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Looks like this is a popular conversion. Can someone who has done it list out the parts needed please?

I naively thought that so many front end parts were interchangeable, all one needed to do was find
a disc braked front wheel and fork sliders to hold the caliper and Bob was your Uncle. Add the brakeing
bits you needed and a new handlebar set up.

As was pointed out to me, the disc braked front wheel is wider than the conical hub, which means you need
to swap the fork yokes (triple trees) as well.

I want to keep the wire headlight brackets on my A65, to retain the original look. Possible?

Any thoughts about the 'need' to go to twin discs?

Thank you, in advance.

Last edited by S-NJ-W; 10/13/20 3:29 pm. Reason: spelling. brake is tricky.
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Hi

If your planning on playing with modern traffic then you will want to stop as quickly as they do! but that's only my opinion.

My tuppence worth

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Its at times like that the 'bacon slicer' front number plate comes into use..

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I think you noted with mine that I’m using the wire type headlight brackets. You can do this but you’ll need the early T140 top yoke and then modify it to look like the A65 top yoke so some welding and machining required. I’m using the headlight stays off the 5 3/4 headlight which is shaped about right to accommodate for the extra separation from the t140 yokes.


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The only parts that swap are the clocks and headlamp.Springs , damper guts.

You need all the rest, yokes , mudguard , sliders, stanchions, wheel.MC. lines, disc, caliper. Either t140 lamp brackets or Emgo alloy brackets will work, the wider yokes do not have the wire stay mounts.

One disc is enough, I put two on, but its OTT, unnecessary added unsprung mass. Norman Hyde sells bigger discs to fit with an adaptor bracket.
i am still strongly reccommending the end feed and combi ball needle TS main, a plain bush , yeauch. pish idea. Good luck with that.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/13/20 7:11 pm.

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Thanks Gavin.

I have the wheel hub, disc and sliders. Now am looking for the T140 yokes and a mudguard.
Will eyeball the machining needed once I have them. The caliper (and a new disc) I will buy
new from CBS or somewhere like that with pads, etc. I can get the lines custom made.

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For the front end swap. If you use stock T parts its plug and play, no machining . You have the option of MC piston diameters to consider, smaller may be better than stock for a less wooden feel.
Stanchions though similar have different tops , disc types are not tapered , clamped by pinch bolts at the top.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/13/20 7:17 pm.

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Thanks again. WRT the machining, I was responding to Allan G's comment about needing welding and machining to continue to use the BSA wire headlamp brackets. I can decide that on the perceived hassle factor ! smile

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Hi,
Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
thought that so many front end parts were interchangeable,
Nothing is interchangeable between disc and drum front ends ...

(EDIT) ... except clocks, headlamp and handlebar mountings ... smile standard springs and dampers will too but they were pretty crude when new fifty-odd years ago, the better I've suggested below were available forty-odd years ago.

Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
list out the parts needed
http://vintagebikemagazine.com/links/parts-books/, scroll down to "Tri T140-Unit" and basically pick any, depending on the desired look at the top yoke (the major difference here is '73-'78 and '79-on, enter a year with "T140" into your preferred internet search engine for images).

In addition to the parts book forks pages, you'll also need the front brake pages.

Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
want to keep the wire headlight brackets on my A65, to retain the original look.
Originally Posted by Allan G
you’ll need the early T140 top yoke
Allan means the '73-'78 top yoke, also fitted to '73 Series 2 and '74 T150V's.

(EDIT) If you decide against the keeping the '71/'72 wire stays, '73-on Triumph 750 twins had a variety of headlamp mountings:-

. I advise the '82-on brackets and their rubber mountings.

. '73-'78 mounts the ignition switch in the left bracket, looks ugly if it isn't filled; '79-'81 had a left bracket without the ignition switch mounting but they're rocking-horse poo; another gotcha with the pre-'82 brackets is there are "Outer covers" (between the yokes over the stanchions) for 'dry frame' Triumphs that are just a 1/4" taller - give problems refitting the top yoke on an OIF.

Short-cut is simply a complete T140 or TR7RV front end. '78 is the one requiring fewest component changes - it has the top yoke Allan recommends but the better Leakproof seals, although the latter plus their retention rings are widely-available.

Otoh, buying parts separately:-

. Avoid T150V bottom yoke (steering stem too long for the OIF) and springs (too hard for a twin unless you're ... errr ... very heavy ..., T160 dampers (shorter than the others).

. All disc-brake stanchions and sliders are interchangeable, different part numbers notwithstanding.

