T140 clutches apart. I've found all the center spline is a press fit. Some quite tight.

I don't have a press which works really well. I used to set in a chair with basket on my lap & drive the center out with a suitable pipe or socket. Then I got smart & got some large threaded rod & big flat washers. I use the rod to separate the basket & reinstall the center. I hold rod in vise. I used a old Yamaha 80 clutch basket on back of Triumph's basket during separation. I'll try to email photos tonight.

Regarding the stripped bolts, I'd have to agree with LAB as all I've seen that stripped were from threads damaged on removal from not grinding the swag fully off the 3 bolts. If you drill & tap them with drill press you can helicoil them. Or get new plate. I don't know torque spec. I just tighten them using blue loctite & I always peen end so you must cut or grind length just right. . They will back out if you don't peen them. 1/4-28 Helicoil kit might cost more than new cover.

I get new bolts from ACE Hardware. They sell both the 3 & 6 point. I get the 6 point with the "gold" color finish. I've used these on several hubs to good results. Again always peen the end well.

I've found replacement LF Harris parts fit much looser. Basically a sliding fit which is less desirable. Selective fitting I've found the spline inside the spider is the looser fit, often hub with taper is same dimension as genuine Triumph. Sadly NOS is pretty much not to be found. What is often pushed off as NOS is actually old production LF Harris, not genuine Triumph. Used is 99% worn out.

After costing out the parts I needed I ended up using new LF Harris parts on my clutch. Even though spline isn't a press fit it is still working good after 5k miles.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 38
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 38
Even when a reasonably tight fit, a large bench vice/vise (and various sockets etc. as spacers) for both pressing the clutch apart and reassembling can be adequate and how I'd normally do it.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Thanks guys iv'e managed to source a new outer plate with the damper unit all fixed securely loctite and peened thread ends.Managed to get a nice tight fit with the spline just needs a last pull in with the lay shaft center nut hopefully.This might seems a daft question but which way does the inside chamfer of the thrust washer face i'm thinking bronze face first confused

Thanks Dave


Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
K
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
If its steel one side and bronze the other, the bronze side faces on to the back of the basket.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by koan58
If its steel one side and bronze the other, the bronze side faces on to the back of the basket.


Thanks Koan thumbsup thumbsup


Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Just a little update having re-fitted everything back onto to the bike strangely enough it went better than i expected smile just need to adjust the primary chain oil her up and give it a good thrashing laugh Thinking it's no wonder an awful lot of Brit Bikes ending up in the cut where i live & grew up laughing
Anyhow a massive thanks to you guy's for all the input couldn't have done without it beerchug

Thanks Dave


Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
Funny thing, my friend Dave & I were just talking about the bikes that broke down back in the day. Dealers shut down. All parts were from paper catalogs, sold snail mail. No internet. Tech info was shop manual only. Finding mechanic to fix not easy. This bikes very time consuming to work on so costs of shop time is expensive.
So the bike sat in corner of garage. A year or passes & bike is in the way so it’s moved out beside the house with a canvas thrown over it. Next thing you know years go by. House is sold so owner puts it up for sale. Now it’s a rusted hulk. Scrap man will take for free & it goes to China as scrap metal. Or.., one of us will pick it up cheap. $8000 & and 2000 hours later you have a useable bike worth $5500. Funny how that works.

My business plan is buy high, sell low. 100% success so far.

Seriously if you do all the work correctly you’ll end up with a really nice working bike that will give you a lot of joy. Good to hear you’re making progress.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
3 members like this: Lorenzo, gavin eisler, Nick H
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Prior to replacing the chain case double checking everything to be sure turning the engine with kick start in neutral all seemed fine and sounded ok pulling the clutch lever and engine freed lovely with the lever being very light i felt chuffed with the time iv'e spent on the bleeding thing,Put the casing back on put oil in and thought job well done,kicked it over horrible clank clank clank sound as the clutch hub is turning even when the lever pulled in still sounding but with the clutch free mad Is it possible the three spring nuts could be hitting the inner of the chain case confused with seven plates in the hub the last steel plate is very close at the end of the basket,having to drain oil out tonight might be able to see if there are any witness marks.If got some hair i'd be ripping it out tired

Thanks Dave

Last edited by Dave Lid; 11/14/20 8:20 pm.

Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
Hi Dave, It is possible. Careful exam is in order.
I’ve installed several 7 plate kits. I can say without question the top plate should not stick out farther. In fact most tend to be .030-.050” deeper than original Triumph plates.

As you think the spring nuts quit spinning with lever pulled.

There will be marks as you think if it’s rubbing.

Also remove gasket. Hold cover by hand to motor. Pull lever. Does cover get pushed outwards? Turn motor & try in several places to move spring nuts to different locations.

Refresh my memory. Exactly what 7 plate kit did you get. Most kits come with 1 steel plate. How does it compare with the other plates? You did get a new basket as I recall.

How deep are spring nuts compared to the end of studs?