Updated parts suggestions
Whether buying a complete front end or separate parts, ime consider:-

. Proper fork oil; i.e. not ATF recommended nearly half-a-century ago. I've only ever used Bel-Ray.

. Dampers that work - there are are number of aftermarket, @kommando here on BritBike makes one.

. Updated damper head seals, the standard O-rings cause a lot of stiction. frown

. Progressive springs specifically from Progressive Suspension. I fitted these before aftermarket dampers, wouldn't fit anything else.

. Stainless braided hoses and end fittings. I've been using Goodridge stuff since the early 1980's; what remains of the original AP Lockheed maker is AP Racing; apart from ally calipers and a completely different master cylinder that can be used, they don't make anything that fits these old heaps; another reason I wouldn't use pattern versions of the standard rubber hoses and steel pipes. Goodridge fittings aren't cheap ... but the fittings I bought in the early 1980's looks exactly the same as the fittings I buy now.

. Standard pre-'79 pipework won't take a proper pressure switch to work the stoplamp. Standard pre-'79 stoplamp switch was a collaboration between Heath Robinson and Rube Goldberg on a bender together ...

. Stainless steel master cylinder to screw into the standard mounting. Standard single-disc master is 5/8" ID, I had the originals on my T160's (one bought brand-new) and I have one now on my T100 than I built with a disc-brake front end. Stops the T100 as quick as I've ever wanted; given the grief with 13 mm. ID and 1/2" ID masters posted here and on other old-Britbike forums, I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial bargepole.

Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
Any thoughts about the 'need' to go to twin discs?
I've twin discs on the front of my T160's, but they're 100 lb. heavier than a twin, 120 mph-capable and what I choose for two-up, with luggage, blah.

You can use two standard steel single-disc calipers (one upside-down on the right-hand slider) but most people fit twin ally calipers. As I say, AP Racing does 'em, they're good but spendy, so people buy cheaper from Wassell (who now cast "GIRLING" across theirs ...), dunno if Grimeca still do their Lockheed copies but everything on them has been metricated.

Plus you'll need a right-hand slider, a second disc and I would only ever use the larger 0.7" ID master cylinder ...

Originally Posted by gavin eisler
disc
two
unnecessary added unsprung mass.
(EDIT) If calipers are ally and you use lightened discs (available or standard are easily machined), barely any difference in the unsprung ime.

Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Norman Hyde sells bigger discs to fit with an adaptor bracket.
When my T160's had standard single front discs, even just a reasonably-hard pull on the lever would twist the forks, another reason I fitted twin discs. Imho, if sticking with a single disc, imho a Hyde fork brace might be wise?

About this time, someone posts suggesting a Japanese bike front end ... cool

Hth.

Regards,

Last edited by Stuart; 10/14/20 10:56 am.
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Yes, that helps a lot. Thank you.

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Stuart, interesting report on the 5/8 master cylinder.

I have one of these for my disc front end setup, I opted for the Norman Hyde 12” footing disc conversion which has the adaptor plate and AP Racing calliper. (I have heard things about the Girling items which would not make me want to buy them, whether it be true or false). One of the things that sort of worried/worries me is the size of the master cylinder being too big, there’s been a lot of talk as you say about the smaller cylinder having more feel to them and I was considering using one of those. The “for racing use only” piece on the AP RACING calliper doesn’t give me the best confidence. And After throwing a bike down a Dutch motorway because of a lockup on a TLS in torrential weather, it does make one think. Like John says you want to be able to stop as well or better than the person in front of you. At the same time you also want to have a brake which isn’t like an on/off switch.

Re the hoses, the good ridge ones are excellent. I have them on my lil Honda 4. However I’m using the late brake switch setup on the thunderbolt oif and looking at the venhill make your own style kit for a couple of reasons. A65 bars are inbetween the hose length requirements of those used on the triumph, so the long hose is too long or the short hose is too short for A65 bars. I can also buy various degree angles so the hoses can follow the line of the bars. Because of my location of the switch and instead of using a bolt with a eye for the hose (if you ever need to remove the bolt your kinda stuffed) custom length hoses Are ideal.

There’s 3 sets of pipe work (metal brake pipe) on the T140 with the later style brake switch. 1 is at the calliper end. That still usable and needs a tweak in position if using the 12” setup. Then I’ve found the lower pipe onto the switch is still usable, the top pipe is made to work with the later top yoke. So you’ll (and I will also) need to get a little brake making kit to do that properly. I straightened the pipe out on mine (not a good thing to do as the pipe may crack) but it’s long enough to form an L shape. Ideally you want something with more than one bend in.


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Specifically
My 71 A65 came to me with the disc front end already on it (a major reason I even considered buying it.) I don't know what was done to make it fit. The steering head had tapered roller bearings and I never noticed anything out of normal.
My 72 T120V had the original front end on it, but came with the parts for a disc front end. I was able to install this with little trouble, using new tapered roller bearings.
My 72 T150V came with the original front end. It now has the disc front end from my A65 on it and vice versa (I swapped the springs.) I kept the caged ball bearings on the T150. The comical brake will actually stop the lighter A65.
I had no real trouble swapping the two front ends and I haven't noticed anything loose.
I used Goodrich brake hoses, one piece on the T120 with a banjo bolt brake switch and two piece on the T150. The top section goes to a T connection with a hydraulic brake switch, bottom section to caliper.
BTW: I kept the wire headlight brackets and stupid flat headlight with the comical front end, the other two use "Ceriani" type headlight mounts.
You will also need a new front fender. The disc front end is wider and the fender stays will soon perish if stretched that far. Mine did, so I cut them off and used a T140 fender bridge to mount it.


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Hi Allan,

Originally Posted by Allan G
5/8 master cylinder.
One of the things that sort of worried/worries me is the size of the master cylinder being too big, there’s been a lot of talk as you say about the smaller cylinder having more feel to them
First up, I've never actually tried a working 13 mm./1/2" ID master cylinder and single Lockheed caliper. However, based on other first-hand experience, I've never wanted the cost to find out that other experience is perfectly valid ...

. After I put my first T160 back on the road with twin front calipers and 0.7" ID master cylinder, Mate O'Mine lent me a T160 with twin calipers worked by a 5/8" ID master cylinder. After mine, the experience was horrible, I couldn't get on at all with the enormous lever travel. Given his competence, no reason to believe there was anything wrong with his master cylinder, calipers or set-up.

. Around the same time, I was using a late-1970's Honda "Dream" version as an in-London runabout. These bikes' front brakes had a abysmal reputation for being just average when new and deteriorating rapidly - my bike failed shocked either its first or second MoT because the tester could get the lever back to the 'bars. As you know, standard Honda single-disc master is 14 mm. ID; I replaced it with this Lockheed one - 5/8" (~16 mm.) ID, instant fix. thumbsup Aside, while Honda UK would never acknowledge there was a problem with the Dream front brake, when it was superseded by the Superdream, while the master cylinder remained 14 mm. ID, the caliper piston was smaller ...

. Another Mate O'Mine has been trying to set up twin calipers with a 5/8" ID master cylinder on his T160. He asked my advice before he started, I advised 0.7" ID master cylinder ... after several weeks of no success (in between work), he's decided to take my advice wink (bear in mind he's owned his T160 about as long as I have, started as a fitter but has been a degree-qualified mechanical engineer for several decades, is something very senior in one of the railway companies).

The master-slave cylinder ratios bandied about on t'internet are all very well but they're just opinions - Lockheed were hardly a bunch of unqualified amateurs where hydraulic brakes are concerned ... Bikes have another restriction, in there isn't much lever travel between the length of the rider's fingers and the twistgrip; I'm not saying 13 mm./1/2" ID master cylinders won't suit riders with fingers like ET, they just don't suit me.

Originally Posted by Allan G
“for racing use only” piece on the AP RACING calliper doesn’t give me the best confidence.
AP Lockheed put/s that on because those calipers don't have dust seals (which I think'd fail a modern Type-Approved vehicle?). However, apart from the 36-mm.-OD-piston ally calipers supplied to the Co-op in the early 1980's, none of the calipers Lockheed suppled to any incarnation of Triumph had dust seals. Never heard of any of our old heaps failing a MoT just because calipers didn't have dust seals? smile

Originally Posted by Allan G
After throwing a bike down a Dutch motorway because of a lockup on a TLS in torrential weather,
Like John says you want to be able to stop as well or better than the person in front of you. At the same time you also want to have a brake which isn’t like an on/off switch.
Bear in mind there are more pad material options than there were forty-/fifty-odd years ago - as well as a few "Lockheed" options. both EBC and Ferodo will happily relieve you of your hard-earned for "sintered pads"; the Lockheed-supplied calipers being based on ones the made for original Minis, there are several more options based on "colour" - current favourite among triple owners is Mini "Green Stuff".