One thing comes to mind. The crank stud that holds alternator rotor on. Did it come out? It has a long & short threads. The short must go into crank. If long goes into crank, nut will bottom on the center of stud. Takes torque fine, but will not actually pinch the rotor & crank sprocket tight. The rotor can rattle fairly bad & sprocket wear out crank splines.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Hi Dave, It is possible. Careful exam is in order.
I’ve installed several 7 plate kits. I can say without question the top plate should not stick out farther. In fact most tend to be .030-.050” deeper than original Triumph plates.

As you think the spring nuts quit spinning with lever pulled.

There will be marks as you think if it’s rubbing.

Also remove gasket. Hold cover by hand to motor. Pull lever. Does cover get pushed outwards? Turn motor & try in several places to move spring nuts to different locations.

Refresh my memory. Exactly what 7 plate kit did you get. Most kits come with 1 steel plate. How does it compare with the other plates? You did get a new basket as I recall.

How deep are spring nuts compared to the end of studs?

One thing comes to mind. The crank stud that holds alternator rotor on. Did it come out? It has a long & short threads. The short must go into crank. If long goes into crank, nut will bottom on the center of stud. Takes torque fine, but will not actually pinch the rotor & crank sprocket tight. The rotor can rattle fairly bad & sprocket wear out crank splines.
Don

Hi Don i think iv'e cracked it touch wood smile

There were marks on the three ribs on the inside of the casing cover that matched up with the spring nut radius

Because the plates that came out where all within spec and bearing in mind i had got fitted a "81" housing with friction pads bonded to the back face which is scrap bearing face completely shot, having seven steel plates i added one extra bonded plate to make up the seven(bad choice) having bought a new clutch housing basket which is an original 74 part.

Anyhow totally fed up and pi55ed off thinking what the hell everything is virtually brand new on this clutch try it with just six plates as stock and now it's working better than it ever did before it even frees up nicely now but albeit iv'e yet to road test it frown

The crank stud didn't come out and also managed to keep the shim at the back of the crank sprocket in place.
So all in all a few beers tonight me thinks beerchug

Big thanks for all who gave advice

Cheers Dave

Last edited by Dave Lid; 11/15/20 7:24 pm.

Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
K
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 41
“Because the plates that came out where all within spec and bearing in mind i had got fitted a "81" housing with friction pads bonded to the back face which is scrap bearing face completely shot, having seven steel plates i added one extra bonded plate to make up the seven(bad choice) having bought a new clutch housing basket which is an original 74 part.”

Aha! So it’s not a 7-plate setup like suggested.
So the basket you have in there now does/or doesn’t have friction pads on the back of it?
I only ask because if it does have pads there, the first disc must be a plain plate, otherwise a friction plate.
If it is an ordinary basket, the first disc must be a friction plate.
The outermost plate must always be a plain one.

If you are using std Triumph plates, there won’t be room in the basket to add extra plates, as you would need both 1 friction and 1 plain.

Some do add an extra plain plate, but it’s only a silly way to compensate for tired springs and worn plates.

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
T
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
T
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 49
Hi Dave, Ok things are adding up.
These clutches are not very forgiving. Actually nothing is on a Triumph (or most mechanical devices). You cannot cheat physics. Mother Nature does nothing allow it.

I may have mentioned this before but spring tension is not & should not be a crap shoot. With a ‘74 basket 6 friction, 6 steel plates if new genuine triumph would measure very close to 1.400”. Nuts screwed in dome flush with end of studs. That gives correct nominal spring tension.

If the stack is thinner, you need to go deeper with than dome flush to achieve nominal tension. If stack thicker, back nuts off by that amount.

Remember going deeper with a thinner stack doesn’t cause spring binding. It simply results in correct tension, same as would be with new plates.

Using this method on even very worn plates will give correct tension & not slip so long as plates are worn flat & not glazed.

In my experience on T140 if you use 6 cork plates with 650 springs clutch will tend to slip. Your late version clutch would have come with 650 springs from the factory.

Should you experience slip, which I expect you will, I would recommend Aerco 7 plate kit from Bonneville Shop & be done with it. Every time you ride your bike you’ll find it was $$ well spent.

Until all is correct the clutch will never work as it should. The 7 plate kits allow the use of 650 springs. It is what should have been done years ago. Triumph finally did it, but now the aftermarket doesn’t sell correct replacement parts.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 129
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by koan58


Aha! So it’s not a 7-plate setup like suggested.
So the basket you have in there now does/or doesn’t have friction pads on the back of it?
.

Hi Koan yes the new basket i have now is a 74 without the friction pads bonded to the back therefore my first plate in is a friction plate with the last plate against the pressure plate being steel thanks for all your help regarding this i'm really pleased with clutch action now and will try and put some miles on bike and see if any adjustments are needed.

Thanks Dave


Always remember there are 3 kinds of people in this world,those that can count & those that can't.
T140V 1974
GT750 1974
GT550 1974
TL1000 97s
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  John Healy 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Job CycleBritish Cycle SupplyMorries PlaceKlempf British PartsPodtronicVintage MagazineBSA Unit SinglesBritBike SponsorBritish Tools & FastenersBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5