Originally Posted by Allan G
hoses, the good ridge ones are excellent.
However I’m using the late brake switch setup on the thunderbolt oif and looking at the venhill make your own style kit for a couple of reasons.
Ime, problem particularly with the Venhill Powerhose is all the ends are female BSP, you have to buy BSP-UNF adaptors to attach the hoses to Lockheed master cylinders and calipers and any of the readily-available pressure switches frown all extra inflexible length when maximum flexibility is necessary; ime thumbsdown

Goodridge's version of Powerhose - BuildALine - has UNF ends but you still need some male-male adapters. However, if you can work spanners and a hacksaw or dremel, wink it's hardly difficult to make your own hoses from Goodridge bits - Goodridge complete catalogue, Assembly Instructions for re-usable 600 Series (PTFE Smooth Bore) Hose & Fittings on page 81 (.pdf page 83), 600 Series Hose & Fittings starts on page 26 (.pdf page 27). Apart from my first lot of hoses for the twin calipers on the first T160 in the early 1980's, I've made all my own plus several for other people, it really is foolproof thumbsup (if Goodridge can sell it in litigious America ...;) )

Originally Posted by Allan G
There’s 3 sets of pipe work (metal brake pipe) on the T140 with the later style brake switch. 1 is at the calliper end.
I’ve found the lower pipe onto the switch is still usable, the top pipe is made to work with the later top yoke. So you’ll (and I will also) need to get a little brake making kit to do that properly. I straightened the pipe out on mine (not a good thing to do as the pipe may crack) but it’s long enough to form an L shape. Ideally you want something with more than one bend in.
Fwiw, I wouldn't bother - fitting twin discs to my first T160 in the early 1980's, I tried to rebending the OIF steel pipes. I failed miserably, wasted a lot of expensive DOT5 brake fluid. Apart from one stainless steel replica pipe between slider bracket and caliper on my T100, I've never used steel pipes again.

My T100 with basically-standard Triumph '73-'78 single-disc front end, standard '79-on pressure switch and T-piece:-

(I tried to link an image hosted on TriumphRat but BritBike won't frown - essentially the standard '79-on tee is attached to the Goodridge hose end poking though a standard '73-on eyebolt.)

... in the bottom through the standard eyebolt is the hose to the caliper, the one in the side is from the master cylinder.

Originally Posted by Allan G
instead of using a bolt with a eye for the hose (if you ever need to remove the bolt your kinda stuffed)
... because both hoses into the tee are flexible, I can simply unscrew the nut on the other side of the yoke and pull out the bolt.

For reasons I won't bore with here, the hose into the side of the tee is only from the bracket on the standard '73-'78 yoke, another hose goes from the yoke to the master cylinder. But it could be just one hose, bypassing the yoke bracket.

Originally Posted by Allan G
3 sets of
metal brake pipe
on the T140 with the later style brake switch.
1 is at the calliper end.
Again, for reasons I won't bore with here, my T100 has the standard slider hose-pipe bracket and a steel pipe to the standard steel caliper; however, it's a replica of the standard pipe and fittings, made in Goodridge stainless "Hardline" by a Goodridge customer company.

However - and especially the faffing around to get a standard pipe into a caliper spaced out for a 12" disc - I never bother with the slider bracket, ime Goodridge hose straight from lower yoke to caliper works without problems.

Hth.

Regards,

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My experience with my Suzuki twin discs. Standard master cylinder was 16mm, the lever was very " wooden", lacked feel and needed a hard squeeze to make a serious retardation. It was very "all or nothing"
I changed to a 14mm cylinder off a later model and the braking was transformed. The effort required was reduced and the feel improved.

It isn't just cylinder to piston ratio though, the lever ratio also has a bearing


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There seems to be 2 types of forks - one with 190cc and one with 230cc in each leg. Which is which?

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I think the forks are the same just different springs and the use of more oil for the heavier 3 cylinder bikes???


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Hi,
Originally Posted by S-NJ-W
There seems to be 2 types of forks - one with 190cc and one with 230cc in each leg. Which is which?
Twins and singles have 190 cc., triples have 230 cc., although the T160 has shorter damper rods and has only 210 cc. Aside, '71 triples started out with 190 cc. also but that was increased to the 230 cc. during '72 iirc.

If you take my advice to fit Progressive Suspension springs, PS recommend oil quantity by height in each leg, so the air space in each leg is the same, so the assistance of the 'air spring' is the same from each leg.

Hth.

Regards,

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Yes, the triples have longer springs and use more oil.
I've also found that I prefer 10W BelRay in my twins and 15W in the Trident.


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years ago I fitted a motoguzzi V50 front fork, MG Calli hub with twin ducati monster disks and brembo's
homemade disk and bearing adaptors, works surprisingly well

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Allan G

Your PM box is full.


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Originally Posted by Gary E
Allan G

Your PM box is full.

Cleared a couple of messages out if you want to try again.


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